Granat vs Brilliant 2

[kelauben]

So, this is my first post to this forum.  I'm a new Festool owner and have picked up a Rotex 90 and love it.  It came with the new Granat paper and that has worked out well for some stripping applications on windows that needed refinishing.

As I went to restock my paper, I got the wrong part number and inadvertently ordered Brilliant 2 paper by mistake.  So, my question is, does anyone have any comments (constructive please ) with how these two papers compare?  I'm wondering if I should return the brilliant 2 and get the granat that I originally planned on ordering.  The task I will most often use these for is stripping and/or finish sanding wood.

Thanks in advance.

Karl

 

[windmill man]

Hi Kelauben,

Think the brilliant 2 will be fine but I too am getting my head around Festools abrasives.

And

[welcome]

John

 

[Guy Ashley]

Hi Kelauben

[welcome] to the FOG.

Windmill Man being a northerner has difficulty with reading ( [big grin])so for his benefit and yours I have attached a link to Festool USA Abrasive comparison brochure

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/abrasives_brochure.pdf

The Brilliant 2 is a wood abrasive for finer work, like sanding before finishing.

If you are looking to chew up old varnish and paint then the Granat is real good for that!

Oh and before anyone gets the hump, the quip about Windmill Man, is exactly that!

He is a friend and it is called "humour", the Brits tend to rip the piss out of each other, so no trauma's please! [blink]

 

[windmill man]

Hi Guy,

See your correspondence course with the UN Diplomatic  Services is coming in handy, again [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

The festool pd whatever does not even mention Granet.

Alex had to put me right on some down and dirty abrasive.

I shall now go and seek emotional support, on the web and in a glass, that will hopefully help me coupe with the trauma of the upset your comments have caused....................... [wink]

Later dude ,get back to the workshop and get them windows sorted or is it Merlot time [big grin] [big grin]

John

 

[kelauben]

Thanks for the comments thus far.  And before we go too far on Windmill Man, I must admit that while being a born and bred Iowegian, I am married to a Brit that has been on the colonies side of the pond for half her life.  She constantly attempts to remind me my place here in the states, but that may have a bit of just being my wife in the comments.  All's fair in love, war and the FOG.

k

 

[ccarrolladams]

My business is construction of new custom cabinets and related products. Therefore I have not removed any old finish for 20 years, long before I bought any Festools.

My shop does no finishing, so normally the finest grit I use is 120 or 140. Since I bought my first RO 150 I have used Rubin up to 120 and Brilliant 2 from 110 and finer.

Just before the RO 90 DX became available during the February 2011 Solid Surface class in Henderson, NV we used several grades of Granat. My RO 90 DX came with samples of Granat.

My limited experience has been that for sanding bare wood Granat has no advantage and costs more. The consensus is that Granat has no disadvantages, with the exception of price. Early on there was concern that Granat was designed for use with hard finishes and might cause problems with wood finishes. That has not proven to be so.

I deliberately made some tests using 110, 120 and 140 Granat. I asked finishing contractors who normally work with me to try those samples. They found no difference between Rubin, Brilliant 2 and Granat. That being the case I stick with Rubin as much as possible and switch to Brilliant 2 for the finer grits.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Alex had to put me right on some down and dirty abrasive.

I'm the Sandman [big grin]. I've got 6 Festool sanders and do a lot of paint work. There isn't a paper and grit I haven't tried out yet.

The festool pd whatever does not even mention Granet.

Granat is new. The pdf is a bit older and Festool hasn't updated it yet. Diamant isn't in it either. Oh bugger, scrap my statement above. I just realise I haven't tried Diamant yet.  [embarassed] But then again, who needs to sand a rock anyway.  :

The Brilliant 2 is a wood abrasive for finer work, like sanding before finishing.

This is not correct, Brilliant 2 is mainly meant for paint. But it is also Festool's best all-round paper so it is also suited for wood and a host of other applications. You name it, Brilliant 2 can do it.

If you are looking to chew up old varnish and paint then the Granat is real good for that!

It sure is. But no better than Brilliant 2.

As I went to restock my paper, I got the wrong part number and inadvertently ordered Brilliant 2 paper by mistake.  So, my question is, does anyone have any comments (constructive please ) with how these two papers compare?  I'm wondering if I should return the brilliant 2 and get the granat that I originally planned on ordering.  The task I will most often use these for is stripping and/or finish sanding wood.

Hi Karl, welcome to the forum. There is absolutely no reason to be disappointed with your Brilliant 2 paper or send it back. Before Granat came out it was the most used Festool paper, and it still is. I have used both Brilliant 2 and Granat side by side for over a year now and honestly, I don't see any difference at all. Maybe you could say Granat is a little bit less prone to clogging, but just a tad. Hardly noticeable. As for the result you get when sanding, there's no difference at all.

Granat was newly developed by Festool to have a paper that suits the new VOC compliant finishes that are mandatory now in the EU for a year. Since januari 2010 all paints here had to contain a smaller portion of volatile solvents. Previously most finishes had around 400g/L of solvents in them, and now they can only have 300g/L max. Which means there's a bigger portion of solids in them now, and many sandpaper manufacturers felt the need to bring new sandpapers on the market to suit those new finishes. Granat is what Festool came up with.

So maybe Granat is better with those new finishes then Brilliant 2. That I don't know. So far, I never had to sand those new finishes. After all, who's gonna repaint his house after only 1 year? So last year, I have smeared those new paints all over town but the stuff I've been sanding with Granat and Brilliant 2 were the old paints/finishes. And with those older finishes, Brilliant and Granat perform equally well.

The only material where I did see a difference between them was with sanding drywall/plaster. Granat was better for that because it took longer for the paper to fill up, so you could use it about 50% longer.

So when I go to the store to get some new sandpaper, I don't care if I come out with Granat or Brilliant 2. It depends on what they got in stock that moment. 80 percenty of the time this means I get Brilliant 2 because that's wat they got. Granat is only slowly conquering the market.
 
 

 

[windmill man]

Hi Karl and Alex

Not  trying to hijack your post. this is an abrasive related question for Alex.

Alex you recommended Saphir last night and after reading the pdf Guy put up . It recommends Titan 2 for scribing and crystal for heavy and fast stock removal and saphir for the same So you still sticking with the Saphir as I am ordering tomorrow.

Thanks Alex

Sorry Karl

John

 

[sancho57]

Well Im not alex but Ijust ordered a bunch of paper from Bob for my RO90.

I went to the chart that list the diferent types and grits of paper available for the sander.

I think if you go to the charton the FESTOOL ABRASIVES Thread , It will answer your question.

Sorry for interrupting

 

[AlexThePalex]

Alex you recommended Saphir last night and after reading the pdf Guy put up . It recommends Titan 2 for scribing and crystal for heavy and fast stock removal and saphir for the same So you still sticking with the Saphir as I am ordering tomorrow.

I didn't know Festool recommends Titan 2 for scribing solid surface. Been a while since I last read that pdf. I just figured that scribing is a heavy application as far as sanding is concerned and that it's best to do it with a paper with a strong backing and a hard pad for the sander. Saphir is ideal for that. But I guess 40 grit Titan is also pretty strong.

I wouldn't immediately think of using Titan outside of car body work. I've only used it on cars and a truck and a tractor. I once used Titan 400 on a door because I didn't have anything else with me, and that didn't go so well, clogged like crazy (car paints on the other hand, are very hard).  But if Festool recommends it for solid surface it'll probably do just fine but I don't think it'll be as fast and dirty as Saphir. But I don't know how Titan would do with the plywood backing while I'm sure Saphir would eat it like cornflakes for breakfast.

When it comes to the coarseness of an abrasive, equal grits between different types of paper don't make so much difference, especially when you get to grits as low as 50 or 40. Those grits more or less all have the same effect, remove material at the same rate and leave the same mess to clean up. Doesn't matter if you scribe with Titan 40 or Saphir 50, you still have to clean it up with higher grits paper to get a nice edge.

So in that aspect, I don't think Titan or Saphir will make much difference, but Saphir will be a lot stronger and last you longer. 

 

[junk731]

I have been using Granat with my ETS150 on a daily basis for about 3 weeks now. While it costs more, it out preforms rubin by lasting about 4x longer preparing wood, brilliant about 2x longer on wood and finishes and Cristal is about equal on wood in my opinion. The stuff is really hard to clog and wear out. Anything above 180 and its back to Brilliant for now.

John

 

[kelauben]

Thanks everyone for all the comments.  Learned a ton and will definitely be looking to FOG in the future for Festool questions and opportunities.  Also nice to know the Sandman is out there and ready to help.  More questions to follow.

Thanks again.

Karl

 

[Redfox]

Hi all,
around my waters, the different types cost the same, and I had greater success with Granat, so I stick to that, last longer.
Just my two-cent.

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I met Festool's Saulius Toleikis again at a Gary Katz rough carpentry clinic today.  He cleared up a little confusion I had over the Granat vs. Brilliant 2 paper that Alex was talking about last night.  They both have the same intended material use.  Both work really well for removing finishes on wood or metal, however the Granat has a ceramic coating on the abrasive that helps it stay cooler which results in less material loading of the discs and it stays sharper longer than the aluminum oxide of the Brilliant 2.

In speaking with Shane today, he informed me that Granat has a thinner backing compared to other Festool sandpaper so be careful near edges and corners so the paper won't tear.

 

[tbellemare]

Brilliant has a pretty thin back also compared to Rubin or Cristal, which makes it ideal for a lot of the LS 130 pads if you want to seat it tight to the curvature.

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

I met Festool's Saulius Toleikis again at a Gary Katz rough carpentry clinic today.  He cleared up a little confusion I had over the Granat vs. Brilliant 2 paper that Alex was talking about last night.  They both have the same intended material use.  Both work really well for removing finishes on wood or metal, however the Granat has a ceramic coating on the abrasive that helps it stay cooler which results in less material loading of the discs and it stays sharper longer than the aluminum oxide of the Brilliant 2.

In speaking with Shane today, he informed me that Granat has a thinner backing compared to other Festool sandpaper so be careful near edges and corners so the paper won't tear.

Ken,

The Granat has ceramic and aluminum oxide abrasive only in grits of 120 and lower, above 150 grit, that aluminum oxide only - all Granat, like Titan is sterated.

If you see Saulius tomorrow, say hi from me. He was one of Festool's original Managers - IIRC, he had pretty much NJ, NY all New England, PA and Ohio to cover. Bought my first Festool from him way back when. A year later, he was my manager.

Bob

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Bob, the show was only for today, but if he's also going to be at Gary's finish carpentry show on June 16th, I'll see him and say hello for you.

As for the Granat, now that's another twist thrown into the whole sandpaper deboggle.  Nobody mentioned till now about the ceramic coating only on certain grits.  I don't understand why that would be, unless there truly is no need for it above a certain grit level.  I guess at that point the Granat and Brilliant 2 become much more closely related.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Bob Marino]

Bob, the show was only for today, but if he's also going to be at Gary's finish carpentry show on June 16th, I'll see him and say hello for you.

As for the Granat, now that's another twist thrown into the whole sandpaper deboggle.  Nobody mentioned till now about the ceramic coating only on certain grits.  I don't understand why that would be, unless there truly is no need for it above a certain grit level.  I guess at that point the Granat and Brilliant 2 become much more closely related.

Thanks for the info!

Where's the show?

The abrasive itself  is ceramic and aluminum oxide, not the coating.

Bob

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Brilliant 2 is my favorite paper.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Where's the show?

Kuiken Brothers Co., Inc.
31 Route 10 East
Succasunna, NJ 07876