Hammer A3 31 dust collection, is 1250 CFM dust collector good enough?

[lshj]

I recently just ordered a Hammer A3 31 jointer planer combo due to good discount, will get it in December.  I have just bought a Dust Right wall mount 1250 CFM dust collector with canister filter from Rockler, and connected to a Oneida dust Deputy 4" Deluxe. I bought the dust collector for the Laguna 14BX bandsaw that I ordered but it's on back order and I have no idea when I could get it.  I have tried the 1250 CFM dust collector and it seems to have good suction and less noisy than my Ridgid shop vac although I have no machine to connect yet.

Just read a review saying that the 1250 CFM dust collector is not powerful enough for his 12" jointer.  The A3 31 is a 12" jointer planer combo, I am wondering any A3 31 owners have tried to use it with similar strength dust collector around 1250 CFM? Is this good enough? I have never owned a jointer or planer before so this is my first jointer.  I choose the jointer/planer combo because of limited space in my small garage. I choose Dust right wall mount dust collector because it takes less space.  I have no idea what kind of dust collector is good enough for this machine, but I definitely prefer smaller equipment than large one due to space issue. 

 

[GarryMartin]

The A3-31 requires 500CFM (814m3/h),  at a vacuum of 3"WC (740 Pa). It has a 120mm inlet.

I have a Felder AF-12 (1350m3/h) on my Hammer A3-26 and it's more than enough.

 

[Mini Me]

There is a truism in dust collection and that is every single DE out there exaggerates the flow figures by a LOT, the only exception I know of is Clearvue who do not specify any at all. Trying to measure air flow is like trying to round up cats and requires special measuring equipment.

 

[bertv]

The answer to your question also depends on whether you bought the base model or the Silent Power version (spiral cutter). The latter produces smaller chips but a larger volume (air!).

I own the A3 31 SP and use a Felder AF14, which works fine. As per Felder the AF14 has an airflow of 1383 cpm.

 

[lshj]

The A3-31 requires 500CFM (814m3/h),  at a vacuum of 3"WC (740 Pa). It has a 120mm inlet.

I have a Felder AF-12 (1350m3/h) on my Hammer A3-26 and it's more than enough.

Thank you for the information. So I would assume the dust right 1250 cfm would be just fine.

 

[lshj]

The answer to your question also depends on whether you bought the base model or the Silent Power version (spiral cutter). The latter produces smaller chips but a larger volume (air!).

I own the A3 31 SP and use a Felder AF14, which works fine. As per Felder the AF14 has an airflow of 1383 cpm.

Yes, it comes with the spiral cutter. When I ordered it, the sales rep told me that almost every machine they sell today comes with spiral cutter, it becomes the standard package now.

 

[lshj]

There is a truism in dust collection and that is every single DE out there exaggerates the flow figures by a LOT, the only exception I know of is Clearvue who do not specify any at all. Trying to measure air flow is like trying to round up cats and requires special measuring equipment.

Probably 1250 CFM is the maximum which only happens during ideal situation. With all the duct hose and different connections, I am sure the actual flow at the machine will drop a lot. I have a Rigid 5 gallon small shop which has 97 cfm, and then bought a festool CI MIDI dust extractor which has 130 cfm. When I connect to similar hose, I personally can't feel any significant difference in term of strength of suction power between these two machine. 

 

[Joelm]

I have the rockler dust collector you mention. I removed the 4" wye connection which left a 6" port in the extractor itself. I now use a 6" hose going to my oneida dust deputy. I connected the 6" hose using a 6" to 5" reducer after I realized the 4" port on my dust deputy was a 5" to 4" reducer. I get a lot more suction now that I did before. I'm not sure what the numbers would be but the the dust collector with lift the dust deputy off the ground a little when it's empty.

 

[kevinculle]

I have a Jet 1100 CFM (nominal) dust collector that does just fine with my DeWalt DW-735 13" planer equipped with a Byrd Shelix insert head.  I am using 4" PVC plumbing and the collector has a 30 gallon separator with a Thein baffle.

 

[lshj]

I have the rockler dust collector you mention. I removed the 4" wye connection which left a 6" port in the extractor itself. I now use a 6" hose going to my oneida dust deputy. I connected the 6" hose using a 6" to 5" reducer after I realized the 4" port on my dust deputy was a 5" to 4" reducer. I get a lot more suction now that I did before. I'm not sure what the numbers would be but the the dust collector with lift the dust deputy off the ground a little when it's empty.

My Oneida dust deputy has 4" connection. I bought this before I decided to buy the hammer A3 31. I thought these machine might all use 4" dust connection, but didn't realize that Hammer A3 31' has a 120mm dust port, or close to 5". If I knew earlier, I would definitely buy the 5"' dust deputy instead of 4".

 

[lshj]

I have a Jet 1100 CFM (nominal) dust collector that does just fine with my DeWalt DW-735 13" planer equipped with a Byrd Shelix insert head.  I am using 4" PVC plumbing and the collector has a 30 gallon separator with a Thein baffle.

It's good to know that 1100cfm with 4" duct works good for the 13" planer. I may just wait and see if 4" dust hose works or not. If not, maybe upgrade to 5" duct, definitely better than upgrade the 1250 cfm dust collector. I am kind of like this 1250 cfm dust collector,  really low noise, similar or maybe even quiter than my festool CT MIDI.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=76675]lshj[/member] The Dewalt 735 is not a good thing to compare against. It has an internal fan to move the dust through the unit. To be honest I never used the dust collector on mine i just laid the hose out the garage door and let it blow away.

As has been mentioned earlier, the generally accepted fact is that pretty much everyone fudges their CFM numbers on dust collectors. Using at best testing lab perfect conditions and not the real world. I think you will probably have to just wait and see what happens when you actually get the machine. If it works that'll be great. If you think the unit might be capable of a better job then try going up a size in your hose and see if you can also reduce the run of the hose as that will help as well.

Ron

 

[RobS888]

I have a Jet 1100 CFM (nominal) dust collector that does just fine with my DeWalt DW-735 13" planer equipped with a Byrd Shelix insert head.  I am using 4" PVC plumbing and the collector has a 30 gallon separator with a Thein baffle.

It's good to know that 1100cfm with 4" duct works good for the 13" planer. I may just wait and see if 4" dust hose works or not. If not, maybe upgrade to 5" duct, definitely better than upgrade the 1250 cfm dust collector. I am kind of like this 1250 cfm dust collector,  really low noise, similar or maybe even quiter than my festool CT MIDI.

We have that dust collector with the cartridge filter and a Jet 12 inch jointer planer with a helical head. We have a Grizzly cyclone called a Growler right before the Rockler DC, so I imagine some of the suction is being used up by the Growler. (my wife has a big lathe and the fist time a piece of bark went bong inside the Rockler DC we got the Growler...

Anyway, even with a 4 inch hose from the Growler to the Jet 12HH, all of the chips and dust are collected... occasionally some chips are on the planer bed after sending in a wide board through or a few narrow boards side by side.

I have no complaints about the set up.

P.S as mentioned the type of head would be more important. I used to have a 3 knife Rigid planer and it made long strings that seemed to hook on anything going through the hose. 

 

[lshj]

I have a Jet 1100 CFM (nominal) dust collector that does just fine with my DeWalt DW-735 13" planer equipped with a Byrd Shelix insert head.  I am using 4" PVC plumbing and the collector has a 30 gallon separator with a Thein baffle.

It's good to know that 1100cfm with 4" duct works good for the 13" planer. I may just wait and see if 4" dust hose works or not. If not, maybe upgrade to 5" duct, definitely better than upgrade the 1250 cfm dust collector. I am kind of like this 1250 cfm dust collector,  really low noise, similar or maybe even quiter than my festool CT MIDI.

We have that dust collector with the cartridge filter and a Jet 12 inch jointer planer with a helical head. We have a Grizzly cyclone called a Growler right before the Rockler DC, so I imagine some of the suction is being used up by the Growler. (my wife has a big lathe and the fist time a piece of bark went bong inside the Rockler DC we got the Growler...

Anyway, even with a 4 inch hose from the Growler to the Jet 12HH, all of the chips and dust are collected... occasionally some chips are on the planer bed after sending in a wide board through or a few narrow boards side by side.

I have no complaints about the set up.

P.S as mentioned the type of head would be more important. I used to have a 3 knife Rigid planer and it made long strings that seemed to hook on anything going through the hose.

That's great to hear.  If it works for your Jet 12HH, it very likely will work for the Hammer A3 31.

 

[lshj]

[member=76675]lshj[/member] The Dewalt 735 is not a good thing to compare against. It has an internal fan to move the dust through the unit. To be honest I never used the dust collector on mine i just laid the hose out the garage door and let it blow away.

As has been mentioned earlier, the generally accepted fact is that pretty much everyone fudges their CFM numbers on dust collectors. Using at best testing lab perfect conditions and not the real world. I think you will probably have to just wait and see what happens when you actually get the machine. If it works that'll be great. If you think the unit might be capable of a better job then try going up a size in your hose and see if you can also reduce the run of the hose as that will help as well.

Ron

Thank you.  I realized that there are so many things that could affect the air flow.  I have tried to connect 1250 CFM dust collector  to the 1 7/8 hose that came with the Ridgid shop vac  using the reducer, try to use it as a shop vac for regular floor cleaning.  The result is so disappointing, the air flow at the end is so much weaker than the Ridgid shop vac with the 1 7/8 hose.  I have a 4" to 2 1/2 hose reducer that could connect to 2 1/2 hose, I have not tried it yet because I don't have 2 1/2 hose, but I doubt the result is significantly  better.  Dust right has the 4' floor sweep, but it's very bulky.

 

[Mini Me]

The A3-31 requires 500CFM (814m3/h),  at a vacuum of 3"WC (740 Pa). It has a 120mm inlet.

I have a Felder AF-12 (1350m3/h) on my Hammer A3-26 and it's more than enough.

Thank you for the information. So I would assume the dust right 1250 cfm would be just fine.

It will be fine to pick up the debris that can be swept up but is unlikely to do much for the dangerous micro fine dust.

 

[RobS888]

[member=76675]lshj[/member] The Dewalt 735 is not a good thing to compare against. It has an internal fan to move the dust through the unit. To be honest I never used the dust collector on mine i just laid the hose out the garage door and let it blow away.

As has been mentioned earlier, the generally accepted fact is that pretty much everyone fudges their CFM numbers on dust collectors. Using at best testing lab perfect conditions and not the real world. I think you will probably have to just wait and see what happens when you actually get the machine. If it works that'll be great. If you think the unit might be capable of a better job then try going up a size in your hose and see if you can also reduce the run of the hose as that will help as well.

Ron

Thank you.  I realized that there are so many things that could affect the air flow.  I have tried to connect 1250 CFM dust collector  to the 1 7/8 hose that came with the Ridgid shop vac  using the reducer, try to use it as a shop vac for regular floor cleaning.  The result is so disappointing, the air flow at the end is so much weaker than the Ridgid shop vac with the 1 7/8 hose.  I have a 4" to 2 1/2 hose reducer that could connect to 2 1/2 hose, I have not tried it yet because I don't have 2 1/2 hose, but I doubt the result is significantly  better.  Dust right has the 4' floor sweep, but it's very bulky.

As I understand it, a shop vac is a small volume/high speed device, whereas a DC is a high volume/slow speed device. When you went to a small hose you had small volume/slow speed. I tried the same thing years ago with a biscuit joiner. The DC was very weak, the shop vac was great and could suck the base of the biscuit cutter to the wood. I use the DC for the table saw, lathe, Joiner/planer and bottom of router table. I use the shop vac for router table fence, domino, track saw, jig saw, and routers.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Answering the original question, I have a Hammer A3-41 (the 16" version) with Silent Power cutter head, currently paired with a Oneida Mini Gorilla via 15' of 5" flex hose.

The Mini Gorilla tops out at ~600 cfm @ 2" SP, and easily keeps up with the chips and dust produced by the A3-41, both in planing as well as jointing. There is the occasional chip that gets away, but it's a rarity.

That being said, it's hard to know what cfm your Dust Rite is actually delivering once you put a filter on it, run flex hose to a cyclone, and then more flex hose to your machine. It might not be sufficient.

If you can afford a Hammer, I suggest you put a "real" dust collector on your long-term "To Buy!" list. Your 4" cyclone is going to separate out the chips, but the finest (and most dangerous!) dust particles are still going to get to the Dust Rite, and get spewed back out into your shop. The Mini Gorilla has served my shop well the last six years or so, using a single 15' run of 5" flex and shifting from machine to machine. It has a HEPA filter, which is itself quite easy to clean.

Hope this helps!

Edit: If you need a wall-mount solution, you might be well-served by a Super Cell:https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/supercell

 

[lshj]

The A3-31 requires 500CFM (814m3/h),  at a vacuum of 3"WC (740 Pa). It has a 120mm inlet.

I have a Felder AF-12 (1350m3/h) on my Hammer A3-26 and it's more than enough.

Thank you for the information. So I would assume the dust right 1250 cfm would be just fine.

It will be fine to pick up the debris that can be swept up but is unlikely to do much for the dangerous micro fine dust.

As long as it can pick up majority of the dust, I think I would be happy enough.  I read some articles about woodworking dust problem and realized that there is no way you can get rid of all the micro fine dust.  No matter how good the dust collector is, it can only pick up the dust that is adjacent to the hose.  There is always significant amount of leaked fine dust that the dust collector can do nothing about it. 

I recently purchased a TSC 55 track saw with the CT MIDI dust extractor because I heard that festool dust collection is so good. But once I used the track saw, I was so disappointed, the dust is everywhere and so much dust leaked in front of the track saw blade, every time I used the track saw, I have to clean up significant amount of dust. Then I tested the dust bag that came with the saw, and realized that about 80-90% of dust has been collected in the bag. Connecting to the dust extractor is slightly better than the bag, but not a lot.  Now I know that I am expecting  too much. I am just accepting the  fact that there is always leaked dust. 

I also have a jet air filtration that looks like a big box.  I bought it a long time and have not used it too much.  I am planning to hang it to my garage ceiling.  Hopefully it could help a little to make the garage air clean.  If that doesn't work very well, I might get a rabbit air purifier, I heard some good review about it.  I don't think I will use the jointer/planer more than once a week, probably even less. Mostly I just use it to build some furniture for my home and some other fun projects. 

 

[lshj]

Answering the original question, I have a Hammer A3-41 (the 16" version) with Silent Power cutter head, currently paired with a Oneida Mini Gorilla via 15' of 5" flex hose.

The Mini Gorilla tops out at ~600 cfm @ 2" SP, and easily keeps up with the chips and dust produced by the A3-41, both in planing as well as jointing. There is the occasional chip that gets away, but it's a rarity.

That being said, it's hard to know what cfm your Dust Rite is actually delivering once you put a filter on it, run flex hose to a cyclone, and then more flex hose to your machine. It might not be sufficient.

If you can afford a Hammer, I suggest you put a "real" dust collector on your long-term "To Buy!" list. Your 4" cyclone is going to separate out the chips, but the finest (and most dangerous!) dust particles are still going to get to the Dust Rite, and get spewed back out into your shop. The Mini Gorilla has served my shop well the last six years or so, using a single 15' run of 5" flex and shifting from machine to machine. It has a HEPA filter, which is itself quite easy to clean.

Hope this helps!

Edit: If you need a wall-mount solution, you might be well-served by a Super Cell:https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/supercell

Thank you.  I probably just wait to see how this 1250 CFM dust collector works for the machine.  Hopefully it works.  I think the 1 micron canister filter is good enough for me, I really like this machine, not noisy, and it's quite clean although I have not use it much yet.  The 1250 CFM is 1.5 hp, less than the 2hp Oneida mini but labeled as more CFM?  Really don't  know how it can get more CFM than the 2hp machine.