Hammer A3 31 Shipping

[rmhinden]

For those of you who have ordered from Hammer, were your shipping charges similarly priced?

I purchased an A3-41 and it was delivered in August 2019.    The shipping cost was from their Sacramento CA warehouse was about $500.

The delivery went smoothy, the truck backed up into my driveway, off loaded it via truck lift gate, and use a pallet jack to move it into my garage.

I suggest you call your local Hammer/Felder rep and talk to him/her.    My experience was, of course, pre-pandemic.

PM me if you want the name of the person I worked with.

Bob

 

[Joelm]

Not an A3 31 but I did get a Felder FB 510 delivered last November for $525. I did not go through their website but directly from my local dealer. It was a very positive experience all around.

 

[festal]

You have to be careful with freight delivery companies. If anything looks off refuse it. Once you accept it, it’s hard to get any damage money from them. There are tilt indicators on crates which indicate if crate was tilted during travel. Some freight companies can replace them if they get tripped if they can see them. My tormach mill got damaged and because I didn’t know about these issues I didn’t get any money out of freight company

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

For what it's worth, it looks like I paid ~$550 in shipping for my A3-41, delivered April 2020, to Minneapolis MN.

As Festal points out, Felder makes a point of insisting that you do not sign for a delivery if anything looks amiss. It's much easier to sort out damage if you refuse delivery. If you sign for delivery, it releases the shipping company from any liability, and leaves you holding the proverbial bag.

The Silent Power cutter head on the Hammer machines is nice, my understanding is that the same head goes into the Felder machines as well. Chips are nice and small, cutter noise is minimal, no louder than running my saw. That being said, I'd like to eventually bump up to the AD941, in which case there's a TERSA cutter head available which I'm seriously considering. Within the realm of sub-$10k machines, I don't think you could hope for much better than the Felder spiral cutter head.

Something you get with the Hammer (and Felder/Profil) machines that may be lacking in some of the other combo machines is support. While YMMV, I've experienced great support from the Felder technical service people, and there's an active Felder/Hammer/Profil forum with a wealth of knowledge about dialing-in the machines.

Something the Hammer machines offer that I do not think is an option on the Jet or Grizly machines is a mechanical DRO on the hand wheel. I have mine set up for MM, and I can get repeatability to within 0.1mm.

 

[4nthony]

For what it's worth, it looks like I paid ~$550 in shipping for my A3-41, delivered April 2020, to Minneapolis MN.

As Festal points out, Felder makes a point of insisting that you do not sign for a delivery if anything looks amiss. It's much easier to sort out damage if you refuse delivery. If you sign for delivery, it releases the shipping company from any liability, and leaves you holding the proverbial bag.

What typically happens if you don't sign for delivery? Do they return it back to Felder or leave it for you to work out the damage replacement with Felder? I've never not signed for a delivery. When my saw was delivered, the pallet was somewhat beat up but everything was so well wrapped that it would've been impossible to determine any damage without unwrapping everything.

The Silent Power cutter head on the Hammer machines is nice, my understanding is that the same head goes into the Felder machines as well. Chips are nice and small, cutter noise is minimal, no louder than running my saw. That being said, I'd like to eventually bump up to the AD941, in which case there's a TERSA cutter head available which I'm seriously considering. Within the realm of sub-$10k machines, I don't think you could hope for much better than the Felder spiral cutter head.

It's the reduction in noise that I'm primarily after and if it's in the range of what my saw produces, that would be great. I'm just learning about the Tersa cutters. Their site mentions them as being noise-reducing, which I thought was interesting, as they look like very similar to standard straight knives which I thought were the noisiest.

 

[MikeGE]

It's the reduction in noise that I'm primarily after and if it's in the range of what my saw produces, that would be great. I'm just learning about the Tersa cutters. Their site mentions them as being noise-reducing, which I thought was interesting, as they look like very similar to standard straight knives which I thought were the noisiest.

My entry level Minimax FS 30G has the three-knife Tersa cutter block.  When I bought the FS 30G, I was considering the SCM Xylent cutter block, but my distributor recommended the Tersa option.  I found out later that they sold only one machine with the Xylent cutter block.  The customer was also a hobbyist and he later traded up for a larger machine with the Tersa cutter block.

All of the professional shops in my area use the Tersa cutter blocks, especially when time is money.  Paying an apprentice or junior employee to rotate and torque 40+ carbide cutters is not cost efficient when it takes the machine out of service.  I can change the three knives in my FS 30G in about one minute.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

4nthony,

Unwrapping the machine prior to signing is precisely what Felder recommends. When the machinery leaves Felder it essentially becomes the property and responsibility of the freight company. When you sign for delivery, you are releasing all of the previous parties from responsibility for the condition of the machine, particularly any shipping damage. Every situation will be a little different, but refusing to sign should send the machine back to the shipping depot, where it will stay while the machinery company and the shipping company will work through their insurance carriers to assign responsibility and render a decision about recourse.

On my last Felder delivery, they insisted that if I saw even a slight ding on the pallet that I call their logistics line to discuss whether the machine may or may not be damaged. They also insisted that even if everything looked "good", that I take the time to cut away all of the plastic and/or remove the protective crating around the machines to confirm that they were indeed undamaged. The freight company should allow you to take the time to properly inspect the machine prior to signing.

I know that with the long lead times it can be tempting to just sign for the machine and deal with it later, but signing might mean months of delay on getting parts or service, whereas not signing can fast-track the process.

Finally, not all machinery can be delivered via lift gate service. I've received at least one machine that was too big/heavy for lift gate, and wouldn't fit on a drop deck trailer. We ultimately decided to go with a flatbed semi tractor rig with a piggyback forklift, which worked perfectly. Also remember that most freight companies are only obligated to get the machine off the gate, anything more than that is at the discretion of the driver. Having your own pallet jack ready can save you from having a machine left in the street.....

 

[blaszcsj]

when i purchased an a331 and HS950 shipping was $500 to cinicinnati oh from delaware. 2019 and 2021, respectively.

 

[4nthony]

I really appreciate all the replies with advice about shipping and inspection.

I heard back from Hammer and the quoted shipping price on their site is way off. I was told it's usually around $500 which is on part with what has been suggested by you guys. I also asked about TERSA cutters vs the Silent Power and was told:

The Silent power cutter head is revolutionary. It is the quietest, give the best cut and uses 30% less horse power, The design was taken from carbide inset rebate shaper cutter. Tersa is getting to be a thing of the past. , No comparison

I'll still research this a bit more but the SP cutter will probably be OK for me. I've read about people going a year or two before rotating the cutters so I'm not worried about the extra time it'll take to do the rotation.

 

[Rutabagared]

I love the silent power cutter . . . extremely quiet, small chips (less emptying the dust collection bin, but heavier).  But most of all, I appreciate the finish and longevity.  The spriral configuration combined with the small cuts results in an exceptionally smooth fiinish even in highly figured woods.  Also, I haven't rotated the inserts since I got the unit (7 or 8 years ago).  Granted I'm a hobbyest, but they've seen a fair bit of use and I work mostly in hardwoods (maple, cherry, oak, ash).  I estimate I would have swapped jointer and planer knives on my Grizzly jointer and Makita portable planer at least three to four times by now. 

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I really appreciate all the replies with advice about shipping and inspection.

I heard back from Hammer and the quoted shipping price on their site is way off. I was told it's usually around $500 which is on part with what has been suggested by you guys. I also asked about TERSA cutters vs the Silent Power and was told:

The Silent power cutter head is revolutionary. It is the quietest, give the best cut and uses 30% less horse power, The design was taken from carbide inset rebate shaper cutter. Tersa is getting to be a thing of the past. , No comparison

I'll still research this a bit more but the SP cutter will probably be OK for me. I've read about people going a year or two before rotating the cutters so I'm not worried about the extra time it'll take to do the rotation.

4nthony,

The TERSA cutter heads are only available on the AD741 and higher machines, on the Hammer machines you're choosing between the standard Felder straight knife heads ("traditional" or self-setting), or the Silent Power spiral. In that realm, I'd absolutely choose the Silent Power. If you were stepping up to a 741 or 941, then the TERSA option opens up.....

 

[Michael Kellough]

What is the advantage of TERSA? It just looks like 3 straight knives. They self register in the head?

 

[MikeGE]

What is the advantage of TERSA? It just looks like 3 straight knives. They self register in the head?

The number of knives in the cutter block depends on the size of the machine. Most have three knives, but some have four.

The disposable Tersa knives are double-sided, so when one edge is damaged or dull, it can be changed to the other cutting edge.  The knives lock into position as soon as the machine is started. 

To change a knife, I push it down with a small block of wood, or the SCM plastic tool.  The knife then slides out of the cutter block through an access hole in the side of the machine.  When installing a knife, it will go into the cutter block only one way.  The knife is slid into the cutter block until it is approximately centered in the slot. 

When all knives are in place, turn on the machine to set them.  They will not fly out and will be locked into place.  I can change the three knives in my FS 30G in about a minute.  SCM recommends running a short piece of wood through the machine to ensure the knives are set.

I have no idea how long the knives last because the machine is new to me.  A set of three replacement standard knives for my machine is about €30 and a set of three M42 HSS knives is about €47.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

One of the other benefits of the TERSA cutter system is that there's a variety of blade alloys available, so you can match your blade composition to the wood/product you are processing. Off the top of my head, my memory is that the TERSA blades are available in HSS, M2, Chrome Steel, Carbide, and NaDia diamond coating, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Some blades are better suited for hardwoods, others for softwoods, others are well suited to processing dirty/gritty lumber which might damage/knick the knives.

As MikeGE points out, blade change takes about a minute or so.

I've also heard of users getting rather creative with their blade selection, using two or three blade styles on the same head to get the best qualities of different blade alloys.

I've also heard of users using shorter sections of TERSA blades and setting up their cutter block in sections, for instance the far side of the cutter block is set up with blades better suited for softwoods or dirty/rough lumber, while the near side of the head is loaded with blades better suited for long runs of hardwood.

Again, I'm currently enjoying my Felder Silent Power cutter block in my Hammer A3-41, it's a great cutter, but for more commercial/industrial applications the TERSA systems seems to have some advantages.

 

[MikeGE]

The TERSA cutter heads are only available on the AD741 and higher machines, on the Hammer machines you're choosing between the standard Felder straight knife heads ("traditional" or self-setting), or the Silent Power spiral. In that realm, I'd absolutely choose the Silent Power. If you were stepping up to a 741 or 941, then the TERSA option opens up.....

This explains what I observed and confirms what my distributor told me.  I visited two commercial shops earlier this year, and each had the larger Felder machines.  One had two AD941s and the other had one AD941.  All of the machines had Tersa cutter blocks.

 

[rmhinden]

Again, I'm currently enjoying my Felder Silent Power cutter block in my Hammer A3-41, it's a great cutter, but for more commercial/industrial applications the TERSA systems seems to have some advantages.

Same for me, I have the Silent Power cutters on my Hammer A3-41.  I am very pleased with it.

Bob

 

[4nthony]

Things are moving forward. I'm in touch with a Hammer rep, getting my questions answered, and working on a quote.

For those of you with a Hammer A3, do you have any thoughts on their Rolling Carriage/Lifting Bar vs something like the Bora PM-3550? I added the Rolling Carriage to my quote but now I'm reconsidering and leaning towards the Bora as it seems to be more maneuverable though it has a slightly larger footprint.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Things are moving forward. I'm in touch with a Hammer rep, getting my questions answered, and working on a quote.

For those of you with a Hammer A3, do you have any thoughts on their Rolling Carriage/Lifting Bar vs something like the Bora PM-3550? I added the Rolling Carriage to my quote but now I'm reconsidering and leaning towards the Bora as it seems to be more maneuverable though it has a slightly larger footprint.

I have the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-41 and it's fine, easy to install and effective for moving the machine around.

Another option you didn't mention is a pallet truck. I have a 21" x 48" pallet truck and have found it to be the most effective, safe method for moving machinery around the shop. If you're looking at acquiring other, larger machinery it may be a worthwhile acquisition. Just a thought....

 

[montyss]

I opted for the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-31. For the other brand wheel kits they seemed to stick out to far on the front of the machine and maybe get in the way I had thought ( personal preference)  The other things you should add to the quote is the short 400 mm accessory table (part # 500-101) with the coupling bar (part # 500-102) and the  Height gauge Digital readout ( part # 01.1.202 ) also required for the Digital Height gauge is an Aluminum handwheel (part # 12.1.311) The Height gauge is a must have after using it once you will be hooked on ... its super accurate to return to a previous thickness setting. The Felder number above is for the Metric version, there is another one that is in inches 

 

[Rutabagared]

I opted for the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-31. For the other brand wheel kits they seemed to stick out to far on the front of the machine and maybe get in the way I had thought ( personal preference)  The other things you should add to the quote is the short 400 mm accessory table (part # 500-101) with the coupling bar (part # 500-102) and the  Height gauge Digital readout ( part # 01.1.202 ) also required for the Digital Height gauge is an Aluminum handwheel (part # 12.1.311) The Height gauge is a must have after using it once you will be hooked on ... its super accurate to return to a previous thickness setting. The Felder number above is for the Metric version, there is another one that is in inches

I agree with all of these points/accessories and purchased the same with my machine.

Joe