Hand planing and Festool

[enderw88]

So, how do you hand plane the end of a board using an MFT?  Maybe my irons aren't as sharp as the could be, but I spent as much energy keeping the table from moving as I did trying to plane the board.  Any hints on how to rigidly mount an MFT temporarily (I became interested in the MFT/TS saw as a substitute for a Table saw that I don't want to spend the area on...

 

[fidelfs]

I asked a similar question.  Take a look at the posthttp://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=716.0

 

[enderw88]

Thanks.  I might have to rethink my workshop...

 

[Dan Clark]

There have been some similar questions before, but more related to "stabilizing" the MFT.  Some folks place sandbags over the bottom rails.  Some have created a removable "bottom shelf" that goes between the rails.   This adds weight and stability.  Add a few systainers or toolboxes and that helps.   Do a search about "MFT", you should find them.   

Nothing is probably as good a HEAVY traditional workbench.  OTOH, they tend to be a tad less portable too.   TANSTAAFL.

Dan.

 

[Dan Uhlir]

  i don't think the mft is good for handplaning when planing the only thing moving should be you and the plane. you need an old school workbench for that stuff. dan

 

[clintholeman]

I completely agree with Dan.  Just finished some cabinets where I needed to plane a couple of the door insets and my old and very heavy work bench worked just fine.  I've tried planning on my MFT, but it simply isn't heavy enough.  Plus it helps getting into the Zen of it all 

 

[TahoeTwoBears]

This topic seems to be around a bit. Has anyone ever tried using a sheet of material on the floor and then running cables with turnbuckles to anchor the table? I'm guessing that something like that is possible and things could remain portable.

Mike

 

[woodshopdemos]

My planes and I lost their zen way long ago. A slightly different question to you all: is the MFT stable enough if you are using the Festool  850E Planer instead?  I am starting to use that tool more and more...and it has as much zen as is allowed in a motored unit IMHO.

 

[Eli]

This topic seems to be around a bit. Has anyone ever tried using a sheet of material on the floor and then running cables with turnbuckles to anchor the table? I'm guessing that something like that is possible and things could remain portable.

Mike

I did propose the idea as either a padeye in the floor or eyebolts mounted on the inside of the MFT extrusions with cables+turnbuckles crossing to opposite legs, but never got around to doing it myself. I'm moving house, but that's not a good enough excuse, I've had months to try it. I was actually going to use it as a feeble excuse to buy a swaging tool. I do think it would work.

 

[Michael Kellough]

This topic seems to be around a bit. Has anyone ever tried using a sheet of material on the floor and then running cables with turnbuckles to anchor the table? I'm guessing that something like that is possible and things could remain portable.

Mike

I did propose the idea as either a padeye in the floor or eyebolts mounted on the inside of the MFT extrusions with cables+turnbuckles crossing to opposite legs, but never got around to doing it myself. I'm moving house, but that's not a good enough excuse, I've had months to try it. I was actually going to use it as a feeble excuse to buy a swaging tool. I do think it would work.

As long as you are willing to attach something to the floor I think simple shear panels (plywood) would be more effective than opposing tension lines (cables). Attach a cleat to the floor and connect a panel to the cleat and the MFT frame or legs (high up). It's stronger with sheer panels on two adjascent sides. The panels also give you screw holding surfaces to attach jigs and other things and reserve space for the MFT if you take it elsewhere temporarily. If you try this it's worthwhile to get the table dead level in both direction first.

Perhaps a better implementation of the sheer panel is to use one horizontal panel attached to a wall behind the MFT since the main stability issue with the MFT is twisting of the surface in the x-y directions. The legs do a good enough job of stabilizing the z axis. If you're doing work that lifts the table then a board across the leg cross bars loaded with heavy stuff fixes that.

 

[Eli]

Build a box of 2x6's on the floor put the table inside and pour cement in there. ;D

You could always get another set of legs for out on the road.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi enderw88,

A simple sheer plate clamped to the side of the table and in contact with the floor will provide more than enough stability to offset most any side thrust such as the loads you impart by hand planing.  But, the MFT is optimized for hand POWER tools, not hand tools, so like John L. indicated, try planing that board with a Festool power plane and your question will evaporate.

Prior to the industrial revolution all woodwork was done by moving the cutter (by hand) past the stationary work piece.  For high thrust loads like planing that required a very sturdy workbench and the "traditional" work bench was born.  The industrial revolution brought the ability to power the cutter so wood working changed to moving the work piece past the stationary cutter.  The larger the work piece the larger and heavier the "tool" that held the stationary cutter became.  Cast iron behemoths became the norm.  Following the second world war there was a rush to bring small, cheap stationary tools into home workshops.  That brought us the awful light weight, often unsafe "contractor table saw" and the worst tool ever foisted off on the public, the radial arm saw.  What Festool has done with their guided rail cutting and routing, other hand power tools and the MFT is to bring us back to moving the rotating cutter past the stationary work piece.  The MFT is optimized for holding work secure while you move the powered cutter over it. 

Just as the "traditional" work bench with its side and end vices and dog holes is awkward at best for holding a work piece for hand power tool cutting, when you want to use the MFT for the pre-industrial revolution tasks of moving a blade (like a plane) by hand over a stationary work piece you are using it in ways for which it was not designed.  Hence, the need to add a sheer plate to stabilize the MFT against side thrusts for which it was never intended.  Hope this helps.

Jerry

So, how do you hand plane the end of a board using an MFT?  Maybe my irons aren't as sharp as the could be, but I spent as much energy keeping the table from moving as I did trying to plane the board.  Any hints on how to rigidly mount an MFT temporarily (I became interested in the MFT/TS saw as a substitute for a Table saw that I don't want to spend the area on...

 

[enderw88]

Thanks Jerry, I really appreciate the philosophy lesson.  I would like a power planer, but I have these really nice hand planes, and I actually like using them...

 

[clintholeman]

I have both - a number of hand planes and the FesTool power planner.  Both are a big part of my woodworking. 

I often use the fixed base set up of my FesTool planner on my MFT as a joiner.  The MFT is plenty stable for that work.  Also, if one needs to "shoehorn" an cabinet into a tight place, there is nothing better than the HLK850.  It is also great for taking the proud edges off of a carcase.

For final planning of a table top or the like, there is nothing like a good hand plane - IMO.

 

[AHoman]

Prior to the industrial revolution all woodwork was done by moving the cutter (by hand) past the stationary work piece. 

Actually, coopers (barrel-makers) used very long jointer planes that were mounted on stands with the blade facing up.  The work piece was then passed over the stationary tool.  Generally, what you mentioned above is true, but not in the case of the cooper's jointer plane.
-Andy, who spent the morning hand-planing butternut

 

[chesterdad]

Maybe I am missing something, since I don't own the Festool planer, but won't it leave scallops just like a jointer or planer would?  For the finest finish, wouldn't you need a final pass with a hand plane, scraper, or sandpaper?

Just curious if my woodworking is different than most

 

[Mike_Chrest]

J Voos,

won't it leave scallops just like a jointer or planer would? 

Yup, it is the same finish. If you hand plane you still get ridges(along the grain) but those are marks of handwork & that costs extra ;D
Mike

 

[Mike_Chrest]

  Here's a rant. When I was a woodshop teacher in the '80 & '90s I built a Tage Frid workbench from plans in Fine Woodworking. It was beautiful to look at and to use for planing but it was rock maple and weighted around 300lbs(not sure exactly). I got transfered to three different shops in my tenure at that job and moved the bench with the growing collection of hand tools(the shops came with stationary tools). I needed two guys to lift the top then the legs separately. Anyway I finally sold it and moved a couple more times.
  Well it seams people are saying you need a heavy bench to use hand planes. I would say it is less work to just fasten your light bench(MFT) to something stationary.

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I had to make grooves for bronze hoops around the tops and bottoms of these columns. The fastest method I came up with was a Lee Valley Medium Shoulder Plane and a chisel.

It takes about one minute to clamp the MFT to one of these lally columns and the thing is not moving( I use a 2x4 scrap and a Irwin Quick clamp). Another option is screw a ledger to the wall and clamp to the ledger.

 

[gkeas]

This is slightly OT, but I just put together a Delta bench top jointer (I don't have room for the Jet combo unit I so covet), and on looking at it, while it has more width capacity than the HL850 with the benchtop attachment, it doesn't seem a great deal longer (the bed is around 30".)  Does anyone have any experience with the Delta?  If so, your thoughts, positive or negative.  I have no basis for comparison, as this is my first tool in this category, but I wonder if I would be happier, long term, getting the Festool unit now(with some work, I understand, I could joint long/wide boards "by hand" with this unit, and could do a comparable job on short/narrow stock), and buying the big floor unit sometime down the road when space permits.  Thanks for any input.

 

[Brice Burrell]

This is slightly OT, but I just put together a Delta bench top jointer (I don't have room for the Jet combo unit I so covet), and on looking at it, while it has more width capacity than the HL850 with the benchtop attachment, it doesn't seem a great deal longer (the bed is around 30".)  Does anyone have any experience with the Delta?  If so, your thoughts, positive or negative.  I have no basis for comparison, as this is my first tool in this category, but I wonder if I would be happier, long term, getting the Festool unit now(with some work, I understand, I could joint long/wide boards "by hand" with this unit, and could do a comparable job on short/narrow stock), and buying the big floor unit sometime down the road when space permits.  Thanks for any input.

We talked a little about the Delta in this thread.