Going metric

in the engineering text if "i remember correctly" called the Theory of Measurement......it has been a long time  ;):the inch was 25.3977-25.3978 causing the 25.4 pragmatic number and the fine tuning was necessary to get a stable measurement of the 25.4 standardized approximation and the differing techniques were employed to correct for definition short comings as technology advanced. thoughts....all that is missing here is beer and darts ;D ;D To throw fire on this it was my understanding the metric system was brought about but the destruction of the educated class in France during the revolution ,so an easier method was needed for the uneducated. :P ;D ;D ;D ;D just having a little fun too.
 
All this is great - but as I always point out whenever this subject comes up - we still have to navigate round the world in nautical miles...It's too late now, but if only the meter tied in to one second of one degree blah blah it would have a stronger argument for becoming universal.  In the meantime however many times I measure, nothing ever seems to turn out perfect - even with a Festool. :-\
 
would it not be wonderful if the system we chose to use compensated for our incompetence or at least mine. i have a soft object to kick in my shop for when i screw up, it is soft not to protect my foot but to protect what it hits so my tantrum does not have to expand to cover what i just broke.
 
This is all rather amusing to me. I'd guess most competent woodworkers are well able to use either method of measuring. Neither of them is complicated. The great thing is it gives us all an opportunity to waste time writing nonsense (such as this) extolling the virtues of each. One inescapable fact is that as the British were at the helm of industrialisation due to their innate flexibility (quite unlike many other European nations peoples!) they set down the benchmark for so many basic measures. They include things like pipe fitting, thickness of board, threads and so much more. It's nothing to brag about, it's just an historical fact. So, blame us. We can take it!
 
Here is a little helpfull thing for all of you "over there"

http://festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain//displayimage.php?pos=-1837



 
The Woodentop said:
One inescapable fact is that as the British were at the helm of industrialisation due to their innate flexibility (quite unlike many other European nations peoples!) they set down the benchmark for so many basic measures.

So, blame us. We can take it!
Click to expand...

Forgive me, Larry, but when someone uses "innate flexibility" to describe the Brits I have to chuckle. If you can, find a copy of The Last Place On Earth. It is a great read, comparing the South Pole expeditions of Scott and Amundsen.

Having just written what I have, I do need to add that there is some significant validity in your observation. For me, it is not the Industrial Revolution that expresses it as much as the peaceful state of affairs between England and Scotland. Considering their history they create a model from which the rest of the world could learn a great deal about the value of peaceful coexistence. Sorry to go off-topic.
 
I've read that book. Actually I was talking about 'in general' as a people, not the exceptions that prove the rule!

But, yes you are right about the 'friendly rivalry' between the Scots and the English.

Larry
 
If you live in an all metric country (and, I'm not saying that I would care for that), then metric is simple. However, in the real world, there are those of us that live in countries that were industrialized based on imperial measure. Therefore, we have a very large base of tools and components that are imperial. I certainly wouldn't throw out all of my imperial tools and parts just to go metric "cold turkey". I'm guessing many others use the same logic. The market still supports both metric and imperial in the US. I would guess that imperial meets all the precision requirements for 99% of all woodworking. Frankly, it wouldn't bother me at all if Festool would market tools based on imperial. Then, it would take less time to do the conversions. But, I'm not uncomfortable doing the conversions when needed.
 
ok i have made my ideas know and i use both, but here it is and i would love to hear as it pertains too woodworking, is the millimeter as a unit that is small enough? I do not think a 16th of an inch is small enough. i often find that a mm is just too large unit and you can't have a half mm on a tape measure. i have been working on a project in which nothing  that had too be matched was exactly to a mm. and mm gap would not work.in the world of wood working i find i am frequently using 32 and 64ths. now before someone flips out this is not a political argument about which is best i am just find the mm  too large a unit when using a tape measure. thoughts?
 
Honestly, I've found that in making the switch, the largeness of the millimetre was more than equally offset by my previous dismal use of fractional measurement. Overall, I'd say my accuracy is greatly improved by removing fractional math, but then, I'm a math numpty, born a book nerd. I still hold the wood in place and mark it whenever I can, and then cut it three more times until it fits.

"5 inches and the big mark past 7/16ths plus 7 and 3/8ths inches = no clue. "
 
As an American carpenter I just bought my first inch/metric tape ever, to help me with the installation of a "slow-down" for a bench seat dor (so that the door wouldn't fall and slam the kiddies fingers). I like it fine, but really, who can measure and mark 16.2mm on a tape measure?
 
Half a millimeter is too big, a quarter millimeter is too small, but now that I've got those Talmeters I'm using them as story sticks rather than tape measures, and my tolerances are improving.

Yeah, one of my big issues with going metric is that 1/64" is about the minimum size that I can comfortably deal with without breaking out the calipers, a half a millimeter is larger than that, a quarter is smaller, and a millimeter is too big. Doubling and halving is also a great way to deal with scale. But I'm also learning to measure stuff less, to just use relative lengths, and that's improving my skills a lot.
 
My Festool's are metric, my jointer/planer reads in metric and I have been reading inches/feet all of my life.

I start a project in inches/feet to get a rough dimensional feel for the size and then convert to metric

I agree it can be hard to read 16.2mm  but the new Talmeter rules are pretty good for accuracy, especially with the built in story sticks!

Dan Clermont
 
understand that some people find adding and subtracting fraction can be a pain, but the mm is equal to about a 25th but but sometimes you want smaller units , what you guys due or is a 25th good enough, which is ok but i find that i am often 32 ,64ths.
 
what is a Talmeters? is this something i need to get ?  i am in usa, is this only naina?
 
Eli said:
......
"5 inches and the big mark past 7/16ths plus 7 and 3/8ths inches = no clue. "
Click to expand...

Now That was funny  :D :D :D

I use both & just to confuse things further often use decimal

Scott W.
 
tallgrass said:
what is a Talmeters? is this something i need to get ?  i am in usa, is this only naina?
Click to expand...

Metric tape measures see here

We had a group buy a while back from the UK  you can find the thread with the search function

Scott W.
 
Scott W. said:
Metric tape measures see here
Click to expand...

Just to expand a little bit: Yeah, they're tape measures, but they have three things over your regular tape measure: They have a bit which extends out past the case, for measuring inside dimensions, the lock is really really good, and the point on the hook, the point under where the tape enters the case, and the extension, are all sharp enough to scribe wood.
 
The spacing of millimeter markings shouldn't be an issue, IMO. You just need to be able to read between the lines. For many years, the finest accuracy on a micrometer relied on a vernier, which is an exercize in finding what pair of lines matched up best. Many machinists can tell you within a tenth or two what that a size is by interpolating the distance between marks on the micrometer thimble without ever using the vernier. That is, they can reliably estimate the distance between two marks, which are coincidentally about a millimeter apart, into ten discreet numbers. Using visual interpolation, I think it is easy to break that 1mm distance into at least five spaces. Thats about .008". Now, tell me, when you make your mark, fraction or metric, what do you use? A pencil? How sharp? How steady is your hand? Do you apply a little english to your effort? All of these things diminish your accuracy. At that point it's not about measuring, or shouldn't be. It's about transferring a size. That is what a story stick or Talmeter does for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top