Guide rail alignment jig

[johne]

UCLA Fan,

I like that lip idea on the back of the block. I ll look into that
I put together a quick sketch of the lip you proposed combined with raising the front stop so you can put the jig upside down to get an accurate measurement of an existing piece. No measurement needed.

In this setup instead of hooking the tape measure over the front of the arm you can slide it up against it to get an arbitrary measurement.

Pic is pretty bad but i hope you get the idea

Thx for your input

[attachimg=#]

 

[mhch]

Great Jig! I agree that modifying the setup with the Incra system would be very nice. If you were to use their "incremental track" you would have the ultimate in repeatability! That being said, the cost would also be on the ultimate side :-[  I think the setup with Maple hardwood would be almost as stable. A good compromise might be standard t-track. It would be reasonable in terms of cost and certainly be more durable

The simple or double Incra tracks are reasonably cheap in Europe (8 - 15 euros).
It would not be hard to adapt the two wooden blocks.

Your setup is a wooden version of my first jig described inhttp://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2757.0,
using commercial rulers and stops. After that I came up with a more elaborate version using the MFT fence arm,
to be used as an MFT fence replacement. The benefit is that only one measurement and setup is needed because
the guide rail is guaranteed square with my fence. It also appears later  in the same thread.

Since then I replace the MFT fence arm by Incra incremental tracks,
50-70 Euros with the stop for the 18" and 36" version. But the longer 52" one is
around an awful 170USD without the stop since it must be ordered and shipped
from the US 

I use two such fences, one on each side of the rail so that the cut piece is on the right or left
side of the rail as needed. You could also  build 2 kinds of jigs, one as
the current one, and another one to be used on the right side of the rail.

Using  an MFT and a fence eliminates the need for two jigs, since the cut is
guaranteed square (and it can't slip, which happened to me with the ruler based version).

Your post gives me the idea of using a piece of metal exactly fitting the
blade cut line in the MFT (2.5mm wide with the blade I'm using). It can
be inserted / removed as needed to act as a temporary stop to use
an existing piece or a measurement stick instead of making a measurement.
More pics later.

 

[John Stevens]

I ll mess with it some more to see if i can get the 0.2mm difference out

Thanks for your great idea.  Just one comment--when I get anything dialed in to within 0.2mm, I figure that any discrepancy could be due to blade wobble, variations in the hardness or moisture content of the wood, inaccuracy of my measuring tools, operator error, or any combination of these factors.  I have no problem being accurate to "only" +/- 0.1mm!

Regards,

John

 

[nickao]

That precision is all you need for wood, I think your jig can be considered right on the money. The blade definitely can throw it out that much.

You are only about 4 hundredths of an inch off perfect, that is perfect! I can spit on a piece of wood and make it change that much!

Nice work!

Nickao

 

[Dan Lyke]

Since then I replace the MFT fence arm by Incra incremental tracks,
50-70 Euros with the stop for the 18" and 36" version. But the longer 52" one is
around an awful 170USD without the stop since it must be ordered and shipped
from the US 

Anybody played with threaded rod for indexing? I haven't looked at metric rod, but there's #8/32 at 32TPI, and I think 3/8" is 16TPI. Either some plumbers epoxy molded directly to the rod, or another length bent right should do indexing reasonably, and if you put the rod on bearings with a crank you'd have fine adjustment and indexing after that.

 

[nickao]

Oh my gosh 170.00 USD for the 52" incremental track!

That is near three times the price here, I got 4 of those on sale for less than 170.00! They are as bad as Festools over seas I guess. What the heck do you guys get cheaper than us, anything?

I have an extra Incra LS table saw system(threaded rod technology) I am going to attach to the MFT and guide rail. I will let you know how it goes.

Nickao

 

[UCLA Fan]

HI Johne,

Yeah that is pretty much what I had in mind for the "lip" but I would extend it down to just above the wood surface as well then you would have a dead accurate reference to the cutting edge (splinter guard) and could use the fence to "measure" a piece from either side of the guide. How about leaving your original edge block with the reference block having a "tape measure notch" then you could use the "jig" to measure inside or outside just by flipping it over. When you mount it in the precut position it would be exact either way. In addition you could use your tape to measure inside or outside as well. I like this idea because sometimes a measuring tape is off a bit from inside to outside measurements. I have seen plenty of tapes that are perfect when "pulled" but off when "butted" so if the jig allowed you to always use the same technique you could really reduce cumulative error. I know that sounds like over kill but I am a carpenter/woodworking and over long runs cumulative error is a big issue 

The Incra standard track is reasonably priced here in the states as well. Hey Dan the threaded rod is also a great idea, in fact Incra changed over to their "LS series" (Lead Screw) a few years ago for that very reason. For doing cuts from a pre-determined cut list your "LS idea" would be very nice indeed. Perhaps one could put a lead screw just on the last half inch or so of travel by adding a second fence.... hmmmm worth some thought I think.

Frank

 

[mhch]

Oh my gosh 170.00 USD for the 52" incremental track!

That is near three times the price here, I got 4 of those on sale for less than 170.00! They are as bad as Festools over seas I guess. What the heck do you guys get cheaper than us, anything?

I have an extra Incra LS table saw system(threaded rod technology) I am going to attach to the MFT and guide rail. I will let you know how it goes.

Nickao

That 52"track  is an exception, because of the shipping cost for such a long beast,
but it's true that I often order direct from the US what is not very supplier sensitive
(service, warantee). The 1.5 dollar / Euro and my past US professional background
makes it easy for me, which is certainly not the case for many woodworkers here.

The one which is cheap here is medical care (altthough we pay for it through taxes)
and all the social help, plus nice wine/cheese/bread/etc ... Despite many job offers,
I never wanted to move over to the US 

 

[mhch]

I would extend it down to just above the wood surface as well then you would have a dead accurate reference to the cutting edge (splinter guard)

The splinter guard often become worn out and not aligned with the blade side for various reasons,
like after changing the blade cut angle, or when the saw slightly wobble on the rail, or if you use the guide rail
with a router not being careful enough to verify the bit is not to close to the splinter guard (use a full rotation).

As a newbie,  I made all these mistakes, that's why I mention them 

Unless freshly cut, it may become off by 0.5mm. It needs regular maintenance if relied upon, i.e.
unstick it, move it, stick-it, re-cut it (can be done a few times before changing it to a new one).

Also keep in mind that all blades are not the same kerf ..

 

[Corwin]

Here's what I was working on before Steve started his thread on the MFT holes.  Just one of a few methods to do this using Incra Tracks.  This one utilizes piano hinges to speed up the operation.  Works fast and as accurate as anything else I've tried. 

The LS Positionor is a nice unit that can also be used for some similar operations.  Earlier rack-based versions can be converted for metric use (and back, if need be.)  The positionors are simple to align either on or off the MFT.  But, I do like the Track.  One day, I'll actually post that review I've been threatening, as there several neat things about these products.

Oops, almost forgot to include tonight's shot:

More to come...
Corwin

 

[semenza]

Unless freshly cut, it may become off by 0.5mm. It needs regular maintenance if relied upon, i.e.
unstick it, move it, stick-it, re-cut it (can be done a few times before changing it to a new one).

Also keep in mind that all blades are not the same kerf ..

Hi,

   One advantage of an Incra based set up is that they are very easy to re - zero. The scales on the positioners and the Scale Track can be adjusted very easily to compensate for worn anti-splinter strip, wood movement, etc.  The stops on the  tracks that Corwin shows lock in every 1/32" or (1mm on the metric?) and the stops can be micro adjusted.  The LS positioners lock in every 1/32" and have a continuous fine adjustment. 

    Very nice set up Corwin.  Didn't you show a different but similar one  a while ago?

   johne,  I think you have the best so far for something handy, accurate, and easy to work around, and take to a job site.   Your idea has revitalised this topic with some great stuff showing up.

Seth

 

[semenza]

Hi,

      Here is one that I came up with last night. If you have the OF1400 you probably have these items already.  It is a combination of the edge guide, and guide stop.  You can get 16" with the standard rods.  It has the micro adjust built into the edge guide.  I am not sure it could be reliably squared. I have not actually tried it yet so it might be OK. But it sure might be handy  when the need comes up on a job site (if you have the router with you). Or for something that is not too finicky.

Seth

 

[semenza]

Oh my gosh 170.00 USD for the 52" incremental track!

That is near three times the price here, I got 4 of those on sale for less than 170.00! They are as bad as Festools over seas I guess. What the heck do you guys get cheaper than us, anything?

I have an extra Incra LS table saw system(threaded rod technology) I am going to attach to the MFT and guide rail. I will let you know how it goes.

Nickao

Nick,

        Do you think thatthe LS table saw base can be attached to the MFT side profiles?  I have been trying to get my head around the idea of an LS positioner on the MFT for some time.  Can visualise a good way to make the positioner height adjustable for differing material thickness under it. I am picturing the guide rail in place of the table saw fence.

Seth

 

[UCLA Fan]

I would extend it down to just above the wood surface as well then you would have a dead accurate reference to the cutting edge (splinter guard)

The splinter guard often become worn out ....

Hi MHCH,

I see where you are going and it is a good point. However, since the splinter guard when first cut is pretty much dead on and the lip would be set from the guide rail block, then the splinter guard would not be an issue from that point forward. You see the "lip" would provide the reference for the cut not the splinter guard. Now you would certainly have to re-calibrate when changing the blade and might have too again for new bevel as well but that is a small price and won't take long. If one was really in the mood you could add a threaded screw fence to the edge of the cut line block/lip for micro adjustment to new blade (angle, etc...) this would have the advantage again of just a few trial cuts and you would be set - no measuring!

I am aware that not all blades have the same kerf and what would be great here is you could add a washer to your arbor for wide kerf (panther etc...) blades then adjust the lip to accommodate the new offset. Now the lip would be dead on the cut line and you could save your splinter guard  I am likeing this plan more and more  ;D

Frank

BTW: So as to not be confused by where I stand on this, I think the incra system is by far the best idea (I have the router fence myself) the rack or lead screw system would be awesome (Corwin: I love your setup). But I love this idea for it's simplicity and low cost. Great for a job site where you KNOW some knuckle head will break or steal it. In addition it is small and will not take alot of room in my van or shop!!! My shop is very small and space is always an issue  :-[

 

[mhch]

I do agree Johne's jig is by far the simplest and cheapest one, plus it does not require an MFT 
It's also an excellent portable solution.

I did not read (yet, that will come) the latest posts from Corwin and Seth. I'm always impressed
from the imagination power of the FOG members. The contest will even activate it more,
US and Canada imagination only ... 

 

[joraft]

... I'm always impressed from the imagination power of the FOG members.

I'll second that! Keep it coming, guys, I'm taking lots of notes here.

John

 

[nickao]

Nick,
        Do you think that the LS table saw base can be attached to the MFT side profiles?  I have been trying to get my head around the idea of an LS positioner on the MFT for some time.  Can visualise a good way to make the positioner height adjustable for differing material thickness under it. I am picturing the guide rail in place of the table saw fence.
Seth

Yes easily.

If you saw how my table saw is set up you will see that it would be really simple and only a couple of hours to modify it to the guide rails of the MFT - T slots. A lot more hassle modifying it to the V slot.

Even on my saw there is up down adjust ability the way the brackets attach to the rail. I will try to send you some pics later. I do not think it is important but you can add lead screw's to the front and rear to get precise up down movement. You can use the Kreg version they sell(for the band saw fence) or a woodhaven version, they would only need a little modification. But I think it is totally unnecessary. Just loosen the front and back knobs, slip the wood under the guide rail and let the guide rail rest on the wood, then tighten the knobs.

You can set it up with the spring loaded brackets for the Incra T slots also modified to work in the MFT - T slot. Then there will be absolutely no slop in the unit.

Nickao

 

[johne]

Everyone thanks for all your great suggestions, comments and thoughts!

I agree with mhch that the rubber strip becomes damaged and inacurate that is also one of the reasons i wanted something like this jig.
It works great sofar. The ony thing that i didn't like was the fact that you need to measure twice (once for each arm) To solve this i made a "measuring stick"
on which you set the desired distance and then use this to set the jigs(quicker and more accurate). I ll post a pic of it tomorrow cause i dont have a camera around right now.

This jig was made for the TS 75 with a 2,4mm blade. If you use the festool blades there's only 3 sizes 2,4mm and 2,6 mm and 2,2mm (for metal).
The difference in cut width on the side of the panel you're cutting if using another blade  is only 0,1mm(0.0039 inch). I can live with that

I really like all the other setups that were shown. Great stuff.

 

[joraft]

... The ony thing that i didn't like was the fact that you need to measure twice (once for each arm)

Johne, an alternative would be to use only one arm. It might take slightly longer to align the guide rail, but the distance would always be exactly the same.

John

 

[johne]

joraft,

It could be done that way but it will be harder to get a parallel cut. With the two arms all you do is click em on the giude rail slide the rail down the panel till the arms hookup to the side of the panel and you have a perfect parallel cut. I think the adjustable measuring stick takes care of possible measuring errors. Hard to explain without pictures... Wish i had a camera here lol