Hammer K3 Blade Height Adjustment Issue

[patriot]

For some reason raising/lowering the blade on this table saw is difficult.  To lube, I raise the blade to its maximum height and then blow away all the sawdust from both shafts with my air compressor.  Once this is done I lube the height spindle, lower and raise and lube again.  Ditto for the tilting spindle.

The blade goes down easy enough, but raising it is somewhat difficult.  The mechanism also squeaks when the blade is raised.  The operation of the saw is perfect, so there are no problems whatsoever.  I think that the blade should not be this difficult to raise.  It seems as though I am compressing something when the blade is raised.  The saw was put into service in May 2017 so it is not that old.  That said, I do not recall how much muscle was required to raise the blade when it was new.  I think it was probably much easier than it is now. 

Both spindles are clean of any debris or buildup of any sort.  So I'm thinking that something else needs to be lubed to elimate the squeaking and reduce the friction when the blade is raised.

Any comments or suggestions are most welcome.

(Off topic:  I am not receiving forum notifications, but check in frequently.  A moderator is trying to resolve this issue for me.)

 

[IndyWoodworker]

I read your post and also have a K3.  Have you tried contacting Felder's corporate HQ in Delaware?  My Sales Rep is Steven Taylor at 1 866-792-5288 x219.  He can put you in contact with the technical department and maybe they can be of assistance.  I found the technical folks to be very helpful over the phone.  Most of my issues with the K3 were in setup which I was easily able to resolve easily with a little guidance. 

 

[patriot]

[member=11847]IndyWoodworker[/member]

Thanks for your comments.  How difficult is it for you to raise the blade on your K3?

Thanks!

 

[IndyWoodworker]

Hi,

I just tested my saw it is a solid cranking motion to raise and lower the blade.  It is firmer then my old Delta Unisaw.  But it did raise and lower okay.

Chuck

 

[southrider]

I've been having the same problem on my 4-5 yr old K3. It used to operate "normally" like most other table saws. Now it takes two hands to get the blade fully raised. Like you I have inspected, cleaned, removed sawdust, and lubed as much as possible. I haven't taken the time to call them as I only think of it when I am away from the saw or on weekends.

Looking forward to an answer here!

 

[patriot]

[member=42863]SouthRider[/member]

Thanks for stopping by.

Tomorrow I will call the number IndyWoodworker posted and see if they can provide any help.

Just as you said, it takes two hands to get the blade up and in my case, one hand to get the blade down.  This makes zero sense to me.  My height spindle is squeaky clean, so I don't get it.

Tomorrow I will call and post the results of that conversation.  Hopefully, they will have a solution that I hope can be fixed in our shops.  I do not want to have to have some tech work on my machine if I can help it.

Thanks again.

 

[patriot]

To all:

I have a phone call in - was forced to leave a message - and also sent an email as well.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks!

 

[patriot]

Hi,

I just tested my saw it is a solid cranking motion to raise and lower the blade.  It is firmer then my old Delta Unisaw.  But it did raise and lower okay.

Chuck

Sorry I missed your post, but as I mentioned I am not receiving any email forum notices.

It appears from what you wrote that raising and lowering the blade requires the same amount of effort.  Raising my blade takes about five times the effort that it does to lower it.

I have sent off another email in hope of getting some help.  I think I will use the phone number you posted to see if I can get some help from your rep.

Thanks.

P.S.  I just left a message with your rep.

 

[patriot]

To all: 

I finally heard back from Felder.  I sent my original rep an email, but quickly learned he no longer works for Felder.  His replacement called me nearly immediately after I sent the email.  He has put me on the Service Dept. "list" and they will call as soon as they can.  Apparently there was a dealer show in Vegas and they are finishing up with that. 

At any rate, someone has finally responded to me, so we'll see how it goes from here.

Will report back with whatever solution they come up with.

Thanks!

 

[patriot]

To all:

Okay - here's the solution:  DENATURED ALCOHOL!

Dust off the height spindle with your air compressor and spray the spindle several times while raising/lowering the spindle.  I used quite a bit of denatured alcohol in a spray bottle with adjustable nozzle. (See my weapon of choice below.)

The tech told me that sawdust gets trapped (compressed) in the spindle mechanism which releases pitch/residue and this gums everything up. In addition, the squeaking has also stopped. DA is now my favorite Hammer K3 lube. [thumbs up]

Now we know.  Thanks!

 

[IndyWoodworker]

Thank you for posting the solution.  I have seen denatured alcohol used for many applications.

 

[patriot]

Thank you for posting the solution.  I have seen denatured alcohol used for many applications.

No problem.  I am VERY happy that this problem has been solved.

Take care.

 

[mvern]

Thanks for the thread. I recently acquired a used C3-31 combo machine. 5 year old machine, great condition but required two hands to raise the saw blade.
I found the reference to denatured alcohol, but was unable to find any retail. The local Felder rep sold me some Metallglanz a few months back and told me that would work to cleanup the saw so I used that. I applied with a toothbrush and scrubbed the threads, wiped, then cranked to opposite position and repeated this several times. That alone made it possible to raise the saw blade with one hand.
Getting access was the key - I removed the main electrical box panel cover and flopped the box outwards and rested it on a stool. Then I had clear access to the back side of the saw armatures.
I also cleaned up the lateral guide for the raise/lower mechanism. It is accessible by removing the dust collection shroud and the belt cover (same components that need to be removed for a belt change). There are two bolts that hold a brass friction plate on the vertical guide. They go into threaded holes in the armature and have a nut on the back side. I removed these with the saw in a vertical position and cleaned up the whole assembly as there was a lot of sawdust packed in there. This made the raising/lowering operation even easier. I was careful to check how tight/loose the brass plate was before removing it. I didn't follow a spec, just by observation.
Anyways, not much info out there on this type of thing, wanted to contribute.
Rgs,
Mike

 

[mvern]

Thanks for the thread. I recently acquired a used C3-31 combo machine. 5 year old machine, great condition but required two hands to raise the saw blade.
I found the reference to denatured alcohol, but was unable to find any retail. The local Felder rep sold me some Metallglanz a few months back and told me that would work to cleanup the saw so I used that. I applied with a toothbrush and scrubbed the threads, wiped, then cranked to opposite position and repeated this several times. That alone made it possible to raise the saw blade with one hand.
Getting access was the key - I removed the main electrical box panel cover and flopped the box outwards and rested it on a stool. Then I had clear access to the back side of the saw armatures.
I also cleaned up the lateral guide for the raise/lower mechanism. It is accessible by removing the dust collection shroud and the belt cover (same components that need to be removed for a belt change). There are two bolts that hold a brass friction plate on the vertical guide. They go into threaded holes in the armature and have a nut on the back side. I removed these with the saw in a vertical position and cleaned up the whole assembly as there was a lot of sawdust packed in there. This made the raising/lowering operation even easier. I was careful to check how tight/loose the brass plate was before removing it. I didn't follow a spec, just by observation.
Anyways, not much info out there on this type of thing, wanted to contribute.
Rgs,
Mike

Ok, an update on my saw.
I clean up the saw angle height adjustment spindles as mentioned above. So far the Metallglanz seems to be ok for spindle threads and the threaded brass blocks they go into. Beyond that I don't think it should be used for any other type of lubrication, just protecting surfaces.
The shaper height adjustment was in rough shape. I ended up pulling it all apart i.e. removing it completely from the frame. There is a metal shaft to which to hand crank connects. At the opposite end of this shaft there is a journal bearing and a bevelled gear assembly that turns the vertical threaded spindle shaft that controls the vertical position. In my case the journal bearing was binding and caused significant galling on the shaft and bearing. The main cause of this was alignment. There is a plastic collar (a lightweight journal bearing really) that bolts to the frame of the machine and supports the shaft on the hand crank end. Before it is bolted securely there is a certain amount of play. In my case it was positioning to one extreme which caused a misalignment on the metal-metal journal bearing on the other end. This was bad, real bad. I ended up having to clean it up and polish both parts.
After cleaning it all up with naphtha, including the main spindle bearing housing, I greased the moving parts (except for the threaded heigh spindle and gears) and put it all back together. Now I can crank it very easily with one hand.
Anyways, for what it is worth.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

I can’t help thinking, that a machine of this calibre, reputation and of course price, could of been designed so that the saw dust is kept out of the gearing?
It sounds like the gumming up takes a while but, surely this shouldn’t happen.

Even many cheap saws do not suffer this issue.

 

[Mini Me]

A thread dredge for those interested. I have finally resolved this problem properly and it all revolves around the brass  support block for the shaft nearest the winder handle.

Problem one is that the block cannot be removed from the saw without major work due to the mount shape the block sits in so that idea got the flick. if it could be removed a grease or oil nipple would be the ultimate answer for those who want to do it but for me it was a step too far. I removed the roll pin, circlip and washer to expose the end of the block and drilled a hole in the block hard up against and parallel to the winder shaft as deep as it would go making sure I broke through the edge of the block to expose the shaft. I then forced oil into the hole and instantly the winder was a lot easier to use. Lubricating the ACME thread on the shaft will also lubricate the front block it runs through so that is not a problem. I left the saw for a few days and went back to it just to remove the doubt that I had fixed it and instantly I could feel the huge difference since being able to lubricate the block. To do it in future all that is necessary is to slide the circlip and washer back which would be a two minute job.

 

[Rich4242]

I agree that the problem is the brass support block - identified by Hammer as a "spindelgegenlager" or spindle counter bearing.

As the blade is raised, the motor weight pushes the shoulder of the turning shaft increasingly harder against a washer on the inner side of that brass block. The shoulder is very narrow and there's a lot of friction at that pinch point. I believe a wider shoulder would help. But that's just wishful thinking.

In any case, I find it hard to believe that sawdust can accumulate between the shoulder and the bearing washer or in the bore of the brass block where the shaft passes through. I doubt that alcohol dissolved or dislodged anything there. Rather, it got trapped in the bore and lubricated for a while.

I didn't find alcohol to be of much help.

What did help was to run some naphtha over the shaft shoulder and into the block front and back as much as I could accomplish. Then I used some very thin mineral oil at the same points, hoping that as much got into the bore of the block as possible.

That has seriously helped my 2007 B3 Winner on which blade raising had become a two-armed effort. The effort still increases as the blade gets higher, but I can do it now comfortably with one hand.

I also cleaned and put oil on the Acme thread, but that has only barely affected the action. I seriously doubt that sawdust can get into the "spindelmutter" - spindle nut - where the thread engages.

Rich