Guide Rail Compatibility

[ali]

So I'm looking at getting a TS75 (or if I can get away with it a TS55) but I will also need a guide rule set up as part of my workflow.

I'm on the lookout for a router, but 99% sure I will not go down the festool path on that one, so was wondering what other guide rules work on the Festool?

Does anyone know if the Makita,Dewalt or Bosch Guide rules work on the festool?

Does anyone use a TS without using the Festool guide rules? would be interested to know what else works and doesn't.

 

[semenza]

So I'm looking at getting a TS75 (or if I can get away with it a TS55) but I will also need a guide rule set up as part of my workflow.

I'm on the lookout for a router, but 99% sure I will not go down the festool path on that one, so was wondering what other guide rules work on the Festool?

Does anyone know if the Makita,Dewalt or Bosch Guide rules work on the festool?

Does anyone use a TS without using the Festool guide rules? would be interested to know what else works and doesn't.

Hi,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

Some other brands  of rails work and some don't. I am sure other members will  be able to provide that info.  The TS55 / 75 work best on the rails, and really that is the way they are designed to be used. Without the rail you lose all the guidance for perfect cuts.

Seth

 

[Kev]

Please give us some insight Ali, is this a price related issue to go non Festool (you're mentioning a range of brands) ?

Often the cost and effort to make things "compatible" far outweighs buying a system.

[welcome]

Kev

 

[tallgrass]

The system is really the way to go. That is the way you get the most synergies, the fewer the festoons the less the advantage and benefits. If there is another tool company that has more products you like, go with them. I am not saying love it or leave it, just that you will get the most out of Festool by using the system.  Bosch, and dewalt now have track systems. You mention that you are not going to use Festool routers, if that is your plan I would get the track saw from the company that makes your router of choice.

 

[nanook]

The festool routers sit a little outside of the system IMO.   
Other then the power cords, and guide rail brushing they dont really have any unique tie-in with the other tools IMO. 
You can use any router with the MFS w/ 30mm brushing, also Dewalt has a nice guide for their routers which fits the Festool/Makita guiderails.  However, that accessory may be discontinued, booo!

 

[JayStPeter]

I think the routers are part of the system.  If you are already carrying rails and a MFT to your site, they work with it.  I really like my OF 1400, it's a great router.

But  [eek], I don't really see a practical advantage of rail guided routers.  It takes the same fiddly setup as just clamping a piece of straight wood and using the edge of the router as a guide.  In fact, the little footie makes it less stable in that case.  My vote is to use the guide rail for the saw and just use the back side of the rail to guide any router straight.  I still do recommend Festool routers for functionality and dust collection.

 

[nanook]

See - just my point.  
Festool makes nice routers - but you dont gain any real synergies from going with their routers.     Also, with the DeWalt router/rail guide you can use Dewalt (and maybe PC, Bosch) routers with a MFT or rail.  

If you want to go the festool route and want to save money, seems to me that not buying their routers is an easy way to shave a few hundred off.   The 1400 doesn't even come stock with guide rail mounts!

I do like my OF1400, but I realize that it is easy to get a Dewalt router to do everything that it or the OF2200 does.   Just buy a Systainer for it and a rail guide and off you go!
The 1010 has some sweet, sweet ergonomics though

 

[Kev]

Strange concepts of what constitutes a system here ...

First we have the systainer storage system ... integrates with other storage "thingies" !
Next we have "plug-it" and dust extraction system - very useful.
Then we have the rail and clamping system - why would you want to carry yet another straight edge ??

So then we have CMS - in the wider world thats OF1010/1400/2200 working in the same setup as tracksaw, jigsaw, sander module ... all tied nicely with the MFT/3.

Festool have a great range of router accessories to go with their routers too, it's not like they just sell a few routers and trimmers and nothing else. I'm sure there's more that experienced users would add.

Other brands have their systems and each will have it's benefits.

Further to Festool's router offering, you get Festool service, support and warranty ... part of a customer support eco "system".

It's easy to dismiss any "one thing" in isolation.

Nobody cares if someone on the FOG decides to buy a Bosch router or the like, but do it with the right perspective ... that it meets your specific needs regarding price, functionality and service.

At a very simplistic level, routers route, saws saw and sanders sand ... I could go on - everyone gets to make their own choice of brand and model, but please don't dismiss Festool's attention to detail in making their routers part of the Festool system ... even right down to the colour and symbol "system".

 

[mouppe]

I think the routers are part of the system.  If you are already carrying rails and a MFT to your site, they work with it.  I really like my OF 1400, it's a great router.

But  [eek], I don't really see a practical advantage of rail guided routers.  It takes the same fiddly setup as just clamping a piece of straight wood and using the edge of the router as a guide.  In fact, the little footie makes it less stable in that case.  My vote is to use the guide rail for the saw and just use the back side of the rail to guide any router straight.  I still do recommend Festool routers for functionality and dust collection.

I would largely agree with you, but there are some instances where the rails are very useful. For example, in conjunction with the MFT fence and its flag stops, you can route repeatable grooves, dadoes etc. on multiple pieces.

 

[peter halle]

Regarding Festool routers and their application on a guiderail;  that is exactly why I bought mine.  I wanted the ability to route a perfectly straight line and only concentrating on the start and stop point, or not if I used the stops.

To be able to couple that with a MFT/3 and do dados at a fixed distance using a stop on multiple cabinet sides with accuracy - no brainer to me.  The list goes on from there.

I guess that using some other router  from another manufacturer in combination with the Festool products might work (I have no interest in checking) but to me the questions will always be:  Why didn't they (the other manufacturers) figure out a system rather than counting on someone else to do it for them?  Aren't they big enough a company?  

Just 2 cents.

Peter

 

[nanook]

I really like my Festool router, but I think its one part of the product line where it is very easy to go with another manufacture.  
I bought my 1400 b/c I LOVED the ergonomics on it (and the 1010 did not that 1/2 bits!).  Also I needed/wanted a router w/ the guide rails to Dado with, since I am using the MFT/TS55 to replace a table saw.

That said, while the TS55/75 and MFT really have a massive increase in features when used together, you do not really gain that much by being loyal to festool routers as part of their 'system'.   Festool routers are excellent tools.  Maybe IMO the best made routers on the market.
However for people who are buying a MFT and TS55/75 - but are value conscious: buying a $200 Bosch/Dewalt 2hp router w/guide/bases, a $60-80 Dewalt Rail Guide, and a $200 Jessem router table with maybe a $130 router lift - saves over $1,000 vs buying a OF1400, the edge guide (not included), festool rail guide, and basic CMS.  

Its basically a question of $450 vs $1800+ for a quality but fairly ordinary 2hp router and/or router table.    I think these are areas where if people are looking at working in a smaller footprint but are price conscious that Dewalt and Bosch routers w/ the Dewalt rail guide, hooked to a vac IMO work almost as well as my OF1400 for duct collection.

That said,  I love my tracksaw and my MFT - I'm just not convinced by the argument that festool routers are part of the 'system' though as a justification for their price.   If you want to talk about their quality, ergonomics, ect - OK, but as part of the system IMO there is better value out there.
However I'm waiting for the TS75 CMS inset to come to NA!   A portable festool table saw w/sliding table?!   heck Ya! (maybe then I'll be a believer on the CMS et al) [wink]

 

[mouppe]

I don't think you're comparing like with like.

What value are you placing on portability? Compatibility with the CT vacs, systainers, plug-it cords, MFTs, etc.? Space saving?

With the OF1400 and CMS, you can sell your other routers and have one router that goes in a router table and is a plunge router as well. I think cost is only one part of the equation, and spread over the life of a Festool and its high retained value in used condition, I think it's very cost effective.

 

[nanook]

I think the point is that for routers, Festool makes really nice routers, but if you want to use the router on the MFT, it may be much more economical to buy the other guys routers. Easy enough to put any tool in a systainer.   You get the same function for lower cost - as for quality/durability, who knows.   I like my festools.    
I think the Festool routers are great tools, but maybe 20% overpriced.    Also, until Festool starts to offer TS55/75 plates for the CMS in NA - I think the festool routers seem not to offer much more functionality.   Reason's I'd buy a CMS in a hearbeat?  1. precise portable table saw /w sliding table.  2. OF2200 & sharper head!  Portable workshop sized/quality tools?!  Oh ya!
Today though, I think dollar for dollar, its hard to recommend the festool routers as anything other then just really nice handheld routers.  

Not what I'd recommend to people like the OP who are just starting out in an expensive hobby.  For the OP, I'd advise the MFT, TS and CT, but that there might be better value in routers elsewhere (which would still work with the festool system above)

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

This is a very interesting discussion I think. It is drifting away a bit from the OP's initial question or at least takes that question a bit broader.

In all honesty I think one can approach the 'system' concept on different levels. I don't see the complete Festool catalogue as a system, more as a group of systems. Domino-system. router-system, tracksaw-system, jigsaw-system etc. Other than the plug-it connection for corded tools and systainer (not exclusive to Festool btw) the tools come in, the groups of tools don't have that much system in common.
For instance; The family of routers share parts and are a system in itself but can easily be used with a different brand vac and will probably never share parts with other families like the jigsaw or track saws if you are not getting the CMS table. Which is something to consider as it is quite pricey. Not saying it is too expensive btw, that totally depends on what use you have for it. For rail use a wooden jig is quickly made to adept a different brand router to a Festool rail. In any case, unless you go all the way and get the CMS too, you can easily mix Festool routers with a different brand jigsaw or vice versa and sticking to the Festool family doesn't bring you that much extra 'system'.

A lot can be said on the subject. I've been creating my own system for some time now and have been looking at and buying other brands to mix with Festools and find it brings me unique qualities I wouldn't have had when sticking to Festool exclusively. I'm just saying you should always keep an open mind and consider what qualities in a tool are important for you.
I have only used the FS rail with a router a couple of times, a quick diy jig would have made a yellow router as good as my Festool. I have no use for the CMS system as I have a table saw and prefer a dedicated router table with a router fixed to it at all times. My tracksaw with dedicated vac and dedicated rail are used almost exclusively in the shop, changing the Festool saw with a Mafell would change nothing for me system-wise. I use my C12 together with 9.6 volt Bosch drills and a big Protool, other than systainers they share nothing, the special chucks fit only on the C12, a small system within my system if you like. My Fein and Bosch jigsaw are fitted with plug-its and share a sys1 to become a problem solving system of sorts that have nothing to do with Festools  except for the plug-it connection. Other example; the guide on my Precisio 70 also fits the MFT so that's a system right? I've tried to use it a couple time but find no use for it in my case. Maybe some day but for now that system brings me nothing and doesn't fit my system.

All I'm saying is, see if a tool fits your system.  I love Festool but also see they need to stick to the system concept as it is part of what they sell. When reading the Festool catalogue I can't help but notice I find the word system becomes somewhat hollow for me as a lot of the system they propose doesn't work for me. But that's in my case, your situation is likely totally different and that is exactly my point.

To the OP, I would get the Festool track saw and rail and mix it with your router of choice through a quick jig.

 

[jonathan-m]

I side more or less with Bob on this. I own quite a bit of Festool. But there are many great other tools out there and I refuse to wall myself in and lock myself out of all the great solutions that are out there.
Festool offers a great line-up, probably the most extensive one out there and it all just works. But that doesn't mean it's the best or most efficient way of doing things. Neither does Festool make all the best tools for every task.
Why would I buy an expensive Festool that's inferior to another, just because it's a Festool and fits in "the system"? Instead I try to find a workflow & synergy that suits me best personally by combining different systems by different brands I like work together.

For example I used to own a TS55 & Carvex and those got replaced with the Mafell counterparts. Of couse it broke the so called "system" & synergy of the TS & MFT/3. I even replaced one of the crucial components.
What's different about them? They don't have a plug-it lead and they use a different rail. So I added a plug-it lead to the tools and I mounted a Mafell rail onto my MFT/3. For my OF-1400 I adjusted the rail adapter by inserting a plexiglass shim so it rides the new rail. Why? Because I like the tools and the rail better than the ones Festool offer.

Granted, I takes work and jigs & shims & it's not idiot proof ready out of the box. I fully understand not everyone has the time or motivation to compromise like this, but I firmly believe I'm using better tools now that make me more productive & that makes me happier while I'm doing it. And in the end that's what's important to me.
Systems are great, but to enjoy them you have to spend tons of money on all kinds of accessories to tap into their full potential. And by doing so you're locking yourself out of all the other great solutions other manufacturers have thought up.

I'm a tinkerer and I like to create things. Taking on these kind of challenges and thinking up ways to improve the way I work make me happy. So no, I'd never lock myself out of a better experience just to stay in the Festool system. If you like another router better than a Festool router, go for it.

 

[JayStPeter]

I think the routers are part of the system.  If you are already carrying rails and a MFT to your site, they work with it.  I really like my OF 1400, it's a great router.

But  [eek], I don't really see a practical advantage of rail guided routers.  It takes the same fiddly setup as just clamping a piece of straight wood and using the edge of the router as a guide.  In fact, the little footie makes it less stable in that case.  My vote is to use the guide rail for the saw and just use the back side of the rail to guide any router straight.  I still do recommend Festool routers for functionality and dust collection.

I would largely agree with you, but there are some instances where the rails are very useful. For example, in conjunction with the MFT fence and its flag stops, you can route repeatable grooves, dadoes etc. on multiple pieces.

Yeah, I think we're in violent agreement here.  Especially doing work outside of a shop.  If you are already carrying rails and MFT, it makes a LOT of sense to carry a compatible router and use the system as designed.  In the shop, I prefer to use shop made jigs to do the same kinds of jobs you describe.  The OP was asking about rail guides for routers.  My honest answer is that if you don't have all the other stuff, I don't think he should bother to worry about that.

There is a thread right now asking what Festool is your favorite that you wouldn't give up.  If I was to be asked the opposite, I would answer the OF1400.  I really like the OF1400, but compared head to head to other tools I have it doesn't rise above as much as some other Festools.  Being that I pre-date plug-it with my ATF55, I don't get that advantage.  The other advantages of the OF1400 over my Bosch as I see it are: 1 wrench bit changes, quick tool-less accessories (edge guide, DC ports), slight (very slight) advantage in dust collection for some operations.  There is also a pretty significant disadvantage.  The depth turret is not as nice as the Bosch so I still use the Bosch often for operations where I have to do multiple plunges to reach a final depth.  I've gotten hosed by the "in between detent" in the OF1400s mechanism a few times.  Unless someone is "all in" on the Festool system, I don't know that the advantages justify the buy in for this particular tool.  If you're using the full system, there is no question.

 

[fdengel]

To be able to couple that with a MFT/3 and do dados at a fixed distance using a stop on multiple cabinet sides with accuracy - no brainer to me.  The list goes on from there.

Let's not forget the LR32 system...