Going metric

B

BlueMaxx

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Feb 12, 2008
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Back in 2001 I apprenticed at a local shop. The other apprentice that worked with us was from (eastern) Germany..I will never forget one day when Tobias exclaimed (insert thick German accent) Vat is dis? thirty seconds, sisteenths, vy dont you use metric and simply move zee decimal!
So I am curious, has anyone who started using the Festool system switched from imperial to metric in the layout, design and implementation. I am understanding that most Festool tools are in metric, no?
MSH
 
BlueMaxx,

Yes, not only because Festool is metric, but I build cabinets for a living and metric (once you bite the bullet and make the change) makes life so much easier for cabinets, the shelf pin holes work, the same holes work for hinges and drawer slides.

You can never quite get away from imperial since customers will give and want dimensions in inches. I suggest getting a good calculator which will work in both systems and convert between them, I use a Construction Master 5 which I found at Lowes I think.

Finding metric measuring tools is a hassle sometimes, but woodcraft and I think pinnacle does a story stick which is great for making metric measurements.
 
I got my first metric tape when I bought the domino.  I bought the starret at rockler.  I now have several. I have to admit that metric is easier, but I'd say I'm still about 90% a inch/food guy. 
 
Not just because of Festool, I switched to Metric. As a new beginner to WW, I wanted limit frustrations in learning.
I asked the same question as you on an Australian WWing forum. They switched over from Imp. measures to Metric 30 years ago.

What I learned from them is that Metric is far easier with smaller dimensions. And of course with forumulas or when jumping from linear to volume units.

But with larger dimensions, Yards, Feet and Inches is easier. Try to imagine a board 2700 cm long. I know, it would truly be Meters and a few cm. But you get the point. In order to learn, I discarded every Dual Scale measure in the shop. I simply went cold turkey. In about 20 days, the light bulb went on in my head. Of course with the Festool scales and literature, you really need to know Metrics.

Gary Curtis
 
extiger said:
Try to imagine a board 2700 cm long. I know, it would truly be Meters and a few cm.
Gary Curtis
Click to expand...

Actually, it would be 27 m and no cm. That's kind of the point. You just move the decimal point over 2 places to conver from cm to m. It really is easier.

I grew up in Canada when they were switching from imperial to metric. So I'm totally confused. I do car speeds in miles/hr, water speeds in cm/second, weights in lbs, lengths in cm and m, temperatures in air in Farenheit, water temperatures in Celcius, volumes in ml for small volumes, gallons for big ones. It's like being almost ambidextrous, but only using one hand (not sure which one) for any specific task...
 
;D Poto, thanks for the laugh!
I used to work in Alaska and had to make flights to Canada and was woefully confused at times. Plus I worked in the medical field which is a mixture of Imp & metric. Kept me on my toes though...
I like the way extiger put it, in smaller dimensions it makes more sense. This current project I am on has made me wish I would have done so.
 
so where do you find the geometric location of 1/3, 1/6 ect.and all of the factorial problems of 10 vs 12.may i add that a mm is not that small, so what do you  do 1/2 mm? O, sorry that is a fraction so i guess we are going to be using micro meters. i use both but grow tired of the idea of metric is better. i guess when some one can not handle the fraction then fingers and toes will do. all i can say is pick one and if it makes you feel better about yourself than great, i do not get that much out of my measuring systems. though i some people think paper or plastic has vast galactic meaning.
 
People that seem to have the most trouble in dealing with metric measurements are those who try to convert a reading from metric to imperial.  The best way to become comfortable with the metric system is to go cold turkey.  Don't try to figure out what 18mm is.  It is what it is. 18mm.  After a while you might learn that it is also about 3/4 inch, but don't think about it.

Temperature is a big issue for many people.  I give my wife the temperature in degrees Centigrade and she practically has a cow.  Her mind set is that the rest of the world should get in step with us Americans.  The real issue is whether it is short sleeve weather, or should I wear a jacket, not whether it is 20 degrees or 68 degrees.

In addition to a calculator, digital calipers can be found that will measure in both millimeters and inches.  My Wixey displays inches as a decimal value as well as a fraction.  That is useful.

I think all the advice is sound.  Metric is easier, going back and forth isn't.
 
I've been trying to use metric because I'm interested in the 32mm system. I still get a little lost when the measurements get longer but so far I haven't had to split any millimeters. I like it well enough and have bought 3 fastcap metric tapes in addition to the 2 I bought awhile back.
 
I was brought up in the UK with both but now in France only use metric.
BUT as I have mentioned before on this forum, when you buy sheet goods here, why are they such strange dimensions - eg 1m22 x 2m44, or 19mm thick and not 20mm (and when you measure it it is nearer 19.05 ie 3/4 inch)???  Because they are still manufacturing many things based on imperial sizes!!!
 
I grew up in Australia prior to conversion to Metric in 1968, and was very comfortable using Imperial measurement (note that - it is actually called imperial - it is only you yanks that call it "standard"  ;) ).

I kept using imperial until about three years later, when I decided to build a 5.5 m (16 ft) catamaran in tortured Australian red cedar ply, and went cold turkey to build it. No conversion, just adopt the measurements - you soon get to recognize that a metre is a bit longer than a yard, and that 10 mm is about 3/8".

After finishing the cat, there was no way I could go back - I was hooked! It is just so simple!

But I can really feel for you guys in the US with the background measurement system in imperial, you would feel like real loners if you, in relative isolation, in the US population decided to change to metric. That would be difficult!

Trust  me it really is easier!
 
I've grown up with the imperial system (we were taught it was the English system) so my mind is pretty fixed to those measurements.

I also teach measurement to new students in my woodshop.  I will tell you though I do wish we were in metric, it is A LOT easier to teach and much more user friendly.

1 mm = 0.0393 of an inch is 2/3rd of the way between 1/32 and 3/64's.  If you looked between the mm lines, you could easily (as easily as your eyes can do it) measure to within .004 of 1/64th.

Anything closer is just ooncing the fence.

As for metric tools, look in a good scientific or school supply site.  You certainly find rulers there.

Tallgrass, I don't understand your comments regarding "the geometric location of 1/3, 1/6 ect.and all of the factorial problems of 10 vs 12."  Can you explain a little further?
 
RDAWSON nailed it.  Start with metric from the get/go, don't try to convert - it offers ample opportunity for error and drives you nuts.

The VS600 was what pushed me over the edge, since it cuts metric sized dovetails, you pretty much have to design in metric.
'
 
Aquila said:
I grew up in Australia prior to conversion to Metric in 1968, and was very comfortable using Imperial measurement (note that - it is actually called imperial - it is only you yanks that call it "standard"  ;) ).
Click to expand...

I'd probably say nothing to you if we were walking on Chapel st. talking about it, but you should actually take into account that although "only yanks call it standard", it IS standard in the US, so it is correct for an American to use that term. The measurement system is called imperial in other places, some call it fractional measurement. The fact that Americans use the term standard does not make it incorrect. Open a big catalog like Grainger and you'll see they often list tools as standard, imperial, and fractional interchangeably.

Or should we get into the things Australians say that ONLY Australians say, hmm?  ;D
 
Have to laugh whenever I see these threads. It is like listening to people argue whether using a spanner or a socket is a better method to remove a screw. The answer is neither. Marking to fit, story sticks etc are the way to go. No matter how good you are at measuring, there is always movement and differences between the ruler on the bench, the tape measure and the scale on the TS.

Unless this discussion is for carpentry only?  ;)
 
With petrol we used to have Standard and Super.

There are lots of examples - hotels, say - of Standard and Superior, Standard and Deluxe.

Standard and Metric. It is OK that the flat-Earth society continue to call it Standard, because the rest of us know that Metric is better.
 
ok i can not resist.... the standard for the metric system of length is the inch which makes the "imperial" system the  standard for the metric system. it is one of those facts that makes me smile. ;D ;D ;D ;D
 
Tallgrass: Don't know where you get your information from, but it's incorrect.

The metric units were defined in an elegant way unlike any traditional units of measure. The Earth itself was selected as the measuring stick. The meter was defined to be one ten-millionth of the distance from the Equator to the North Pole. The liter was to be the volume of one cubic decimeter, and the kilogram was to be the weight of a liter of pure water. It didn't turn out quite like this, because the scientific methods of the time were not quite up to the task of measuring these quantities precisely, but the actual metric units come very close to the design.
 
i usually get this response, the reason for this is the the metric system did not always provide a direct conversion to the "standard" if you look into the history of the metric system. it was adjusted some time ago to allow for a direct conversion so that you could in fact interchange the two measurement systems. the fact that the standard system was not changed but the metric system was changed to,
Meter=The unit of length is equal to the length of the path traveled by light in a vacuum during the time interval of 1⁄299,792,458 of a second. this adjustment allowed for the direct conversion. before this thee was not a direct conversion which lead to rounding errors in conversion.
That is why i say what i said,since the standard system was not changed but the metric was changed to equal in whole units the standard system. i use both so i just find the topic a fun exorcise, thoughts?
 
The French originated the meter in the 1790s as one/ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the north pole along a meridian through Paris.  It is realistically represented by the distance between two marks on an iron bar kept in Paris.  The International Bureau of Weights and Measures, created in 1875, upgraded the bar to one made of 90 percent platinum/10 percent iridium alloy.

In 1960 the meter was redefined as 1,650,763.73 wavelengths of orange-red light, in a vacuum, produced by burning the element krypton (Kr-86).  More recently (1984), the Geneva Conference on Weights and Measures has defined the meter as the distance light travels, in a vacuum, in 1/299,792,458 seconds with time measured by a cesium-133 atomic clock which emits pulses of radiation at very rapid, regular intervals.

None of the definitions changed the length of the meter, but merely allowed this length to be duplicated more precisely.  ;)

Our English foot has not been so constant.  The U. S. Congress legalized the use of the metric system in 1866 on the basis that one meter is exactly equal to 39.37 inches.  In 1959 a number of English-speaking countries agreed that an inch is exactly equal to 2.54 centimeters so that the International foot is exactly equal to 0.3048 meters.  The United States retained the old 1866 equivalency and called it the U. S. Survey foot so that 1 U. S. Survey foot equals 1.000002 International feet.

http://www.surveyhistory.org/the_standard_meter1.htm

 
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