Getting a sander on a tight budget

[matt.mackinnon]

I just splurged and got a CT36 & DF500 kit, so sadly there is not much left to spend.  I have a list of things to make more than my arm is long.  Until now, I have used the bargain basement line of tools only to be disappointed with what I could do.

I know that sanding and finishing makes a project, so I am willing to spend some money to get it done right.  Of the projects that I have on my plate to start, I am making a King and Queen sized Mission style bed frame.  Lots of wood to get sanded.

Right now I have a $25 Black & Decker 5" random orbit sander that I bought 12 years ago from walmart.

Realistically, what do I need to budget for sanding equipment?  And what should I look into getting?  I have read many of the posts here, and I can say that my head is spinning with a slight 3mm oscillation.  [eek]

I am stuck with the thought of getting a RTS400 so i can sand up to the edges.  but then I thought of the RO90DX.  But I've been told that the RO150FEQ is the best option for someone who needs a tool to do it all.

HELP, I'm lost.

Matt.

 

[waho6o9]

Welcome to the forum Matt
If possible  purchase the sanders in accordance with your projects. If the bed frames aren't too detailed then the Rotex 150 and the ETS125 EQ would be what I would recommend.
You probably could get by with just the Rotex, and then purchase the ETS125 EQ later. Be advised there is a break in period on the sanders to let the brushes set.
Don't worry you will end up with most of them like everyone else.
Good luck on your choices.  [smile]

 

[JeromeM]

I am stuck with the thought of getting a RTS400 so i can sand up to the edges.  but then I thought of the RO90DX.  But I've been told that the RO150FEQ is the best option for someone who needs a tool to do it all.
HELP, I'm lost.

Matt.

I started with the RO150, then later added the 150/3 and RTS400. You can do your project with the RO150 if you plan it correctly and do most of your sanding before assembly.

If you get a 150 then adding a 125 is not such a smart idea as you need more abrasives. If you have lots of sanders and cash then it's not so important.

I would add a TS55 before adding a second sander.

YMMV

 

[leakyroof]

I vote for an ETS 150/5 mm orbit for large areas and a RO 90 for Delta/Random Orbit/Rotex modes in a smaller footprint for tight/small areas.You can also polish with the RO 90 if you need to along with oiling and waxing if a film finish isn't your thing.

 

[semenza]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

I think part of the answer will be determined by your sander budget.  Don't worry we can help you use all of it.  [big grin]  I concur that you need to buy a sander that will do the projects you plan to do know. More can be added down the road.  As has been mentioned, the corner problem can be greatly reduced by doing most of the sanding before assembly.

I am thinking the  beds will be mostly narrow pieces so maybe the RO90 would be a good all purpose choice at this point.

Also consider using the B & D a little longer if that means you will be able to save  up a little more  to get the sander you really want.

Seth

 

[BJM9818]

First purchase was Rotex 150 5 years ago.  I bought the LS130 for a project nect but really never used it that much. The 1/2 sheet RS2(??forget the model) is really awesome if you have to sand flat surfaces smooth. If I don't need aggressive removal with the RO that is my go to sander.  Just bought the RAs 115 this fall with the discount and it is one mean removal tool.

The others I haven't tried yet so can't comment but I would get the RO125/150 first. If $500 isn't in your budget I would get the RS2 unless all your work calls for smaller sanders.  With 40grit it removes a surprising amount of material.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

Welcome, Matt!

You really cannot go wrong with any of the Festool sanders.  If you plan on buying more than one eventually and you want to save on overall costs, then I would opt for sanders with the same size pad -- Rotex 150/ETS 150 or Rotex 125/ETS 125.  There are a lot of specialty sanders that excel at certain tasks.  If you only plan on getting one, then I would probably go with a Rotex 150 or an ETS 150/5.  If you plan on getting a Rotex and an ETS, then I would opt for a 150/3 instead since the stroke of the Rotex is 5mm.  The Rotex sanders can really do it it all from rough prep stock to polishing and everything in between so if I could only have one, then this is what I would get.  The RO90 is a great little sander, but it would take forever to sand wider panels and you would risk not having a flat surface due to the small head.  This would be a good second sander to add and the delta pad would allow you to get into tight corners.  I really like the half-sheet sander -- the RS2E -- this is the ultimate sander when you want to ensure a smooth, flat surface.  So my recommendation would be Rotex 150, RO90, RS2E, ETS 150/3 and in that order, although if you do not want a Rotex, then get an ETS 150/5 first.  

Scot

 

[Kev]

I wouldn't normally suggest this and it does depend on how cleanly sawn/planed your timber is ... a DTS400 could be a good option for your bed project (is more a finishing sander)

As stated previously by others, your assembly sequence and finishing strategy dictate which sander combination you would need. You may be able to get away with an ET150/3. The RO 150 may be an option ... the RO 90 with the Delta pad could also be ideal.

Just consider if you're going to be sanding into corners (DTS400 idea) and the RO90 is good (The RO 90 also has a Delta extender option that's good for slats, louvres, etc).

Now that I've said DTS400 ... I personally don't own one. My delta sander is a Rupes and having tried the DTS400 at the showroom, the Festool eats the Rupes for breakfast. There are a couple of guys on this forum that rave about the DTS400, so I do believe it's very good (The DTS400 is on my "non urgent" shopping list)

Peek at Festool DTS-400 Review

(Can believe I'm linking to one of the evil Paul Marcel's videos)

 

[matt.mackinnon]

To follow up a bit more..  I guess I should give my non festool shop description.

Having just moved, i pretty much cleaned shop and took the deep plunge.  I didn't see any need for a TSxx as I now own a Grizzly G0623X European style sliding table saw.  This will give me perfect cuts for any large sheet work and breaking down panels.  I also have a 12" jointer with a byrd shelix head, and a 20" planer with a spiral carbide head.  That said, material removal isn't of the biggest need for me.. it's more inline with finishing sanding.

Readling through what has been suggested.  The Rotex line seems to come up with just about everyone.  I am in Canada, so we get the fun of paying a premium for our Festools.  I can get the RO150 for $606, or for a little more get the RO125 + ETS125 for $693.  Another combination option is the RO90 + ETS150 for $773 but that is pushing the budget a bit. (no beer on the weekends for the next 6 months type of thing)  If I got the RO90 + ETS125 then it brings it down to $635.

I know that I could get use out of the RO90 and the delta head.. especially with the bed project.    But it's not like I would be making many of them.. Just 2.    But I have on the list to make a new set of kitchen cabinets, pantry, butlers pantry, 2 built-in wall units, entertainment wall unit, bookshelf, reading knook bench, side tables, kitchen table .... 

With that list in mind, I'd rather buy the right tools now than buy many that never really get used.  I am sure that if I wouldn't regret getting more, it's just hard to really justify.  The one thing that has me interested in the RTS400 is that I also have to finish the basement that included quite a bit of drywall.  Now I have read here on the FOG of contractors using this sander for drywall sanding.  If this will give me a great second purpose for a tool then it's easier to get SHMBO to buy into spending the money.

I know that some of these tools are going up in price in the next few weeks.  If buying now will save $75, that goes a long way towards getting the sandpaper for them.

Matt.

 

[jacko9]

Hello Matt and welcome to the FOG.  If your projects are mainly building furniture then you might not need to power of a Dual Mode Rotex line even though they are great all purpose sanders.

I just upgraded from my 5" Bosch to the EST 125 and I'll probable use both sanders on bare hardwoods, I use the Bosch for rough sanding up to 125 grit and the EST 125 for finish sanding.

I spent a few hours demonstrating the various sanders at my local Festool Dealer and if I didn't have the Bosch at my shop,  I would have purchased the EST 150/3 for my furniture making.  I also spent a fair amount of time trying the RO 90 but, the EST was so smooth with it's 2mm orbital pattern it's perfect for narrow rails and stiles.

 

[Timtool]

I agree with jacko about RO sanders not being the best option for furniture making, it's like going shopping with an 18 wheeler every week in case you couldn't get everything in the car.
They are usefull for polishing though, for that i would recommend the RO 150.

I have 4 festool sanders, one of them does 80% of my sanding and the remaining sanding is spread over two others.
winner: ETS 150/5, if you make clean joints (with your DF500 no prob) and work with jointed/planed wood mostly then look no further, this one does it best.

no2: DTS400, my latest sander addition, but what a revelation! the perfect sander for sanding in between finish coats on assembled furniture.

no3: RO 150 Sometimes it saves my b** when i make blotchy joints, besides that it's main use is polishing oiled surfaces

no4: ETS 125 rarely use it, the DTS is just more practical.

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you're on a budget get the DTS400, one of the cheapest sanders in the line up and very good for general sanding tasks.  It is a great little sander and the one I use most. Since you're building furniture you don't immediately need the power of a larger sander. Try to find one used, that will save you even more.

 

[JPF Woodworking]

Hi Matt,
I can identify with the tight budget and long wish list syndrome. My one and only Festool sander is the ETS125 and I can't say enough about how versatile this little sander is. I have used it so much that I have replaced the sanding pad three times already. My work includes furniture but I also do a lot of light construction work and have been known to sand the edges of pressure treated  lumber (deck handrails) with this sander. Of course it is really all about the type of abrasive you use and again Festool really shines in this department. Although their paper is a bit pricey I find great value in how long it lasts as well as how efficiently it cuts.
My other go to sander is a Porter Cable 4 X 24 which has served me extremely well for many years, poor dust extraction not withstanding. I am planning to purchase a RO150 before the March price increase. My wife actually bought me a RO90 for Christmas but I returned it because of the tight budget and I felt it wasn't as versatile a sander as I need. I have been on the fence between the RO125 and the RO150 but in a test run at Woodcraft I felt the 150 was better balanced. The downside is that it won't share sand paper with the ES125. Good luck in your decision making but my experience is that you really can't go wrong with Festools.

Best Regards, John

 

[fatroman]

Matt,

Unless you are building these pieces from trees that have been dressed by a chainsaw only, you'll be more than fine with the regular non-Rotex sanders. Don't get me wrong, I've got two of them (90 and 125) and if you want to remove paint or another finish, do some polishing, use them to scribe softwoods, eat up some wood in a hurry, etc. they are terrific. But you are looking to save money here and reaching for one of those for what you've listed is getting out the elephant gun to swat the housefly.

The DTS400 is terrific. I got it for exactly those corners you were thinking about and was surprised - no, thrilled - to discover its ability to tackle drywall. Used the 125 and a big 9" round hand sander previously; the DTS was simply so much better that there's no looking back. I'm only working for me, but I've tried it out on a large basement in a rental to repair some rental abuse and to correct the sins of the original installer, and on a few rooms around my house. I'm pretty fussy when it comes to dust and I'll say that you really can work in an occupied room with that setup (with some minimum precautions of course).

If those were my projects and knowing what I know now, I'd think about the DTS400 and one of the ETS150 sanders. I think you'd be in good stead with that pair.

Hope that's helpful.

Best,
Steve

 

[dltflt]

Welcome, Matt!

You really cannot go wrong with any of the Festool sanders.  If you plan on buying more than one eventually and you want to save on overall costs, then I would opt for sanders with the same size pad -- Rotex 150/ETS 150 or Rotex 125/ETS 125.  There are a lot of specialty sanders that excel at certain tasks.  If you only plan on getting one, then I would probably go with a Rotex 150 or an ETS 150/5.  If you plan on getting a Rotex and an ETS, then I would opt for a 150/3 instead since the stroke of the Rotex is 5mm.  The Rotex sanders can really do it it all from rough prep stock to polishing and everything in between so if I could only have one, then this is what I would get.  The RO90 is a great little sander, but it would take forever to sand wider panels and you would risk not having a flat surface due to the small head.  This would be a good second sander to add and the delta pad would allow you to get into tight corners.  I really like the half-sheet sander -- the RS2E -- this is the ultimate sander when you want to ensure a smooth, flat surface.  So my recommendation would be Rotex 150, RO90, RS2E, ETS 150/3 and in that order, although if you do not want a Rotex, then get an ETS 150/5 first.  

Scot

+1 on Scots recommendation.  I got RO150 then the RO90 and recently picked up the ETS 150/3.  I have been wanting to get the RS2E but most of my projects are not that large.

 

[sancho57]

MAtt what is your budget?

Its hard to give you advice with out knowing what you got going on.

I have the RO90 and ETS 150. Does everything I need .

F/F to bed rails/ kitchen cabinets  its covered with those 2.

I dont need anything else

 

[matt.mackinnon]

MAtt what is your budget?

Its hard to give you advice with out knowing what you got going on.

I hate giving fixed numbers.  There is a pile of money in the bank, and it can get spent a whole load of different ways.  I am not getting paid to make any of the projects on the list.  Spending money on tools takes away from materials to get the projects done.  I bought the Domino as I knew it would make many of the projects easier.  I know I need a better method of sanding, and simply just don't understand what the different options bring. 

Sadly located in Canada, we have no REAL Festool dealers who know or understand the product near me.  I am looking to figure out what makes the Festool sanding solution the best.  Why do you need a ETS if you have a Rotex?  Or what does the ETS do that the Rotex can't?    From a consumer point, I need the understanding on why I'm spending the $1300+ on buying two sanders and what it gives me, over a $300 option.

I can see the difference between Festool and my Black & Decker.  It's easy.  But the lines are blurred with points of diminishing return as you seem to spend more money.  That doesn't mean that I can't or won't pay the money, just I want to see the ROI.

Matt

 

[ShawnRussell]

Matt,

The ROI is going to be pretty hard to quantify. First and foremost is the efficiency in sanding since you have a Festool vacuum. The sanders are going to be the hardest to say you are really getting your monies worth. They are no attachments or anything(outside of the vacuum) that makes the sanders part of the larger Festool Ecosystem.

From my experience here is what I bought and why:
I started out with the Rotex 150 because I did a lot of deck sanding and needed fast stock removal. The sander is comfortable and was leaps and bounds over my previous Porter Cable belt sander. It was faster, quieter, easier to handle, and most importantly I could sand for an hour or two and never feel the shakes and tingling sensation you get with cheaper less balanced sanders. I did start to use it for furniture up until I tried the ETS 150/3.

If I were just building furniture and I had large surface areas to cover, this is the sander I would choose first. It is lighter and the smaller stroke I believe gives a better final finish the Rotex 150. BTW, if you go the 125 or 150, stick with that number so you can use the same size sanding paper. I think the ETS is a Cadillac of sanders. It is butter smooth and so quiet. It can do rough stock removal but I prefer the Rotex for doing that. In the end  the Rotex is faster but I think the ETS is a little more refined.

If you are doing a lot of edge sanding, curves, and small rails and stiles, the RO90 would be my first choice. It has all the likes of the sanders above, just smaller and I think it is a perfect meld of the ETS and the Rotex. It is a very aggressive sander yet a very fine sander on a small scale. It is a bonus having the Delta shaped sanding pad.

Now, coming back to ROI... I am a hobbyist so it is hard to measure true ROI. I can not honestly say the Festool will sand faster than others as I have not done any real world testing. In all honest I don't buy Festool for the ROI. I buy Festool for only 3 reason:
1. They are built very well. I have had my Rotex 150 for about 4 years and it is still going strong and when wiped down looks brand new and operationally functions as if it is brand new.
2. The ergonomics and these sanders are just amazing. If you have ever used cheap tools or handles not well designed for a few hours, that alone is worth the price. The sanders are just comfortable. I have some nerve issues and arthritis that I deal with and the Festool sanders are the only ones that don't aggravate my condition after hours of use.
3. Customer service is unlike any other company and how can you beat a 30 day no questions asked. I have never returned a tool and what other company allows you to try out their tools at home and have a great available display in a shop. And the amount of advice and knowledge you get from the board is a double return on investment.
You can always through in the comfort stuff... It is easy and nice to pick up a load of systainers and move them about. Festool has great resale. I like rewarding companies that put excellent engineering into their products...

I would honestly take a few pieces of your project and go to a local Festool dealer and use the tools. I know the 3 retailers near me have allowed me to bring my own pieces in and use their sanders and sandpaper without any issues. See what is gonna work out best for the next few near term projects. In the end, I am not sure you can make a bad decision except for underestimating the size sanding surface you will need.

 

[jacko9]

Matt,  i second what Shawn advises and I only selected the EST 125 over the EST 150/3 because of the smooth controlled feeling on mostly semi-finished pieces.  Sometime in the next two weeks, I'm going to either trade my EST 125 for a EST 150/3 OR keep my EST 125 and buy the EST 150.  The biggest help I had in making my decision after getting advice on here was to go the dealer with my work pieces and try the different sanders.

 

[semenza]

Matt, I forgot to mention in my first post that every sander Festool makes will be recommended.  That's because we all have different first experiences, other  tools and sanders,  and differing uses. You will really need to sort out the recommendations based on comparing your needs with the advice given in this thread. Have fun  ??? 

Also remember you have 30 days to see if it does the job for you.

You mentioned possibly getting two. One combo you are thinking about is the RO90 and ETS125. If you going that route , I suggest  the RO90 is better paired with  an ETS150 for your furniture needs. That gives you small and large instead of small and medium. Throw in the RO90s versatility (delta pad) and you will be able to pretty much everything easily.  Since you would only need the RO90 for the beds, you could get that one first and spread the spending over a bit of time.

Seth