Hammer N4400 v's Felder FB510 .. I get it now!

[Kev]

Just back from several hours at the Felder showroom .. having German sausage and beer for breakfast [scared]

I now have real insight, as well as an awesome 400+ page catalogue

[attachimg=1]

So to the topic, the N4400 Hammer is a really nice bandsaw. The FB510 and FB610 Felder bandsaws are AMAZING! [crying]

60% more money for the Felders over the Hammers, but I can see where the money goes. It's going to be very hard just buying hammer now that I've touched Felder. Oh dear! [embarassed]

[member=41244]Iceclimber[/member]

 

[flair woodworks]

Yup.

 

[canadamike]

Yup.

Hey Chris, Do you guys sell Felders?

Mike N - the guy in Gibsons

 

[alkaline]

Just back from several hours at the Felder showroom .. having German sausage and beer for breakfast [scared]

I now have real insight, as well as an awesome 400+ page catalogue

[attachimg=1]

So to the topic, the N4400 Hammer is a really nice bandsaw. The FB510 and FB610 Felder bandsaws are AMAZING! [crying]

60% more money for the Felders over the Hammers, but I can see where the money goes. It's going to be very hard just buying hammer now that I've touched Felder. Oh dear! [embarassed]

[member=41244]Iceclimber[/member]

   

Ha ha ha. I know what you're writing. This choice is like Christmas gift  for me.

[wink]

 

[Timtool]

Mind sharing the differences?  From what i know the Felder 510 is mostly the bigger brother of the N4400, they share lots of parts and the basic design is nearly identical.
The fence is different and doesn't tilt away, but the dust collection is designed better, apart from that it just feels like a model up in terms of power and capacity.

I have a N4400 for a few years now, it's a great machine. But if the FB510 would have existed at the time i might have gone for that one instead, if only for the extra power and color matching with my other felders hehe.

 

[alkaline]

Two reasons for which I would now bought a band saw from Felder:

1. ceramic guides
2. Bandsaw blade is better.

But I have Hammer and in the near future not to change. So I replaced the ceramic guides and bandsaw I buy from local producers.
If I decide now, I'd buy Felder.

[wink]

 

[Runhard]

Kev,

I have the Hammer N4400 with ceramic guides and table extensions. It is a nice machine, but if my shop was not in my basement I would have bought a Felder.

 

[flair woodworks]

Yup.

Hey Chris, Do you guys sell Felders?

Mike N - the guy in Gibsons

We sure do!

 

[Timtool]

Two reasons for which I would now bought a band saw from Felder:

1. ceramic guides
2. Bandsaw blade is better.

But I have Hammer and in the near future not to change. So I replaced the ceramic guides and bandsaw I buy from local producers.
If I decide now, I'd buy Felder.

[wink]

The Felder ceramic guides also fit the Hammer model, both models use the same guide system.
They appear to only have one type of band saw blades for Felder and Hammer and it's pretty average in terms of quality, if you want the best out of the machines then a proper blade is crucial indeed. I get mine from Tuffsaws.

 

[Kev]

Mind sharing the differences?  From what i know the Felder 510 is mostly the bigger brother of the N4400, they share lots of parts and the basic design is nearly identical.
The fence is different and doesn't tilt away, but the dust collection is designed better, apart from that it just feels like a model up in terms of power and capacity.

I have a N4400 for a few years now, it's a great machine. But if the FB510 would have existed at the time i might have gone for that one instead, if only for the extra power and color matching with my other felders hehe.

[member=10829]Timtool[/member]

Everything about the FB seems much heavier duty. If I'd never seen the Felder and picked up a Hammer I'd be happy compared to other bandsaws I've evaluated. The machine I'd really like is the FB610 .. the table is HUGE but it's only available with 3 phase motor (the FB510 has a single phase 20 amp option).

Feature for feature I don't think you'd see a lot of difference, it's the engineering. 

 

[Lbob131]

The  510  is  250kg. N4400  is  170kg
An extra  70kg  of  iron  in the Felder.

I buy my blades from Tuffsaws  also.

 

[Kev]

[member=21192]alkaline[/member] [member=15545]Lbob131[/member]

There's massive variety out there in there world of bandsaw blades and correspondingly massive price variation. I was planning to err on the side of getting my blades from Felder thinking that they'd be the premium offering ...

Being down under, Tuffsaws would be an expensive option for me. My innocent understanding is most of the sellers weld bands from bulk that comes from specialist manufacturers.

What do you guys look for in a bandsaw blade? To me the most crucial task would probably be ripping hardwood at ~300mm aiming for as thin as ~3mm sheets.

 

[Iceclimber]

FB610 is atbthevtop of my short list of tools only second to a mortising machine. Probably the FD250.

When considering a slider i cant help but imagine that if i notice the quality of build of Felder over Hammer what is the jump to Format4 like.

Then again at the Format4 point i guess you might as well just start thinking Martin?

 

[Timtool]

I'd say that the leap in terms of build quality is noticeable on most of the Felder range when compared to Hammer. But it's not as marked on the band saw range.
When i compare my previous HammerF3 moulder to my current Felder 700 then i can't find any identical parts, everything is scaled up and made differently.

In terms of band saws the N4400 could be called the FB440, or the FB510 could be called the Hammer N5100. They added mass to it but apparently not in the working parts. The mass comes mostly from the bigger dimension of the machine, and structural reinforcements that are required by the extra capacity it has.
But again i'd go for a Felder now, more capacity is always nice to have. Though my N4400 does everything i want it to.

Tuffsaws gets their blades made as well so i guess other manufactures but them as well, the problem is that others usually only offer one type of all-round blade that is ok for lots of stuff but not ideal for any specific task. I have 3 types of blades, depending on lots of stuff there is one ideal type for each application, cutting veneer, hardwood, softwood, curves etc...

 

[junk731]

You are getting a more robust build in the beam structure of the FB510 / FB610 and overall heavier build of the machine. The FB510 / FB610 also are the first Felder bandsaws to have the F rail on all 3 sides of the table which to the hobbiest or casual user may not seem like a big deal but when your using them everyday the accessories available for the F rail are extremely handy. Aigner makes a great selection of add on tables and attachments and are definitely worth a look. The other nice part is these accessories are interchangeable and can used on multiple machines that have the same rails. Another bonus is that the Aigner accessories are typically 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the comparable Felder accessories.

John

 

[jaguar36]

I was debating between these two.  I spent awhile agonizing over the decision.  Then I ended up getting a Northfield from 1942 instead!

 

[ben_r_]

I went back and forth on the two also. It was especially difficult with the fall promotion that was going on on them both:

N4400:
$2030 with roller guides and $2390 with ceramic guides

FB-510:
$2470 with roller guides and $2830 with ceramic guides

Even with the difference being only $440 I just couldnt justify even more band saw than I needed in my home hobbyist shop. I went with the N4400 and am working on building a steel framed extension table add-on.

 

[Kev]

I went back and forth on the two also. It was especially difficult with the fall promotion that was going on on them both:

N4400:
$2030 with roller guides and $2390 with ceramic guides

FB-510:
$2470 with roller guides and $2830 with ceramic guides

Even with the difference being only $440 I just couldnt justify even more band saw than I needed in my home hobbyist shop. I went with the N4400 and am working on building a steel framed extension table add-on.

The table size is exactly why I'd go with the FB510 .. also the table extension attachment mechanisms on the Felder are quite superior.

In Oz the price difference is far more significant [sad]

In fact, the table on the FB610 is just awesome, but here I can only get it as a 3 phase model .. so apart from the fact that I can't power it and it won't physically fit ... I still want it.

 

[ben_r_]

I went back and forth on the two also. It was especially difficult with the fall promotion that was going on on them both:

N4400:
$2030 with roller guides and $2390 with ceramic guides

FB-510:
$2470 with roller guides and $2830 with ceramic guides

Even with the difference being only $440 I just couldnt justify even more band saw than I needed in my home hobbyist shop. I went with the N4400 and am working on building a steel framed extension table add-on.

The table size is exactly why I'd go with the FB510 .. also the table extension attachment mechanisms on the Felder are quite superior.

In Oz the price difference is far more significant [sad]

In fact, the table on the FB610 is just awesome, but here I can only get it as a 3 phase model .. so apart from the fact that I can't power it and it won't physically fit ... I still want it.

Dont get me wrong, I would love that larger table, but Im sure I can fabricate a better solution than Hammers extension options for the N4400 myself.

Also, those prices were a one day only type deal. The normal MSRP prices are as follows:

N4400:
$2795 with roller guides and $3191 with ceramic guides

FB-510:
$3695 with roller guides and $4091 with ceramic guides

And current sale prices are:

N4400:
$2235 with roller guides and $2631 with ceramic guides

FB-510:
$3116 with roller guides and $3512 with ceramic guides

All those prices would have sales tax added to them for me which was I believe 7.75%. Thankfully I have a Hammer/Felder office not too far from me so I can just pick up tools/accessories there if they have them in stock. So that at least saved shipping.

 

[Kev]

[member=58821]ben_r_[/member]

I'm facing decision pressure as I've been given a further discount window for a October promo Felder were running [crying] ..