Got me some decent planes at last

[shed9]

These puppies arrived this week;



Been after some decent kit for a while and finally pulled the trigger. Had a play with them and can definitely see how they command the price tag they do.

Going to replace my stones as well, any suggestions on decent kit welcome.

 

[Stone Message]

Those planes look super. Have you investigated sharpening using diamond lapping film? It is often referred to as "Scary Sharpening" as it does create a seriously sharp edge.

Peter

 

[shed9]

Those planes look super. Have you investigated sharpening using diamond lapping film? It is often referred to as "Scary Sharpening" as it does create a seriously sharp edge.

Peter

Thanks Peter, I have toyed with the scary sharp method as I already have some of the kit used. Can I ask if this is your own preferred method?

Forgot to mention the planes are Lie Nielsen's in #4.5, #5.5 and a #7.

 

[Stone Message]

I went for the Veritas planes, low angle jack, low angle smoothing and low angle block planes.

I have now sold my Tormek Supergrind and only use lapping film. I bought my first supply from Lee Valley along with their brilliant Veritas honing guide. In the UK the Woodworkers' Workshop carry everything you need for lapping, including the Veritas guide. I have been to visit them and they practice what they preach as their students use it as well.

I made a pair of videos about the lapping technique...

Part 1:



Part 2:



The key thing is to always do a gentle touch up at regular intervals rather than letting your planes and chisels go too far. Also, use fine oil rather than water as this removes the risk of rust.

Peter

 

[DB10]

Yeah they're nice. Where did you end up purchasing them from?

 

[mouppe]

Amazing planes! Congrats.

There are umpteen sharpening methods but here is mine.

I have been using Norton waterstones for years, but their quality is not what it was and I am gradually switching to Ohishi waterstones which are sold by Lie Nielsen. 1000, 4000 and 8000 are what I use followed by a leather strop. The leather strop is something that many people disagree with, but it works for me.

Having a sink and a separate sharpening station in my workshop makes using waterstones that little bit more convenient. Perhaps if I had carry in water and sharpen on my bench I would have gone down a different road?

I would also recommend getting a diamond plate for flattening the stones and for removing a lot of metal fast. I have a coarse/ extra coarse DMT plate which is roughly equivalent to 320/ 220 grit.

As Peter suggested, I too would recommend the Veritas honing guide. I don't use it much any more because I was forced to learn to sharpen gouges, knives, axes and other tools which wouldn't fit into the guide freehand- and then it became natural to sharpen everything freehand- but it was essential for me for a long time.

P.S. It looks as if you have a high angle frog in the #7 and a standard angle in the 4 1/2. I would switch those two around or the #7 will be very hard work!

 

[John Broomall]

Those planes are way better than decent, congratulations!

The Veritas MkII system is as good as everyone says, it's a great improvement on the MkI. I also got the cambering roller to use on my No.7 & 8, it's another worthwhile investment.

I have waterstones and diamond plates but I keep going back to soft, hard, black, and translucent Arkansas, I think it's just a matter of personal preference.

 

[jacko9]

Great looking planes makes me want to sell my old Record planes and get new ones!

Jack

 

[dpetrzelka]

I use the same system as Peter for both my A2 Lie Nielsen, and my PMV-11 Vertias planes - even works wonderfully on the old EC Emmerich steel.

Be cautions about gouging the lapping films - pulling the blades is key, but they stay flat, and sharpen quickly.

I highly recommend the Veritas/Lee Valley diamond lapping film.

I went for the Veritas planes, low angle jack, low angle smoothing and low angle block planes.

I have now sold my Tormek Supergrind and only use lapping film. I bought my first supply from Lee Valley along with their brilliant Veritas honing guide. In the UK the Woodworkers' Workshop carry everything you need for lapping, including the Veritas guide. I have been to visit them and they practice what they preach as their students use it as well.

I made a pair of videos about the lapping technique...

Part 1:



Part 2:



The key thing is to always do a gentle touch up at regular intervals rather than letting your planes and chisels go too far. Also, use fine oil rather than water as this removes the risk of rust.

Peter

 

[JayStPeter]

I like the Veritas  MkII and diamond lapping films.  And, I completely agree with Peter that touch-ups more often is best.  Where I diverge is I only use the lapping films for the quick touch-ups.  The bad part about the lapping films, eventually your secondary bevel gets bigger and it starts to wear out the film to quickly.  I use Norton stones to do major sharpenings.
I keep only two fine lapping films around on pieces of glass in a drawer.  I also keep a sharpie in there.  If I feel like the touch up is taking too much effort, I mark the primary bevel with the sharpie.  Between projects I'll do a sharpening day and haul everything with black bevels up for some work on the stones.  Keep the secondary bevel small and the touch-ups are very quick.
I think it exploits the best traits of both systems and minimizes the worst.  Stones are a bit of a hassle and I don't like dealing with the water in my shop.  I do that on the kitchen counters.  The film wears very quickly if you are removing a lot of metal (where the stones excel).
I admit, it's a pricey way to go having two sharpening systems.  But, fact is most of us wind up buying every stinking sharpening system/gadget available hoping it makes the task less tedious.  Once you get there, mix and match  [smile]

 

[jacko9]

I haven't used any of the sharpening films but, recently I started using the Shapton Glass water stones.  These are splash and go stones with no soaking required (and they actually discourage soaking because it loosens up the binder).

These stones stay flat for a long time and cut very quickly.

Jack

 

[Motown]

Congrats on your new planes? Is that the set they offer or did you hand pick?

 

[Discap]

If you want to use them a lot and not spend all of your time sharpening, then you should get a Work Sharp. Works great, fast and consistent.

I understand that using a stone etc. can be therapeutic but if you are using the planes them for hours per day it gets old.

Bill

 

[jacko9]

Personally I use the Veritas MkII sharpening guide with Shapton Water stones and it's a very fast and relatively inexpensive sharpening solution.

Jack

 

[Lbob131]

Those  are cracking  looking planes.
They must be  lie nielsons.

 

[shed9]

Thanks for all the replies, only just got time to dip back into the FOG, been stupidly busy.

This is all fantastic advice (as always) and those videos are fantastic Peter (as always). I suspect I may take away a little of all of it - if that makes sense.

I've not traditionally used a lot of hand tools to be honest but recently have started to do more as my business is slightly changing direction. I've got some basic half decent kit but am replacing this with higher end tools when and where I can, hence the Lie Nielsen's up there. I've also ordered a LN low angle block and the low angle jack as well although I seem to be waiting ages for these.

The planes were purchased from Germany and hand picked, I know they do packages but find end suppliers offer little options in these. Buying from Germany saved me close to 25% off UK prices and as it's all within the Euro commercial zone so no import duty 

I have some stones but they are not the best and also have some lapping plates and other bits associated with sharpening. I'm not a novice just never gave it serious thought before and did the bare minimum to get a tool to cut. I'm now looking to invest more time (and money  [unsure]) into my sharpening process.

I suspect I will dip into several aspects of the advice up there ^. I've definitely going to invest in some new stones and am currently looking at Naniwa or Sigma. I have plenty of lapping plates so I'm going to get some lapping film for regularly touch ups. I will also invest in a DMT plate for flattening the stones and for general use as well.

I looked at the Tormek (again 25% cheaper in Germany) however whilst it looks the mutts nuts, can't help feeling hand sharpening is the more controllable. Also looked at the Worksharp however all the demo videos show huge amounts of deflection on the wheel which seems counter intuitive when talking about precision bevels.

The Veritas guide seems an obvious choice but the additional advice makes this a no brainer.

Thanks all, will report back myself when I have more.

 

[DB10]

Thanks Shed for answering all the questions, one other quick one, you say you have been waiting ages, so what is the avarage lead time from ordering to delivery. Thanks.

 

[Bohdan]

Also looked at the Worksharp however all the demo videos show huge amounts of deflection on the wheel which seems counter intuitive when talking about precision bevels.

I have the worksharp and can't understand how a glass wheel can deflect. They also supply a perforated plastic wheel but I only use it go shape the blade angle with very course grit. It does deflect but I never use it for precision bevels.

Could you provide a link to these demo videos which show deflection.

 

[shed9]

Thanks Shed for answering all the questions, one other quick one, you say you have been waiting ages, so what is the avarage lead time from ordering to delivery. Thanks.

Hi DB10, I generally get deliveries from Europe to the UK in the same week. They are usually quite quick.

This particular delayed order has gone a bit west, the company lost my account details when they changed the look of the site then double charged me for my actual order and an order that wouldn't go through because of web errors. I get it that online shops change things but to screw up on card payments is a big no-no.

Also looked at the Worksharp however all the demo videos show huge amounts of deflection on the wheel which seems counter intuitive when talking about precision bevels.

I have the worksharp and can't understand how a glass wheel can deflect. They also supply a perforated plastic wheel but I only use it go shape the blade angle with very course grit. It does deflect but I never use it for precision bevels.

Could you provide a link to these demo videos which show deflection.

Bohdan, the video I saw is on You Tube and I think one of their own, the one where they show their rep demoing the device to woodworkers who then go on to have go. Anyhow the deflection was not in the flatness of the disc (as I'm aware it is glass) but the whole spindle assembly moves up and down. Given that this will affect the angle of the cut I assume it affects the results (albeit slight) but this didn't sit well with me watching a vendors video showing that much movement on a machine described as precision.

The link is here;



and you can see it at 53, 3.56, 4.41, 5.50, 8.05 and 8.42.

I know there are lots of happy Work Sharp users out there but  not sure I was convinced by the vid.

 

[jacko9]

Early in my work career I had to do a lot of metallurgical sample preparation and I can tell you based on my experience that trying to hold a flat face on a rotating flat wheel was for me almost impossible.

I did some experiments in diffusion welding where I had to get the mating interfaces flat and parallel and the metallographic rotating wheels just didn't give me a good result.

If I want a flat back to my plane irons I use either a lapping steel or hard water stones.  All of my sharpening these days is with the newer splash and go water stones either the Shapton Brand or the Nubatama Ume extra hard stones.

Jack