Goods from Banggood

[Cheese]

Ya, all this Banggood drama makes my head hurt. There was a time when you purchased name brand products and you would be rewarded with excellent results, that's what you were paying the premium price for, they had a history and that history was your reward. Think Starrett, Lufkin, Tesa, Brown & Sharpe, Woodpeckers...the list goes on.

Now, to find a good product, the norm is I'm supposed to watch multiple video reviews of a product made somewhere? that may be significantly changed before I can actually purchase it?

Count me out...the $ saved vs time spent ratio doesn't seem to be very high. And if you have to ultimately return the item or worse yet just throw it away and start all over again well, some folks are just younger than I am and have more time.  [smile]

Buy once...cry once.

 

[smorgasbord]

I once read about how Starrett once literally had a guy in a dark room calibrating squares with a back light and hammer. Now with CNC and optical test, accuracy can be greater and done cheaper. And Starrett has had trouble keeping up:
https://www.telegram.com/story/busi...nd-main-athols-starrett-struggles/25379870007

And was more recently sold to a company called Middle Ground.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I rode racing bikes.  I had a Fiorelli track bike and a Rolls road bike—both made in Italy.  Both were made from double-butted Columbus steel tubing and were low temperature silver brazed. 

They both had “rat trap” pedals.  They required that you reach down and release the strap in order to exit the pedal.

The hit on these was “If you fell to the ground and were about to be run over by a 40,000 pound semi-trailer, you would not be able to get out of harm’s way.”

I never heard of anyone getting hit by a semi while riding a bike. 

The bigger safety issue was if you were about to fall and you could release your foot from the pedal, your instinct would be to stick your foot out to break your fall.  What that would do, was guarantee that you would have one or more breaks in your leg.

The correct tactic was to keep your knees in and hold onto the handle bar.  You will end up with a nasty raspberry, but your shoulder will protect your head.  And there was a greatly reduced chance of breaking a leg.  But…it took some time to get used to the fact that you could not just jump off your bike.

Another good tip but this one I hope to not put to the test.

I take it you didn’t make this photo but it’s a very good one anyway.

 

[demographic]

Omg that's great! Lol for real [member=74278]Packard[/member].

Fwiw I had those plastic rims. Never broke, but I got good with a spoke wrench. ACS springs to mind.

I had ACS Z Rims and Z hubs on my Ammaco Freestyler.

Yeah, they could get pretty flexy.

 

[Packard]

I rode racing bikes.  I had a Fiorelli track bike and a Rolls road bike—both made in Italy.  Both were made from double-butted Columbus steel tubing and were low temperature silver brazed. 

They both had “rat trap” pedals.  They required that you reach down and release the strap in order to exit the pedal.

The hit on these was “If you fell to the ground and were about to be run over by a 40,000 pound semi-trailer, you would not be able to get out of harm’s way.”

I never heard of anyone getting hit by a semi while riding a bike. 

The bigger safety issue was if you were about to fall and you could release your foot from the pedal, your instinct would be to stick your foot out to break your fall.  What that would do, was guarantee that you would have one or more breaks in your leg.

The correct tactic was to keep your knees in and hold onto the handle bar.  You will end up with a nasty raspberry, but your shoulder will protect your head.  And there was a greatly reduced chance of breaking a leg.  But…it took some time to get used to the fact that you could not just jump off your bike.

Another good tip but this one I hope to not put to the test.

I take it you didn’t make this photo but it’s a very good one anyway.

This was the only photo I found of the rat trap pedal.  The newer quick release was a quantum advance over the unloved rat trap pedal. And it is a remarkably excellent photo.

 

[smorgasbord]

It takes a while for bicycling newbies to grok that "clipless" pedals are the ones you actually clip into, and that the "clip" they don't have is that aluminum toe clip through which the strap passes. Or maybe it's just confusing "clip" with "click?"

Back to the topic, Dennis' newest video shows he has lost touch with his audience. He's gone from saving people $50 to buy a Chinese made doweling jig to now recommending they spend over a thousand dollars on a automated blast gate system. Because it's a Dutch company? Because he's made so much money on his videos he himself doesn't care about the cost?

Another YTer bites the dust. (sorry for the pun, couldn't help myself)

 

[onocoffee]

I think that one video touting Euro 250 blast gates and Euro 300 mini controllers does not necessarily mean the downfall of Hooked On Wood. That kind of thing could have been said when he featured the Felder sliding table saw and dust collection system.

As someone who makes YouTube videos, watching that video today (and clicking away after a couple of minutes) did make me wonder what that video's performance analytics look like.

Personally, I'm very new to this fine woodworking and have enjoyed examining the style of Dennis' workshop. I've also found seemingly good information from Sedge, Katz-Moses and the Wood Whisperer. I like their videos because you can tell by their style that they've got experience behind them and are not just learning along with the audience.

I've been meaning to get some of those Banggood tools for myself, specifically the HoW T-Square because it seems like a more feature packed T-Square than others and at a not terrible high price. But I so dislike buying stuff online that I keep putting it off.

Meanwhile, I ordered the reamer chamfer and a few different bench dogs from TSO/UJK and have found their quality to be excellent. And it was just yesterday that I was thinking that perhaps I'll just stick with the TSO/UJK bench dogs and Festool clamps rather than seeking out alternatives. They're certainly not the cheapest option but the quality is a known quantity.

That said, I've enjoyed Dennis' videos and do look forward to his future videos - despite currently not having a need for a Euro 250 electronic blast gate. But I don't have a Felder, either...

 

[woodferret]

Hooked on Wood did put me onto the Enjoywood hold downs (equiv MFT-HZ 80).  I have both those and Festool, and I reach for the Banggood versions first.  They're also cheap enough, that I'm not going to cry over having two sets of hold-downs around the shop.

 

[MikeGE]

Back to the topic, Dennis' newest video shows he has lost touch with his audience. He's gone from saving people $50 to buy a Chinese made doweling jig to now recommending they spend over a thousand dollars on a automated blast gate system. Because it's a Dutch company? Because he's made so much money on his videos he himself doesn't care about the cost?

Another YTer bites the dust. (sorry for the pun, couldn't help myself)

 

I was an early subscriber to Hooked on Wood, but my interest didn't last long and I unsubscribed.  Like so many YT creators who start off with potential good intentions of showing how to make useful products for the home, I stop watching when the vendor sponsorship becomes the main focus. 

Of the 128 videos on his channel, only three or four are actually products made for use outside the workshop.  The rest are tool reviews that might be sponsored, such as the latest video for the automated blast gates.  In my opinion, this video is an expensive solution in search of a problem.  Perhaps he should rename his channel to Hooked on Woodworking Tools.

 

[smorgasbord]

BTW, back to doweling jigs, this guy compares the DowelMax to the Jessem (previous version), and then screws up big time with the Jessem:

[attachimg=1]
=weaWE8R8xnGKPEsZ&t=410
(starts at 6:50 in)

Yet he rates the Jessem higher than the DowelMax at the end!

All of which goes to show that reviewers without enough experience with a tool don't give useful reviews.

 

[krudawg]

We all have a choice and most of the time, it comes down to how well the tool will do the job and at what cost.  With Festool, for me, the tool design, utility, and accuracy are the most important reason why I buy Festool - Cost, never comes into play when reaching for a Festool because I know the tools are priced at the top of the market.  I buy Things like the Domino because fussing around with making mortise and Tenons is time consuming and usually the result is not as "clean" as plowing a domino and glueing it up.  The Domino is outrageously expensive but it makes my workflow go faster so I swallow hard and bought it.    Same with my Sliding Table Saw made by Felder(Hammer K3 Winner) but positioned as a less expensive alternative to the actual Felder line.  I wanted a sliding table saw mostly for the capabilities of the saw itself - So I dug deep and bought one.  But rulers, Squares, or clamps, with few exceptions do about the same job so I don't need to pay a premium for the luxury of a name brand although early into my decision to become a woodworker, I purchased several Woodpecker squares, and clamps but my only decision process for those ancillary woodworking tools are accuracy and cost.  BTW, I only buy Japanese built cars - Toyota or Honda.  I pay a premium for a Toyota or Honda over a Ford or Chevy BECAUSE they are built better and last longer, in my opinion and experience.  When my son turned 16 he wanted a Ford Mustang so I bought him a new 2005 Mustang with all the options (except no V8 but a V6). The car literally started falling apart at 50,000 miles.  I traded it in for a Hyundai Elantra which turned out to be an ok car but it was no Toyota.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip  When my son turned 16 he wanted a Ford Mustang so I bought him a new 2005 Mustang with all the options (except no V8 but a V6). The car literally started falling apart at 50,000 miles.  I traded it in for a Hyundai Elantra which turned out to be an ok car but it was no Toyota.

In the 70s, I owned my first car, a second-hand Mustang. No issues and when I sold it, I got back every dollar and cent I paid for it. Sad to hear that 30 years later, my dream car became a lemon.

 

[Steve1]

BTW, back to doweling jigs, this guy compares the DowelMax to the Jessem (previous version), and then screws up big time with the Jessem:

To be fair, that could happen to anybody. 
I just got the DowelMax, and was using it recently.
It's very intuitive but I can picture my mind getting a bit numb after a bunch of holes, and then starting to use the wrong datum.

I am doing a panel glue up now. 
Previously, I would have used biscuits, but the thing that drove me crazy was the variation in biscuit thickness, many thinner.  I was always measuring each biscuit to select the ones that that fit best.  Tried a couple different brands of biscuits - same thing.

One thing I like is that everything on the Dowelmax is tight.  The dowels are all tight in the holes.  Their extension piece (the one that lets you put holes up to 12" centers) is TIGHT in the previous hole.    I don't think the Jessem includes a similar piece for putting holes at longer centers.

I was worried about tolerance stack up using multiple dowels.  But with 9 dowels on a 90" set of boards, they went together nicely.  And faces were very flush.

731 Woodworks is just an infomercial.  I rarely watch it.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Agree with Steve1, most of the time when I used biscuits they fit too loosely. If I was joining two panels in the same plane I had to use dowels get adequate registration. Then came the Domino and I gladly abandoned all of the above.

Dowels do the job but the process is much slower than using the Domino, and unforgiving of any mistakes, although correcting mistakes is usually possible.

 

[Packard]

Agree with Steve1, most of the time when I used biscuits they fit too loosely. If I was joining two panels in the same plane I had to use dowels get adequate registration. Then came the Domino and I gladly abandoned all of the above.

Dowels do the job but the process is much slower than using the Domino, and unforgiving of any mistakes, although correcting mistakes is usually possible.

The registration on the biscuits comes later, though I can’t imagine having faith that it will. 

The biscuits are made from compressed wood.  When it comes in contact with water or moisture in the glue it will expand filling the biscuit slot tightly.  You can test it by briefly dipping a biscuit in water and also “painting” the slot with water.  Then assemble. 

Come back an hour or two later and there will be no slop in the fit.

But as I said, it takes faith.  And most (myself included) cannot make that leap. 

It is also the reason you should store biscuits in airtight jars. Left out in the moist air they will expand and be difficult to insert in the slots.

 

[smorgasbord]

BTW, back to doweling jigs, this guy compares the DowelMax to the Jessem (previous version), and then screws up big time with the Jessem:

To be fair, that could happen to anybody. 

But the DowelMax has the "√" markings to help avoid it. And if you mess up in the review you either incorporate that into your rating, or you go back and get more experience before reviewing.

I don't think the Jessem includes a similar piece for putting holes at longer centers.

They include a pin so you can extend the row immediately adjacent, but not the rod and thumb stop to extend far.

Previously, I would have used biscuits, but the thing that drove me crazy was the variation in biscuit thickness, many thinner.

I'm still working through a big box of Lamello biscuits bought years ago and kept in zip-locs. They're been quite consistent. I think there are lots of lesser quality biscuits out there.

And Dominos are great, because, well, Festool makes the dominos.

 

[derekcohen]

There are no doubt good and poor tools, but recognising this is not easy as most (all?) of the demonstrators receive payment for their efforts. This comes by way of a commission for selling the products via a link, and often (mostly?) their tools are sponsored (free) for the purpose of an online review.

I am cynical of these people, but I have earned the right to be so, having built furniture as a serious amateur for over 30 years. I have also reviewed many tools over the years, in writing to be found on my website, and always in the context of building furniture and a comparison with other similar tools. Doing it this way provides both an illustration of their pros and cons, as well as offering my credentials as a woodworker. What I see on YouTube are a bunch of pretend-woodworkers who dress up their stage-workshop, usually in red and green. I would like to see something of substance they have actually built.

I liked Dennis better when he started out. Then he made videos of his jigs and with an aim to improve his more-typical-hobby-equipment. And this found an audience. It was honest stuff. Then he discovered tools from Banggood, and began promoting them. He resigned his job to do this full-time. Clearly the pay was better, and soon his workshop began to sport high-end machines. This appear to be used to show case the China Tools, and not for building furniture. He presents well, is a good salesman, and I still enjoy his shows - but that is now what they are for me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[demographic]

While I'm all for reviews that cover quality, features and value  I do have to say that as soon as someone just complains about the country of origin their opinions fall off a cliff as far as I'm concerned.
Make what you will of that.

 

[ChuckM]

As a woodworker, I could relate to why someone would quit his day-time job, especially when more money is to be made and doing reviews makes him happy.

The only couple of times I bought something because of a review or two were years ago after I checked out Chris Schwarz's year-end gift suggestions. And they were things available at a big box hardware store or Amazon, not from some fancy tool makers or brands. I don't think I'd buy a serious tool because so-and-so recommends so. So sorry, my wallet is the only influencer that works on me. 

 

[Mini Me]

I liked Dennis better when he started out. Then he made videos of his jigs and with an aim to improve his more-typical-hobby-equipment. And this found an audience. It was honest stuff. Then he discovered tools from Banggood, and began promoting them. He resigned his job to do this full-time. Clearly the pay was better, and soon his workshop began to sport high-end machines. This appear to be used to show case the China Tools, and not for building furniture. He presents well, is a good salesman, and I still enjoy his shows - but that is now what they are for me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I totally agree and I always thought he had a business plan in mind before he started the channel. Is that a bad thing or a clever idea, he has basically built a business which a lot of people do just not on YT. I haven't finished watching the last couple of his videos and I wouldn't be surprised if others have done the same.