Going metric: Where do you USAnians buy measuring devices?
- Thread starter Dan Lyke
- Start date
This from New Zealand! How long has it been since you've worked & understood the english system. I think you folks below the equator still fear the English rule. 
Anyway, the fact is most of us in the states have to work in both systems. I think we do well enough with it, but certainly prefer the Fractional math. Side by side it is just easier for construction math. I'mn sure scientist & pure Mathematicians prefer the metric system of ten, But not for woodwork. You'll still represent a fractional amount in Metric, only with a decimal instead of a fraction. There is no visual relation to decimals, it's brain math.
Hold up your hand & the fingers represent fifths, then cover two fingers. You are now hiding 2/5th's of your whole hand. In a metric mind this is still two fifth's, only it is shown as .4 of the whole hand. Confusing.
I read a thread yesterday about Festool rails & the writer refered to the rails in Metric sizes. I'm sorry, but there is a whole lot of zeros in the size of those rails! 2400 MM! I really think it's easier to grasp that an item is 8' long, sorry. We work in two systems here, especially as cabinetmakers, yet you all only work in Metric. Put em side by side & get fluent in both, then tell me your preference.
By the way 2400mm is equal to 94.488188976377952755905511811024 inches, HUH!
That's 94 & 31/64th's in english.
Long live the King's ...foot
Anyway, the fact is most of us in the states have to work in both systems. I think we do well enough with it, but certainly prefer the Fractional math. Side by side it is just easier for construction math. I'mn sure scientist & pure Mathematicians prefer the metric system of ten, But not for woodwork. You'll still represent a fractional amount in Metric, only with a decimal instead of a fraction. There is no visual relation to decimals, it's brain math.
Hold up your hand & the fingers represent fifths, then cover two fingers. You are now hiding 2/5th's of your whole hand. In a metric mind this is still two fifth's, only it is shown as .4 of the whole hand. Confusing.
I read a thread yesterday about Festool rails & the writer refered to the rails in Metric sizes. I'm sorry, but there is a whole lot of zeros in the size of those rails! 2400 MM! I really think it's easier to grasp that an item is 8' long, sorry. We work in two systems here, especially as cabinetmakers, yet you all only work in Metric. Put em side by side & get fluent in both, then tell me your preference.
By the way 2400mm is equal to 94.488188976377952755905511811024 inches, HUH!
That's 94 & 31/64th's in english.
Long live the King's ...foot
Jesse Cloud
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- Jan 23, 2007
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Only thing I can say is if you are going metric, go all the way. Converting back and forth between metric and imperial will drive you nuts and probably cause errors. I draw my projects in metric and write up a metric cutlist. Got a good selection of metric measuring tools (incra makes a great metric T-Square). Only thing lacking is metric drill bits and screws
I might stay imperial with the drills and screws, their dimensions are not important so long as the bit matches the screw....
I might stay imperial with the drills and screws, their dimensions are not important so long as the bit matches the screw....
Jesse Cloud said:
100% agreement, Jesse.
(free) Sketchup has helped my conversion to metric. Doesn't do the conversions automatically, but it does make my drawings cleaner and clearer, and helps me realize mistakes before I make them in reality.
"But I found these plans in inches." I redraw them in Sketchup using metric dimensions and go from there.
And I wish Incra would make an 18" T-square with metric, or for that matter a set of metric-only products.
Ned
It sounds like you guy's are converting & working with both systems, & mistakes can still be made at that early stage, but not caught till later. I can appreciate your approach, but I would confuse my customers as they don't speak "metric-ese" themselves, nor my suppliers. Lumber here is sold as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 ......, or 4' x8', usually 49" x 97" & so on. Conversion is a fact of life in the trade.
Also, not all of my equipment is scaled in metric, in fact most is not. My unisaw has a beisemeyer scaled in english, & so on. I don't work in the metric, but when I need to apply my Imperial numbers, to a Metric scale, a quick conversion is simple. Some people just hold an english rule against a metric rule for a quick reference. All dimensions are, regardless, checked & double checked as well & sometimes the back & forth forces more focus. Measure thrice & cut once, right. Stops on many things are set & left or changed with spacer blocks for repeatability. Anaccuride track is easier & more accurately installed with spacer blocks & a vix bit, not the 32 mm hole system, same for the hinge plates. Really 32 mm is mainly used for shelf pins. This is in most US soil commercial shops. CNC machines change this, yet most still program these machines here in Imperial first & foremost, converted to decimals. Once they are programed they are hardly reset.
Hardware as well is sold in both metric & Imperial dimensions. Ever notice that accuride tracks are sold to us in inch increments, as in 18" or 22" deep, & require a 1/2" clearance each side? Yet they apply to the 32mm system.
If it's your hobby, & metric is another challenge to you, go for it. In my work I need to deal with both though, it's not a choice my customers will make, nor my US supplier.
I'll leave it to another generation as it's seems some are wearing down & switching to metric, so who knows, yet I think it's like teaching your child a foreign language only. Then telling people why it's a better language & that they should switch to it.
Some folks in the US can't even read an english ruler, I think you should try converting them first. ;D
Also, not all of my equipment is scaled in metric, in fact most is not. My unisaw has a beisemeyer scaled in english, & so on. I don't work in the metric, but when I need to apply my Imperial numbers, to a Metric scale, a quick conversion is simple. Some people just hold an english rule against a metric rule for a quick reference. All dimensions are, regardless, checked & double checked as well & sometimes the back & forth forces more focus. Measure thrice & cut once, right. Stops on many things are set & left or changed with spacer blocks for repeatability. Anaccuride track is easier & more accurately installed with spacer blocks & a vix bit, not the 32 mm hole system, same for the hinge plates. Really 32 mm is mainly used for shelf pins. This is in most US soil commercial shops. CNC machines change this, yet most still program these machines here in Imperial first & foremost, converted to decimals. Once they are programed they are hardly reset.
Hardware as well is sold in both metric & Imperial dimensions. Ever notice that accuride tracks are sold to us in inch increments, as in 18" or 22" deep, & require a 1/2" clearance each side? Yet they apply to the 32mm system.
If it's your hobby, & metric is another challenge to you, go for it. In my work I need to deal with both though, it's not a choice my customers will make, nor my US supplier.
I'll leave it to another generation as it's seems some are wearing down & switching to metric, so who knows, yet I think it's like teaching your child a foreign language only. Then telling people why it's a better language & that they should switch to it.
Some folks in the US can't even read an english ruler, I think you should try converting them first. ;D
The True32 Corporation asked FastCap to make the True32 5M tape. True32 sells it for 5.25 USD. Don't know shipping, didn't get that far. Bought mine somewhere else & paid more for it. It's all metric and marked so that it works right- or left-handed. Built-in pencil sharpener, too. I like it.
pingvinlakrits
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- Oct 2, 2007
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- 1,093
I am surprised these don't sell like hotcakes; the Talmeter.
Metric and can read both sides. Locks in place and has a steel marking point. It is in mm increments and getting 1/2 mm accuracy is not hard. Just slide it out and lock, transfer value to the working piece and mark with marking point.
When locked (extra lock) it is very stiff and great for spacing stuff when fitting.
It has a tongue that can be folded out the back to measure interior widths/depths/lengths, just fold out tongue, slide out and (self locking), read from red scale (red scale adds ten cm to the increments).
Oh, and you can measure diameters and radius with the smaller one. Good for girthing tubes or before making holes to fit them in.
Comes in 2000mm (200cm/2m) 3000mm (300cm/3m) and 6000mm (600cm/6m) lengths, I have the last two. I use them everyday and they provide me with great accuracy, swift and easy. I have a folding rule in the toolbox but it rarely sees the light of day.
Metric and can read both sides. Locks in place and has a steel marking point. It is in mm increments and getting 1/2 mm accuracy is not hard. Just slide it out and lock, transfer value to the working piece and mark with marking point.
When locked (extra lock) it is very stiff and great for spacing stuff when fitting.
It has a tongue that can be folded out the back to measure interior widths/depths/lengths, just fold out tongue, slide out and (self locking), read from red scale (red scale adds ten cm to the increments).
Oh, and you can measure diameters and radius with the smaller one. Good for girthing tubes or before making holes to fit them in.
Comes in 2000mm (200cm/2m) 3000mm (300cm/3m) and 6000mm (600cm/6m) lengths, I have the last two. I use them everyday and they provide me with great accuracy, swift and easy. I have a folding rule in the toolbox but it rarely sees the light of day.
pingvinlakrits
Member
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- Oct 2, 2007
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- 1,093
oops, Lock and Release are inversed on my sketchy sketch... ...my bad. :-[
Anyway, I was restoring windows and making new Mullions by the dozen on windows that were all different in width. With the Talmeter I just slid it out, locked in place and then marked the new piece in a few seconds.
The tongue folds in when not in use and then you read off the black scale. All parts can be exhanged, i replaced the tongue after snagging it, cost me $3 to replace.
Still, the best measuring tape I have ever seen, I have converted a few fellow carpenters, on site fitting has never been so easy and accurate.
Anyway, I was restoring windows and making new Mullions by the dozen on windows that were all different in width. With the Talmeter I just slid it out, locked in place and then marked the new piece in a few seconds.
The tongue folds in when not in use and then you read off the black scale. All parts can be exhanged, i replaced the tongue after snagging it, cost me $3 to replace.
Still, the best measuring tape I have ever seen, I have converted a few fellow carpenters, on site fitting has never been so easy and accurate.
Thank you, pingvinlakrits.
Here's the website of the British manufacturer: http://www.talmeter.co.uk
I didn't dig very deep, but I haven't found a North American distributor yet.
Ned
Here's the website of the British manufacturer: http://www.talmeter.co.uk
I didn't dig very deep, but I haven't found a North American distributor yet.
Ned
I have this tape. It's great.Ned Young said:
There is a "story pole" metric flatback version that is miserable. The markings are about 2mm from the edge - too narrow for a story pole and it introduces parallax errors.
Unfortunately when I contacted them about this, they responded with marketing hype. I gave up.
Regards,
Dan.
Michael Kellough
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- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 7,102
Dan,
Are you talking about the standard True32 measuring tape or a FlatBack model? If the standard True32 tape, just run down to your local Woodcraft and buy one. They are not on the Woodcraft website and FastCap doesn't see fit to give them any press, but they are in the Woodcraft stores. That's where I bought mine.
Look for the one with the blue label that says "True32" on the side.
Regards,
Dan.
p.s., I added pics of mine so you'll know what to look for at Woodcraft.
Are you talking about the standard True32 measuring tape or a FlatBack model? If the standard True32 tape, just run down to your local Woodcraft and buy one. They are not on the Woodcraft website and FastCap doesn't see fit to give them any press, but they are in the Woodcraft stores. That's where I bought mine.
Look for the one with the blue label that says "True32" on the side.
Regards,
Dan.
p.s., I added pics of mine so you'll know what to look for at Woodcraft.
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