Going metric: Where do you USAnians buy measuring devices?

D

Dan Lyke

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
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321
It's easy to make fun of the metric system, to ask why we should give up something God gave the English for a system invented by a Frenchman, to wonder why anyone thought that base 10 was a good idea when, as computers take over the world, clearly base 2 fractional systems are both far superior for both computation and human perception ("split the difference", "so that's .4375 of a...") , however, sometimes, no matter how bad the idea, the fact that so many other people have adopted it means that I've got to get competent in it (*cough*Microsoft*cough*).

This weekend we went by our local (Santa Rosa, northern California) Woodcraft and picked up a dual scale tape measure, a set of digital tri-mode calipers (which appear to be accurate only to 0.00196850394 of an inch, so I'll be sticking to my vernier calipers for stuff that matters), and a block of 50.8mm thick cherry, but when I got back and started working I realized that the dual scale tape measure is only useful on one side, which is okay for carpentry, not so good for woodworking, and that I still don't have a good small metric rule that works in human scales (my 6" steel rule is marked in 1/64" gradations, my 152.4 millimeter rule is marked in millimeter gradations).

So: If you live in the United States and have made the switch to metric, do you mail order all of your measuring tools, or, what's the trick for finding a source for good metric measuring devices? Everything I'm finding at the usual hardware stores or woodworking places seems to be fraught with compromises that make them not nearly as useful as their Imperial equivalents. I want a ruler marked with ¼mm (errr... excuse me... .25mm) gradations, a metric tape measure that has metric ticks on both sides, a good metric combo square would be nice too, and I could mail order these things, but I know I'll be missing tools, so I'd much rather find the local vendor who carries such things.

 
Dan--

Dan Lyke said:
...I'd much rather find the local vendor who carries such things....
Click to expand...

Sorry, that's unlikely.  I think Japan Woodworker might have some.  Neat store anyway.

I want a ruler marked with ...(errr... excuse me... .25mm) gradations, a metric tape measure that has metric ticks on both sides, a good metric combo square would be nice too...
Click to expand...

In general the smallest increment on a metric rule is 0.5mm.  The Incra metrics have 0.25 holes.

Incra has some useful dual-reading stuff.  Woodpeckers.  They're buried, but they're there.  Incidentally, Incra makes replacement metric racks for their fences.

I have a 24" dual-reading bench rule from Bridge City Tools and one of their triangular rules (like a drafting scale).  The bench rule is extremely useful, the triangular one is easy to read but never seems to have the right scale where I need it.

Metric-only tapes can be got from McMaster.  Check them for combo squares, too.

Oregon Rule is an excellent source for adhesive ruler tape, metric or dual, L to R or R to L.

Ned

 
Dan,

For the tape measure, take a look at the FastCap "PMMR-True32".  It's metric on both sides.  Here's a pic and description:http://www.richelieu.com/produit/detail.php?fr=pgr&no=916532.  Here's the FastCap site:http://www.fastcap.com/products.aspx?id=346. 

One note, for metric get the "PMMR-True32" only (blue sides with "True32" logo). 

Do NOT get the "PMM-R" (red sides).    The measure tics on the "PMM-R" red-sided model do not go to the edge so you'll get parallax errors.  When I complained about this to FastCap, they gave me a marketing-hype answer that the spaces were so you could use it as a story stick.  That's a dumb design because there's not enough room to write anything in that tiny space.  Overall the "PMM-R" (red sides) model is a very poor design, IMO.

Also, in their infinite wisdom, FastCap chose NOT to post pics of "PMMR-True32" on their website.  The link to Richelieu Hardware is the only valid pic that I could find.

Regards,

Dan.
 
Starrett my friend.  They make measurement devices primarily for machinists, yet also have woodworkers layout tools.
We don't do metric here, we really don't.  We fake it ::).  A Frenchman you say, I knew it!
Seriously,  My squares are all Starrett, as are my straight edges & rules.  For tape measures, find one brand & stick with it.  I buy Stanley 16' & 25'.  Oh, & don't imagine they are perfect.  These are not atomic clocks.  Hold one aginst the other & you'll see them out of alignment a slight bit 10' or so away.  This is why I say stick with one throught a project where it matters.  
 As far as the back & forth with metric.  I keep two formulas on my shop wall, next to Pathagarus  :D.  
They are:

 MM to Inches = mm divided by 25.4
 Inches to MM = inches multiplied by 0.03937
 
 If I need to measure 5,391 mm (for some godforsaken reason), it's 212.2441" or 212 1/4"
 Reversed & 75 1/8" = 75.125" X 0.03937 & would be 1908.175 mm

Here's the thing, I keep a calculator in my shop which works in fractions for the conversion from decimals.  That way I don't hurt my brain :D.  It'll even do the english to Metric conversion & visa versa.  But I write the formulas on the wall.
BTW 1 inch = 25.4 mm

As for the fractional math.  I won't change nor believe their is a better method of measurement in the use of metric for me.  It's like other languages to me & I must deal with it, but not change to it.  
 Machines come into my shop, (see Festool), with metric scales & it's makes it harder for me, but it works.
 
You all will hurt yourself trying to pronounce that!

I think the term is Americans, or Americanians. Yeah that's it Americanians, no wait, or was it.  OW OW OW, See I hurt myself!
 
I believe the Canadians are Metric, they're north Americans, and I'm not sure what rules in various Central and South American countries, but the U.S. isn't all of America, just some of it.
 
Technically that's correct,
  Yet it's the rest of the world who refers to us here in the USA as Americans & our neighbors to the north as Canadiens.  Maybe I'm wrong here but when the British say "Bloody Americans" does it include Canadiens as well?  ??? :D
 
We Canadians are a mess.

We drive metric (Km's and Km per hour). Their are actually signs when you cross from the US into Canada explaining to Americans that 100Km/hr is equal to 65 MPH and not 100MPH so you American's don't get that mixed up  ;D

We use the imperial tape measures for the most part and I remember talking to Bob Marino when I bought my TS-55 asking about imperial measurements and he said I'd get over it and learn the new system. You know what, metric is way easier once you get used to it or at least i think it is

Dan Clermont
 
That may be, but I recall my mother trying to help me learn Metric in the 70's during our failed conversion attempt, here in the states.  That & what they called new math at the time.
  Anyway, I was young but had already learned about fractions in school.  It sounds stupid now, but the fractions were easy to pick up, because I loved pies.  Pizza, apple, pumpkin....... could all be used to teach fractions, ya dig.
  1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 5/8's.  These were all obvious, visually.  A 1/4 of that pie split in two, along withthe other 3/4, = eighth's, because now there is 8 pieces.  It is simple for a child. 
  Metric on the other hand looks like the dewey decimal system.  How do you teach this to a child of 4 or 5?  I think that is why it didn't take here.  We learned to convert, which once you understand the theory of a unit of measure is simple.  Pretty funny though that we are hanging on to some british kings foot size though :D
  I know alot of folks don't easily grasp fractions, & I never understood that, but it's always easy to explain with a visual example.
  As for 10 being an easier unit, 12 works for me.
I want the tools to come to me with Imperial scales!  I get annoyed by justifying this to the rest of the world while they line up to sell products to us.  Stop insulting us & sell us what we want. :(
  I see that the OF 2200 now comes with an imperial set of accessories.  Is this a sign of things to come, let's hope so.  Otherwise it's just another mixed signal.
  BTW, if I must justify my use of Imperial measurements, just look at my work.  I build in english & have to work with metric hardwares & tool scales.  My customers don't speak metric, nor do my architects & designers.  So don't expect us to change to metric.  I don't make too many measurement mistakes (yes, I just knocked on wood ;)), & my tolerances are tight.
  One funny note,  I did alot of work with the Smithsonian, here in Washington, for several years now.  Exhibit cabinetry & such.
  The blueprints are all in Metric.  It's maddening.  This institution is run by our gov't, the same one who abandoned a conversion to metric 30 years ago.  It seems the rest of the world has influenced the Smithsonian.  They force the contractors & tradesmen, along with their own project managers to deal with this.  Yet none of the material is supplied or spec'd, away from the blueprints, in metric.  We are all mixed up.  When a sheet metal mechanic builds duct work this causes headaches........., & so on.
  The mill work must be converted on the blueprints in the office, prior to layout.  Mistakes are made.  In another enviornment, where the drawings are not metric, the same problems don't exist. 
  As for the cabinetmaker in the shop, we learn.  We learn to measure panel thickness, because some sheets are metric thickness.  We know that 1" equals 25mm (actually 25.4,... argh!) & 3/4" = aprox. 19mm.  We'll also hold our tape measure to the metric scales on tools to aproximate an 8- 1/2" distance.
  We deal.  I think that's more impressive somehow.  Just never take a measurement for granted.  Measure thrice & cut once, as they say.  I don't mind this, & think sometimes it forces me to use great care in the measurements.
 
Dan Lyke said:
It's easy to make fun of the metric system, to ask why we should give up something God gave the English for a system invented by a Frenchman, to wonder why anyone thought that base 10 was a good idea when, as computers take over the world, clearly base 2 fractional systems are both far superior for both computation and human perception ("split the difference", "so that's .4375 of a...") , however, sometimes, no matter how bad the idea, the fact that so many other people have adopted it means that I've got to get competent in it (*cough*Microsoft*cough*).
Click to expand...

Being french  ;)  I'm taking the liberty to point out the fact that
the imperial system uses 3 different bases (3 feet in a yard, 12 inches in a foot, then 2 below) vs. a single base for the
decimal metric system and the binary computer system ... This is what makes the big difference

Anyway, my father was german, my mother family came from italy, and my wife is british
So my Frenchness is quite accidental and contaminated anyway  :)

 
mhch said:
Dan Lyke said:
It's easy to make fun of the metric system, to ask why we should give up something God gave the English for a system invented by a Frenchman, to wonder why anyone thought that base 10 was a good idea when, as computers take over the world, clearly base 2 fractional systems are both far superior for both computation and human perception ("split the difference", "so that's .4375 of a...") , however, sometimes, no matter how bad the idea, the fact that so many other people have adopted it means that I've got to get competent in it (*cough*Microsoft*cough*).
Click to expand...

Being french  ;)  I'm taking the liberty to point out the fact that
the imperial system uses 3 different bases (3 feet in a yard, 12 inches in a foot, then 2 below) vs. a single base for the
decimal metric system and the binary computer system ... This is what makes the big difference

Anyway, my father was german, my mother family came from italy, and my wife is british
So my Frenchness is quite accidental and contaminated anyway   :)
Click to expand...

It may have been the French who first used the system, but it wasn't a Frenchman who invented it. It was first proposed by John Wilkins, an Englishman, in 1668.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it  :P

PS - We think we invented EVERYTHING, and I'm sure we can rationalise that, in some way, the British invented everything... :o
 
mhch said:
Being french  ;)  I'm taking the liberty to point out the fact that
the imperial system uses 3 different bases (3 feet in a yard, 12 inches in a foot, then 2 below) ...
Click to expand...

In fairness to the French (Yes, I'm going to obstinately refuse to acknowledge John Wilkins role in this, because then we'd have to credit an Italian with the source of the word for length, at which point we're acknowledging that it is, in fact, Italian engineering that underlies all technology that isn't created here in the United States, and I think none of us is willing to go that far  :D ),  as soon as you get outside the house you have to include miles, and trying to teach school kids base 5280 (or, wait, is that 6076' 1 3/8"?) arithmetic can be challenging. But there's no use in coddling them, the tougher they start out the better they'll be able to compete in the global marketplace!  ;)

However, I find that I rarely use any more than a single set of units/bases on any given project. At least until I bought Festools and started having to use millimeters with my inches.

 
jonny round boy said:
mhch said:
Dan Lyke said:
It's easy to make fun of the metric system, to ask why we should give up something God gave the English for a system invented by a Frenchman, to wonder why anyone thought that base 10 was a good idea when, as computers take over the world, clearly base 2 fractional systems are both far superior for both computation and human perception ("split the difference", "so that's .4375 of a...") , however, sometimes, no matter how bad the idea, the fact that so many other people have adopted it means that I've got to get competent in it (*cough*Microsoft*cough*).
Click to expand...

Being french  ;)  I'm taking the liberty to point out the fact that
the imperial system uses 3 different bases (3 feet in a yard, 12 inches in a foot, then 2 below) vs. a single base for the
decimal metric system and the binary computer system ... This is what makes the big difference

Anyway, my father was german, my mother family came from italy, and my wife is british
So my Frenchness is quite accidental and contaminated anyway   :)
Click to expand...

It may have been the French who first used the system, but it wasn't a Frenchman who invented it. It was first proposed by John Wilkins, an Englishman, in 1668.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it  :P

PS - We think we invented EVERYTHING, and I'm sure we can rationalise that, in some way, the British invented everything... :o
Click to expand...

Who invented spaghetti?
 
The Chinese invented spaghetti, but I am sure the English invented slurping it. :D
 
And the Americans... I mean USAnians put red sauce in it... now we're back full-circle.
 
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