Getting Set-Up

[FestMax]

Hi,
This is my first post so I would appreciate a little of the collective wisdom embodied here.
I am a hobbyist woodworker at best. I actually am an avid motorcyclist but given the recent birth of my second baby in two years have decided to sell all the bikes and spend more time around the house working on projects all my family can enjoy. I expect this will include some furniture - tables, benches, cabinets for adults and little people as well as plans to build a new house and in particular doors and garage/carriage style doors. I have been researching plenty on the merits, quality and value of Festool and given the proceeds from the bike sales I am considering the following.  My preference is hardwoods and 4/4 to 8/4 sizes with the sheet panels as needed. I'd welcome any input on what works or doesn't work system-wise or accessory-wise. Many thanks in advance.

1) TS 75 and MFT/3 package - 75in guide rail. I like the bigger size to handle the thicker woods for the doors. Do I need a finer blade for sheet goods? Can I upgrade this guiderail to LR32?
2) 118in guide rail - Long cuts and everything in between. Thinking of adding a second MFT/3 table?
3) Cross members for table. Connectors for second table.
4) Assortment of screw, ratcheting and rapid clamps and clamping element
5) Domino XL Joiner Set - Looks like the best system for joining. Candidly this was the original attraction to Festool.
6) Seneca Adapter - Allow smaller 4/5/6 mm cutters with XL
7) Assorted Domino Beech Tenons and Cutters in Systainer
8) Domino XL 8/10mm tenon in Systainer
9) Domino XL Sipo Tenon Rods for exterior items

Am I missing anything that's glaring or including something that may not be necessary. I live in Hawaii so I am trying to "economize" on sales tax and shipping with one shipment.

 

[FestMax]

I forgot to add.
I already have a Fein Turbo II which I am very happy with. Quiet with Auto-Start. I may need an adaptor or two to connect to Festool hose.
I was planning to use this and forego the Festool Dust Extractors. One less vacuum in the garage.

 

[Kev]

[welcome]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the kit you described.

Not certain what lengths you can get LR32 rails over there, but having one in the mix is good forward thinking.

You'll see KAPEX, routers, planers and sanders marching in the door before you realise what's going on [wink] [big grin]

Kev

 

[shed9]

Welcome  [smile] (although I am very new as well)

Good kit list in my opinion - as for my own feedback on the listed selection;

> A good dealer should be able to change the standard rails in a package deal for the LR32 derivatives.
> Given your situation and intent on working on large pieces, I agree that a second MFT/3 would be a good investment, you can get a full setup and a second basic unit (without all the fence and rail parts).
> Bessey would be a good investment for clamps, bit pricey but like Festool you get what you pay for.
> The XL / Seneca combo is a good choice - can't see any issues there.

The only thing I would add at this stage would be;

Kapex
I suspect you will lust after a Kapex eventually and as you say you are going to be stung by tax and shipping per order. Appreciate you may have a slider already, but the dust collection on the Kapex is superb and that alone is worth the cost for me.

CT vac
They come as standard with anti-static hoses (which help a lot) and you could always sell on the Fein. I appreciate the specs of the Fein comparative to a CT are not dissimilar however I've seen the mess caused by the filter cleaning and emptying of the bucket and in my opinion it defies the point of capturing dust only to let most of it out when you empty it. Wood dust is a serious health concern.

Sanders
I would definitely add some sanders to the list - a Rotex (or two), an ETS and perhaps some others (RTS, DTS, etc) should be on that list. I went with an Ro90. Ro150 and an ETS150/3 and it works as a good all rounder for me. get a few Systainer abrasives packages if you can (others will advise on this one).  

CXS
For the cost this tool is a no brainer for me.

Systainers
Consider a couple of Systainers for storage.

 

[shed9]

[welcome]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the kit you described.

Not certain what lengths you can get LR32 rails over there, but having one in the mix is good forward thinking.

You'll see KAPEX, routers, planers and sanders marching in the door before you realise what's going on [wink] [big grin]

Kev

Completely forgot about routers - how did that happen.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Festool LR32 'Holy' Guide rails are currently only available in 1400mm (55") and 2424mm (95"). Unfortunately a 55" rail is too short to efficiently make a 48" cut using a TS75.

So probably the best plan is to wait until you actually need to get into the LR32 business before buying a 1400mm Holy rail, or two of them and a pair of couplers.

 

[Stone Message]

I agree with Shed9. Also...

I find the MFT3 invaluable but rather than get a second one I have built a mobile bench at the same height (I have made a couple of videos about it which should be here on the FOG). It has the advantage of being just a dash bigger than the MFT3, is very stable when the castor wheels are locked (you can do hand planning with no problem at all) and it has drawers and space for systainers.

If needed I will find a link to the video for you. I also give away the plans free of charge.

Peter

 

[RC]

If you plan on doing Euro style cabinets with 32mm system hardware then maybe a OF1400 router with a 1400mm holy rail would be good allrounder for a router or since you're in the US you might want to look at the CMS-OF set available which to my understanding comes with the 1400 router and the CMS router to table router conversion bit of kit. Don't know if there are any package deals available around the CMS. Maybe one day you will be able to purchase the CMS-TS75 insert for the CMS in the US as well and get a table saw out of it too. You don't need the MFT3 table joining connectors before you get your second table so I wouldn't purchase them yet.

I also second a sander or two... I've done well with just a RO90 + ETS150/3 for my sanding. I build most of my stuff from planed wood so the grunt of an RO150 hasn't been needed yet.

Outside of the Festool ecosystem I would suggest getting a good quality jointer/thicknesser if you don't already have one to have freedom of material thickness and can purchase rough lumber and process it yourself. If you have the space a bandsaw might be a good investment too. (wish I had space for these two myself)

The two least favorite Festool things I've acquired are the Surfix finishing set (used it once, fell back to normal wipe-on finishing oils) and the Carvex jigsaws (the 420 is ok, but not mindblowingly good and many still seem to have problems with the circle cutting unit)

 

[peter halle]

Welcome to the FOG!  You have done a lot of thinking and research.  Regarding swapping out rails you could ask a dealer to swap out the 75 inch rail for the 95" LR32 rail.  I suspect that isn't a common request but because you will be paying more I suspect it will be possible.  But, unless you had immediate plans for buying and using the LR-32 including the kit and a router then I would suggest that you consider a sander that is multi- purpose such as one of the Rotexes.  Every project will need to be sanded versus need a router or shelf pin holes.

Peter

 

[BMH]

I gave up my bike when I came back to the USA and got married. 20 years of 365 days a year in Europe a real blast.

I would change your priorities a little.
-Measuring and layout tools: if you go metric the festool measuring tape. Woodpecker large square is a must for proper set up of the MFT and for general layout. A straight edge ruler is also mandatory. By sticking with Woodpecker for most of it you will make sure that all of measurement tools have the same reference points.
-TS 75 and 1 MFT3 great combo, you will also need a selection of clamps
-Rails FS3000 and LR32 55"
-Router 1400 most important tool in a shop. Buy the parallel guides and a selection of whiteside 1/2 shank router bits.
-Domino XL or 500 depending on your future projects
-Sanders depends on what type of projects, I started with one and ended up with 6 that get regular use
and a festool midi/mini. I have a three vaccuums one fein and two festools. Fein is great but using the adapter with the smaller sanders is a pain and you need variable suction on it. Sand paper I would stick with granat and rubin.
-CXS and centrotex kit

Secondary:
-Kapex with UG stand or make your own miter station. I use the UG stand wings on my MFT3 and the CMS all the time.
-Router table, the CMS is great
-Keep your eyes open for clamps on Ebay or Craigslist.
-My favorite non festool tool is my Grex 23 nail gun
-Jigsaw I have the Festool Trion. I don't know where to place it on this list but I use it a lot. Framed a whole deck using exclusively.

I would suggest you built either a mobile work bench or a fix workbench. Peter Parfitt or Timothy Wilmots are good example of each. The important part is to keep all of your work surfaces and cabinetry the same height.

 

[Stone Message]

Thank you BMH. I have found the Mobile Bench thread:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/mobile-bench-project/msg318404/?topicseen#msg318404

Peter

 

[Paul G]

My preference is hardwoods and 4/4 to 8/4 sizes with the sheet panels as needed.

Am I missing anything that's glaring

Welcome!

You'll be tackling sheet goods well but for the rough lumber you will probably be wanting a jointer, planer and bandsaw to true up and resaw your materials. And I wouldn't be surprised if you would like a table saw also, all of this assumes you have the space to accomodate some larger equipment.

 

[FestMax]

All - thanks so much for the advice and tips which is so valued on this forum.

A couple of follow-up questions:
1) What's the consensus on comparable blades for the TS75 to match the cut quality of the TS55? Setting aside cost (gulp), there's a balance between tooth count and motor speed. Which blades would one recommend for finish cuts versus rip cuts? Are cuts comparable for sheet goods for example with the two sides and the appropriate blades. I also recall somewhere that the tooth orientation maybe different between the two or perhaps the tooth orientation is different from a table saw or miter. I think the way the wood is thrown off the blade is the difference.
2) I really have little experience/knowledge with Festool sanders and routers.
I do own a Bosch palm router and have a number of Porter Cable orbitals (the old kind before they went Chinese and sold out) and a specialty corner sander. Is there an all purpose model for each? The overlap is unclear to me.
3) I'm amazed at the cost of the cordless drills. I've had Bosch cordless and they have performed very well. Apart from the Festool system mantra, is there performance characteristics of these drills that distinguish their capabilities from the rest of the pack?

Regards and thanks in advance

 

[Kev]

All - thanks so much for the advice and tips which is so valued on this forum.

A couple of follow-up questions:
1) What's the consensus on comparable blades for the TS75 to match the cut quality of the TS55? Setting aside cost (gulp), there's a balance between tooth count and motor speed. Which blades would one recommend for finish cuts versus rip cuts? Are cuts comparable for sheet goods for example with the two sides and the appropriate blades. I also recall somewhere that the tooth orientation maybe different between the two or perhaps the tooth orientation is different from a table saw or miter. I think the way the wood is thrown off the blade is the difference.
2) I really have little experience/knowledge with Festool sanders and routers.
I do own a Bosch palm router and have a number of Porter Cable orbitals (the old kind before they went Chinese and sold out) and a specialty corner sander. Is there an all purpose model for each? The overlap is unclear to me.
3) I'm amazed at the cost of the cordless drills. I've had Bosch cordless and they have performed very well. Apart from the Festool system mantra, is there performance characteristics of these drills that distinguish their capabilities from the rest of the pack?

Regards and thanks in advance

1. 52 tooth is fine ... you could easily buy 6 blades if you wanted to get use specific. Use the blade it comes with or a Panther for rip and cross ... the 52 (or fork for the 60) for anything with glue in it (veneered)

2. Buy them all, but start with a DTS400 and ETS150/3 if it's mainly finished timber and sheet. RO 90 & 140 if you making outdoor furniture, etc.

3. Only try the drills and Centrotec if you're brave enough to continue investing - there's no going back after you smoke crack try Festool cordless drills.

 

[RC]

And getting the CXS type of smoke ^H^H^H^H^H^H drill for the little money it goes for you are hooked...

I went CXS -> Ti15 -> PDC 18 XL Set in just under a year... And I had a reasonably good Panasonic drill to start with  [embarassed]

Though in all honesty all you really need is a CXS for anything inside the house and the others have uses more on heavy stuff with screws and bolts of 150mm+ and large diametre drills and hole saws of 15mm+ like Forstners that the CXS won't handle. I just got carried away  [tongue]

 

[FestMax]

Thanks again.
i really like my Fein as well. Roll seasily and pretty quiet for what it does. I'm not sure why they can't design it with a more useful shape.

Anyhow, is a dust deputy something worth considering in all this?

 

[dpetrzelka]

If you plan to add some sanders an RO90 paired with a ETS150 can cover a lot of ground - the abrasive syatiners are very nice for keeping everything together.

 

[Kev]

Thanks again.
i really like my Fein as well. Roll seasily and pretty quiet for what it does. I'm not sure why they can't design it with a more useful shape.

Anyhow, is a dust deputy something worth considering in all this?

You'll get mixed responses on this. Some have has static buildup issues due to incomplete earthing - this has resulted in damaging electronics in vacs in severe cases.

I'm not a personal fan of them, some will swear by them. Brand aside, for me a cyclone is quite a clumsy thing.

 

[wow]

Not sure how I missed your original post, but  [welcome] to the FOG!

I have the TS75 and love it. I bought both the 55" and the 95" Holey Rails. I actually had my dealer substitute the 95" Holey Rail for the standard 75" rail that cam with the TS75, i.e. I don't have a 75" rail. SO far I haven't missed it! I also have the 118" guide rail, which you will need for doing full-length cuts on sheet goods or lumber 8-9' long.

As others have said, you need a router. I bought the OF1010 because it's a perfect match to the LR32 system. You can, of course, go with the OF1400 for maximum versatility but at the cost of significantly greater weight. I have a PorterCable 7539 for big bits, so I am happy with my choice.

As others have said, go with the Bessey K-body clamps if you can afford them. They make square assemblies MUCH easier. You won't regret buying them.

Otherwise your list looks like a good start. You DO know that Systainers and Festool items are related to tribbles, right?

[big grin]