GUIDE RAILS

EASYYARDS

Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
6
HI EVERYBODY,

I AM JUST ABOUT TO PURCHASE MY FIRST FESTOOL TOOL. I AM GOING FOR A TS 75 GUIDE RAIL PLUNGE SAW. MY VERY SIMPLE QUESTION IS THIS, (ALTHOUGH SIMPLE I CAN'T GET A DIFFINATIVE ANSWER FROM MY LOCAL STOCKIST), HOW MUCH OVER HANG OF GUIDE RAIL IS NEEDED?
FOR INSTANCE IF I WANT TO CUT A 2400MM SHEET DO I NEED A 2400 MM GUIDE RAIL OR DO I NEED THE 2700 GUIDE RAIL WHICH WOULD GIVE ME AN OVER HANG AT THE START OF THE SHEET, THEREFORE I WOULD BE ABLE TO PLACE THE WHOLE SAW ON THE TRACK IN FRONT OF THE SHEET. I WOULD IMAGINE YOU WOULD NEED THE SAW FULLY ENGAGED ON THE RAIL TO PREVENT LATERAL MOVEMENT.
THEN DO I ALSO NEED AN OVER HANG OF RAIL THE OTHER SIDE TO BRING THE SAW SAFELY OFF OF THE SHEET WHILST STILL FULLY GUIDED?
I THINK I AM RIGHT IN SAYING THE TS 75 IS APPROXIMATELY 400MM LONG, THEREFORE FOR A 2400 MM CUT WOULD I NEED 2400 MM PLUS 400 MM TO LOCATE ON THE RAIL AT THE START AND 400 MM OVER HANG AT THE OPPOSITE END TO GUIDE THE SAW AFTER IT LEAVES THE SHEET? IF THIS IS RIGHT I WOULD NEED A GUIDE RAIL 3200 MM LONG TO CUT A 2400MM LONG SHEET. IS THIS RIGHT.
FESTOOL ONLY DO A 3000 MM GUIDE, SO NOT LONG ENOUGH, I WOULD HAVE TO JOIN A 1400 AND A 1900 MM TO GET 3300 MM.
SORRY IF THIS IS BASIC BUT I AM FED UP WAITING FOR THE GUY TO RING ME BACK ONCE HE HAS SPOKEN TO THE FESTOOL REP.

REGARDS,

EASYYARDS.
 
Hello Easyyards,
I don't know what the official Festool policy is on your question, but here's what I do....

I like enough overhang at the start to have the saw fully plunged before it enters the workpiece.  This is my preference.  One could certainly plunge the saw while it is already on the workpiece, perhaps estimate 1/2 the length of your saw for this (I have the TS55, not sure of dimensions of the 75). 

At the end of the cut, I leave about 2/3 of the saw on the workpiece, just bringing it forward enough to fully complete the cut. 

I cut mostly sheet goods and stock 1 inch or so thick.  For thicker pieces, I suspect I would want more clearance.

I suspect the techniques used out there vary a lot, but this has worked safely and effectively for me.
 
You absolutely need extra guide rail at the front of the cut , and none is needed at the end of the cut.
Enough to start the plunge and have it fully engage the material. Otherwise you have a little nip of material that is not cut at the start of your board.
 
EASYYARDS said:
... I WOULD NEED A GUIDE RAIL 3200 MM LONG TO CUT A 2400MM LONG SHEET. IS THIS RIGHT.
FESTOOL ONLY DO A 3000 MM GUIDE, SO NOT LONG ENOUGH, I WOULD HAVE TO JOIN A 1400 AND A 1900 MM TO GET 3300 MM.

REGARDS,

EASYYARDS.

I have the TS75 and the 3000mm guide rail, and I think it's the perfect combination for ripping 8 ft. (2438.39 mm) sheets. I do place most of the overhang at the start of the cut.

And, opinions do vary on this, but I prefer not to use joined guides.

John
 
For the TS55, the lowest part of the plunging blade appears to be located right
below the mid-length of the base  It thus seems that one half base length overhang
is at most needed at the end of the work piece to be fully safe.

Assuming the TS75 has the same plunge geometry, a fully safe approach
requires 1.5 base length overhang, 1 at start, 0.5 at the end. That makes
2400 + 400 + 200 = 3000mm.

 
You need enough guide rail at the start of the cut to avoid having the riving kife hit the material as you plunge, and to cut all the way through the material.  Part of that equation is how thick the material is that you are cutting and how deep you set the depth of cut on the saw.  General rule for me - allow most of the saw to sit on the rail in front of the material at the start of the cut.  At the end of the cut you need just enough rail for the blade to complete the cut - not much rail over the end.  Translating to numbers, a 55" rail is sufficient to cut a 48" piece of material - I'll let you translate that to mm. :)
 
A picture is worth a thousand words, and in this case two models are even better than one picture. The rail needs to be longer than the stock you are cutting.
 
Daviddubya said:
You need enough guide rail at the start of the cut to avoid having the riving kife hit the material as you plunge, and to cut all the way through the material.  Part of that equation is how thick the material is that you are cutting and how deep you set the depth of cut on the saw.  General rule for me - allow most of the saw to sit on the rail in front of the material at the start of the cut.  At the end of the cut you need just enough rail for the blade to complete the cut - not much rail over the end.  Translating to numbers, a 55" rail is sufficient to cut a 48" piece of material - I'll let you translate that to mm. :)

David,

To cross-cut a 4' x 8' sheet, would you want a longer rail for use with a TS 75 saw which has a longer base than the TS 55 saw?  I have a TS 55 and I usually set the 55" guide rail just as you have described.

Dave R.
 
Keep in mind how you'll be using the rails as well. If you are never going to leave your garage, get a 3000mm rail. But they're a little difficult to transport and although joining rails can be a little bit of a chore, shorter ones are much easier to transport.
 
Eli said:
Keep in mind how you'll be using the rails as well. If you are never going to leave your garage, get a 3000mm rail. But they're a little difficult to transport and although joining rails can be a little bit of a chore, shorter ones are much easier to transport.

I have to keep reminding myself that there are two distinct camps here. Those who must often consider portability above all else, and those who have the luxury of placing convenience first.

John

 
Thanks alot guys for your expert and informative comments.
Brice you are right a picture paints a thousand words, when you see it in the picture its obvious. 400mm in front of the board to sit the saw fully on the rail, 2400 for the board and half the length of the saw, 200mm, at the end because from the centre of the saw, where the saw teeth are at there lowest point to the end of the saw is 200mm.
Mhch very well explained also, thanks.

I have the TS75 and the 3000mm guide rail, and I think it's the perfect combination for ripping 8 ft. (2438.39 mm) sheets. I do place most of the overhang at the start of the cut.

And, opinions do vary on this, but I prefer not to use joined guides.

John


kinda with you on that one john. I just feel a continuous length will be more accurate, but I guess 3000mm lengths and above really need to stay put in the workshop and smaller lengths joined together are much more convenient for site work and regular transportation.

Many thanks again,

Regards,

Easyyards.
 
Hi,
 
        Assuming that you want enough extra rail at the start and end of the cut to avoid plunging into the material , and for the center / low point of the blade to clear the cut at the end. Then you will want the 3000 for 8' cuts with the TS75. You will also want the 1900 for 4' cuts with the TS75. I have the TS55 and still prefer these longer lengths over the rails that provide just enough clearance.  If you need ot be portable then joining two shorter ones to get approx. 3000 needs to be a consideration.  You wil probably still want the 1400 it is handier for shorter cuts.  Here are some threads too-
                    http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2472.0
     
                    http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1565.0

Seth
 
EASYYARDS said:
I AM JUST ABOUT TO PURCHASE MY FIRST FESTOOL TOOL. I AM GOING FOR A TS 75 GUIDE RAIL PLUNGE SAW. MY VERY SIMPLE QUESTION IS THIS, (ALTHOUGH SIMPLE I CAN'T GET A DIFFINATIVE ANSWER FROM MY LOCAL STOCKIST), HOW MUCH OVER HANG OF GUIDE RAIL IS NEEDED? FOR INSTANCE IF I WANT TO CUT A 2400MM SHEET DO I NEED A 2400 MM GUIDE RAIL OR DO I NEED THE 2700 GUIDE RAIL...?

The Festool USA website has a Frequently Asked Questions database athttp://www.festoolusa.com/faq/afmtopics.asp, and I believe that the following FAQ will answer your query:

---------------
Question :
What is the appropriate length guide rail needed to rip 8' sheet goods? 
 
Answer :
For the TS 55, the FS 2700 (2700mm or 106?) guide rail is ideal for rip cuts on sheet goods as you avoid starting with a plunge cut, and you finish with both guide rail gib cams -- the knobs to adjust lateral alignment ? on the rail for a perfect, straight cut.

The FS 1400 (1400mm or 55?) guide rail is perfect for cross cuts for the same reason, there is extra room to start and finish your cut. Two FS 1400?s can be joined using guide rail connectors to make an 110? guide rail to rip sheet goods.

For the TS 75, the FS 3000 (3000mm or 118?) guide rail is ideal for rip cuts on sheet goods as the saw table or is larger than on the TS 55 and requires a longer rail.

The FS 1900 (1900mm or 75?) guide rail is perfect for cross cuts for the same reason, there is extra room to start and finish you cut. An FS 1900 can be joined with an FS 1400 using guide rail connectors to make an 130? guide rail to rip sheet goods.
-----------------

The database has lots of useful information in it, and you might want to check out the General, Sawing, Guide System and Warranty sections in particular.

Forrest

 
To break down panels, you're going to need two guides.  The only question is whether you get a long rail for rips and a short for crosses, or two shorts and join them for long rips. 

I've got a TS75 and started with a pair of 1400 rails, which were just long enough to rip an 8' sheet.  But I got tired of constantly joining/disassembling the two rails to switch between rips and cross-cuts, so I eventually got a 3200 rail (the 3000 is long enough - just happened to find someone selling 3200 second-hand at the right time).  Working in the shop, I love the single long rail for ripping - but it would be impractical to use it for cross-cuts.  You really need a shorter rail for crosscuts and working with smaller pieces.

A note on joining two rails -- without a dead-flat surface to align the sections on, I find it difficult to mate two short rails perfectly straight.  I usually end up with a slight dip or bow in the cut - maybe 1-2 millimeters deflection -- good enough for panel cuts - but not jointer-straight.  With a single rail and a good blade, cuts are glue-up ready.

Were I buying a saw today, I think I'd choose the 55 over the 75.  There's a cost savings in both the saw and blades, and the 55's smaller size/weight makes it easier to handle.  The only real benefit I see with the 75 is if you're batch cutting plywood, you can stack one more sheet of 3/4" material.

 
JeffeVerde said:
To break down panels, you're going to need two guides.  The only question is whether you get a long rail for rips and a short for crosses, or two shorts and join them for long rips. 

I've got a TS75 and started with a pair of 1400 rails, which were just long enough to rip an 8' sheet.  But I got tired of constantly joining/disassembling the two rails to switch between rips and cross-cuts, so I eventually got a 3200 rail (the 3000 is long enough - just happened to find someone selling 3200 second-hand at the right time).  Working in the shop, I love the single long rail for ripping - but it would be impractical to use it for cross-cuts.  You really need a shorter rail for crosscuts and working with smaller pieces.

A note on joining two rails -- without a dead-flat surface to align the sections on, I find it difficult to mate two short rails perfectly straight.  I usually end up with a slight dip or bow in the cut - maybe 1-2 millimeters deflection -- good enough for panel cuts - but not jointer-straight.  With a single rail and a good blade, cuts are glue-up ready.

Were I buying a saw today, I think I'd choose the 55 over the 75.  There's a cost savings in both the saw and blades, and the 55's smaller size/weight makes it easier to handle.  The only real benefit I see with the 75 is if you're batch cutting plywood, you can stack one more sheet of 3/4" material.

If you dont mind taking a minute to join and align the rails before you make a rip then take them apart to make a cross cut then by all means buy another short rail. That would drive me nuts and throw my carpenter efficiency rating out the window.

The ts75 will cut through 3 sheets at a time but you have to make sure that it is cutting at 90 deg. dead nuts or the third sheet will be a different dimension than the top. I own the TS75 and mainly work with solid lumber. I would prefer the ts55 for cabinet building.

Eiji
 
Hi guys,

More great answers, let the full length against joined shorter length debate rage!!!

Regards,

Easyyards.
 
??? Like we don't argue about enough irrelevant stuff already?

That's pretty much all there is to it. Not too much else to argue about there. ;)

 
JeffeVerde said:
A note on joining two rails -- without a dead-flat surface to align the sections on, I find it difficult to mate two short rails perfectly straight.  I usually end up with a slight dip or bow in the cut - maybe 1-2 millimeters deflection -- good enough for panel cuts - but not jointer-straight.  With a single rail and a good blade, cuts are glue-up ready.

When joining two guide rails, I use either a third guide rail or a 4 ft precision level to buck up against the back edges of the guide rails being joined to help ensure they form a straight line.  I start with the top sides of the rails facing up on the sheet of material I intend to cut.  I've found it helpful for me to first snug down the set screws on the connector that are visible on the top side, then to carefully flip over the joined rails and snug up the set screws in the connector that is visible from the underside of the rails.  I also have to confess that I recently decided to get a single long rail so I don't have to go through this joining procedure to cut 4x8 sheet goods.

Dave R.
 
 Translating to numbers, a 55" rail is sufficient to cut a 48" piece of material - I'll let you translate that to mm. :)
[/quote]

1" = 25.4 mm, so:

55" = 1397mm
48"= 1219.2mm
 
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