Hammer A3-31 vs. Minimax FS30 Classic

[derekcohen]

I have had the Hammer A3-31 with silent head and digital gauge (an absolute must have accessory!) for 2 years now. It is very quiet - literally, one is able to talk over it while it is working - and the finish off the interlocked and very hard hardwood I work is just superb. Very reliable in this time, pretty easy to change over, and the fence settings stay put. Solid machine.

The digital gauge is super accurate, and it is possible to thickness to a size made on an earlier occasion. The carbide cutters in the silent head are still on their first face (of four faces), and this is a much simpler, easier to maintain system compared to the knives in my previous machine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[online421]

I would go with the Minimax...

 

[RussellS]

I would go with the Minimax...

Why?  Experience?

 

[online421]

I would go with the Minimax...

Why?  Experience?

You get what you pay for.

SCM has their own foundry, Felder is outsourced (not that outsourced is bad)
SCM is more of a production machine. Felder is for Professional hobbyist.
Will Felder be running smoothly as the L'invincibles in 30-40 years time? do you see SCM more often in a production environment or do you see Felder more often?

Checkout the steel and the build quality on the SCM and the Hammer if you can, check out the weight of the machines if you can.

Both machines will serve you well, but if I were you I will pay as much as possible for the machine I want, buy once, cry once, I am in the process of upgrading my 16"inch Tersa combi planar, I run an one man production shop(I still have a daytime full time job), I have seen the Felder AD951 in person, SCM FS520 Nova/Class and a SCM L'invincibile FS7. currently my heart is set on the FS7. but I will need a new workshop if I am going down this path, FS7 is like a Mothership of all the mothership.

 

[RussellS]

You get what you pay for.

SCM has their own foundry, Felder is outsourced (not that outsourced is bad)
SCM is more of a production machine. Felder is for Professional hobbyist.
Will Felder be running smoothly as the L'invincibles in 30-40 years time? do you see SCM more often in a production environment or do you see Felder more often?

Usually, but not always, quality and price are correlated.

Own foundry.  That is used at a pretty rough stage of production.  Having another company form a part, and then you mill and refine it.  Don't see that as much of a decider.

SCM has focused on the industrial line more than Felder.  Felder got into the industrial line with their Format line recently.  Not sure when SCM created their homeowner, hobbyist Minimax line.  Its competing with Felder and Hammer in that market.  Throughout Felder and SCM history, each has focused on a different market segment.  Now both are competing agaist each other in almost all markets.  SCM and Format at the industrial.  Minimax and Felder and Hammer at the professional, hobby level.

I'm guessing you see Martin and Altendorf ten or a hundred times more than you see SCM or Felder at the industrial level.  Except in Italy where I would guess SCM has a lead.  In Germany, Switzerland, the northern European countries, they would probably laugh at you if you suggested an Italian SCM.

Its nice to think if a company makes high end equipment, then they cannot possibly produce a lesser quality product.  But back in the 1970s Ford Motors produced the fine, luxury Lincoln Continental and Lincoln Versailles.  At the same time they made the Ford Pinto.  So I am sure SCM can make fine industrial equipment, and junk at the same time.  Not that they do.  But quality is not ubiquitous.

 

[rst]

Hey!!!  I had a Pinto...lost a race to a bicycle once  [scared]

 

[polobear08]

I've decided to go with the Minimax FS30 again, with Xylent helical head rather than Hammer A3-30 which I looked at closely.
I've owned a Minimax Fs30 for 22 years and it's performed exceptionally well, only needing switch replaced, and feed bearings after 10 years of very hard use.
The new machine is even better, Italian engineering at its best whilst the Hammer I understand is actually made in China, by the Felder group.
I was tempted by the Felder AD531 , however couldn't justify the considerably higher price.

 

[bertv]

The new machine is even better, Italian engineering at its best whilst the Hammer I understand is actually made in China, by the Felder group.

AFAIK (and I got this from a rep in the Low Countries) all parts of Hammer equipment are made in house, except the (rough) castings, which are done by contract firms in the Czech Republic. All of the machining of these parts is done in house. Felder/Hammer used to do the casting themselves, but outsourcing apparently made sense.

 

[ben_r_]

I wonder why the Silent-Power head wasnt chosen in the Hammer A3 configuration for comparison.

 

[RKA]

[member=58821]ben_r_[/member]
If you're talking about the first post in this thread, I was trying to compare apples to apples and it seemed like the straight knife Hammer was the comparable machine to the Minimax Tersa head. 

 

[ben_r_]

[member=58821]ben_r_[/member]
If you're talking about the first post in this thread, I was trying to compare apples to apples and it seemed like the straight knife Hammer was the comparable machine to the Minimax Tersa head. 

Ah, gotcha. I didnt realize the Tersa Head was a straight blade head. Yea I personally wouldnt go with anything that wasnt a helix style head. I have read too many good things about the noise reduction, cleanliness of cut and life of cutters. Been saving for a Hammer A3-31 myself. Love my N4400 and wouldnt mind some more Hammer in my shop

 

[RKA]

Yup, that's what I did (reply #11)! 

 

[Wooden Skye]

I have heard that the Tersa head is a lot better than the straight blade hammer.  The Tersa is closer to the Byrd (shelix).

 

[ben_r_]

I recall now one of the other things I didnt like about the MiniMax is that it has two separate dust collection connections, one for the jointer and one for the planer. Whereas the Hammer shares one. I like having to deal with only one better as it just seems like one less thing to deal with when switching back and forth between jointing and planing.

 

[ERG]

I have heard that the Tersa head is a lot better than the straight blade hammer.  The Tersa is closer to the Byrd (shelix).

Tersa is not closer to Byrd by any means. It's a disposable straight blade system that can be replaced with no tools and doesn't need to be adjusted. You just push the blades down, pull them out, slide new ones and turn on the machine. Centrifugal force does the rest.