Hardness of cast iron

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Jan 23, 2007
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Does it vary? Does age make a difference?

I’m adding a ~15 year old Benchdog cast iron router table to my 65-70 year old Walker Turner table saw.

Drilling holes in the TS felt about three times harder than drilling holes in the router table.

I started with a 7/64” bit and then enlarged with a 3/16” bit. That allowed a step drill to get going.
Finished with a Q bit on the TS for running the 3/8”-24 tap. It was much easier to keep the tap straight (enough)
when chucked in a drill than in the conventional two armed tap wrench.

Enlarged holes in router table to 7/32”. In the past I’d try to make the holes no more than 1/64” larger
than the bolt but invariably I’d have to disassemble and and enlarge holes a couple times.

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I knew that there was a substantial difference (on the Brinell Scale) between conventional cast iron and malleable cast iron, but a quick look on line shows that it is even larger than I imagined.

A machine base or a working surface is unlikely to be malleable.  But that is all I can add to the discussion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron

Addendum: I see that “Brinell” is spelled with one “n”, which still looks wrong to me.
 
It definitely varies.

Partly depending on exactly what's in it.
Let's say for the sake of argument cast iron is 80 to 90% iron and 10 to 20% carbon. There's no guarantee it's actually within those specs. Carelessness could allow it to be only 70% iron. Not to mention if impurities are allowed.

It can also be annealed or tempered. And (surface) hardened.
Even being struck by another object can somewhat harden. If you're going to drill out a broken bolt you don't strike it with a punch or hammer any more than necessary, otherwise you harden the surface. I don't know if this would apply as much to cast iron though.

 
alltracman78 said:
It definitely varies.

Partly depending on exactly what's in it.
Let's say for the sake of argument cast iron is 80 to 90% iron and 10 to 20% carbon. There's no guarantee it's actually within those specs. Carelessness could allow it to be only 70% iron. Not to mention if impurities are allowed.

It can also be annealed or tempered. And (surface) hardened.
Even being struck by another object can somewhat harden. If you're going to drill out a broken bolt you don't strike it with a punch or hammer any more than necessary, otherwise you harden the surface. I don't know if this would apply as much to cast iron though.

Add this to “carelessness” suggested above.

Almost no iron casting is done in the USA.  Environmental concerns has driven that operation offshore, and when I was working in the metals industry that meant “China”, where “environmental concerns” didn’t concern anyone.

India was another source.

Back in the 1980s, when I was working in that area, “if-it-looked-like-cast-iron” it was cast iron from those countries. 

India cleaned up their operations to a great extent, but China was still working on the “if-it-looked-like” mantra. 
 
I'm sure you're dealing with 2 different cast irons.  [tongue]  One was produced in 2009, probably from India or China as Packard noted and the other produced in 1949 probably from the US. 

I'm guessing the Walker Turner tool used grey cast iron which was popular for machine tools at the time because of its damping characteristics.

As for Bench Dog, who knows what that stuff is as they were probably just thrilled to be able to source any cast iron at the time.

Here are the 4 types you could be dealing with.https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-4-types-of-cast-iron/

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Back in the 1980's I was a cost accountant at a foundry.  We made high volume items like small engine crankshafts and automotive front end parts.  A lot depends on what steel you melt.  We mostly melted chopped up I beams so we could keep a tighter spec range than melting crushed up cars. 

Gray cast iron is very brittle-it is just poured metal with no heat treating.  We did not make any of that, but this is commonly found as farm tractor weights.  Malleable cast iron is cast into parts then is heat treated in an gigantic toaster oven then cooled.  It could then be water quenched or oil quenched.  Basically the heat gets all the molecules to line up then quenching locks it in place.  There is a lot of art and science in this that I do not know.  Ductile is chemically heat.  So while the steel is bubbling at 2800 degrees F molybdenum and other minerals are thrown into the ladle pot.  This is usually in a paper bag and the whole bag is thrown in. The steel is churning around enough that this gets mixed up in the whole batch.

Our melt deck was continuous pour.  We had 4 ladles with steel being continually dumped in them.  A fork truck would come up, the ladle would tilt and fill a ladle on the fork truck.  Then the fork truck would take and pour it into the molds.  We used cope and drag patterns (top and bottom negative patterns) and the mold was made out of silicone sand held together by oil and packed into place by giant shakers.  The cores were interesting (think of the hollow place inside an exhaust manifold or engine head).  Cores would keep the steel out and then could be beaten out once the steel set so cores let you make complicated parts. 

If you look at your car's intake manifold, you may see a pattern of styrofoam in it.  That was a new technique back then.  You make a positive pattern of your part out of styrofoam with sprue attached, and pak it in loose sand.  Then when you pour the hot steel in, it evaporates the styrofoam which escapes through the loose sand, and the steel fills the cavity.  Very good for experimental parts as it is easier to carve a block of styrofoam than make a negative cope and drag pattern out of stainless steel.  Wood patterns were also used but only for low production since the sand would wear the wood pattern out.  Remember when a Pattern Maker was a high skill trade?

Everything was electric.  The melt ladles were wrapped with a coil of copper pipe-maybe 2"?  and water would run on the inside of the pipe to keep it cool and electricity would go through the outside of the same pipe.  This caused a magnetic field and allowed you to just keep adding steel as you poured more into the fork truck ladle.  It was explained to me not to fall into one of these melting deck ladles because the moisture in my body would explode and take out a city block.  We would pre-heat the steel before dropping it into the ladle to avoid this moisture problem, but once a pipe that must have been mashed on both ends and had water it it went into the ladle.  It blew the ladle off of its hydraulic tilter.  A can of coke would have destroyed the ladle as the moisture goes to the bottom them explodes.

As an accountant, I saw the writing on the wall and got out before they went under.  This was in Central Illinois where a nuclear power plant was built and the electrical rate increases were killing us.  We could win or lose a contract on one/hundredth of a cent so not a lot of profit margin. 

The shakers (they shaked the castings from the sprues-think of a plastic car model with the sprues and car parts)
were so noisy because they just vibrated everything apart.  I could not make more noise with a stack of oil pipeline and a 12 lb sledge hammer.  We were an EPA dump with all of that silicone sand and just had too many things against us.  It was sad to see that part of America die. 
 
Interesting stuff guys. I never investigated cast iron, just dealt with it as a given.
This was the first time I worked with two different pieces at the same time so the characteristics were directly comparable.

This Benchdog table is a little bit concave but much better than the one it replaced. Bought soon after Rockler absorbed Benchdog the first table was so bad (1/16”+ concave) Rockler said “do whatever you want with it, we’ll send another”. These things weigh about 90 pounds.
 
If the iron is cast as a shape, then as is cools, there are internal stresses that are formed.  These stresses and cause the iron to crack.  To avoid that cracking, the castings are “stress-relieved”. 

The traditional stress-relieving process involves heating the casting to a temperature that is less than the melting point, and then slowly (very slowly) it is allowed to cool.

I sold Federal punch presses and they said in their literature that the cooling process took 7 to 10 days as they slowly reduced the oven temperature. 

This is a costly process.  About 30 - 40 years ago, they found that they could get acceptable results by attaching a vibration transducer (I’m not sure that “transducer” is the right word) with magnets to the casting and vibrating the casting for several days.  This is a vastly cheaper process.

As for “aging”, maybe.  I know that stamping that have been heat treated need to be “stress relieved” to prevent “hydrogen embrittlement” after plating.  But that treatment has to be done within 30 minutes of plating.  If a plater runs his plating line to the end of the day, then the parts might not be stress-relieved until the following morning.  So those parts will crack or break easily. 

We found that if we kept the parts in storage the embrittlement would age out and the parts would be good again.  But it took 3 to 5 years to do that.  So most of the items were out of production by the time they were good again. 

I would imagine that the stresses in a casting would age out also.  Especially in a punch press where the machine generates its own vibrations.  But that is a educated guess, not a statement of fact.
 
IIRC Rolls Royce used to cast their engine blocks then leave them outside in the weather for a year before using them.
 
I had an early version (1970) Subaru, before it was distributed by Subaru themselves.  It was imported by a independent distributor in Albany, NY.

The front rotors (brakes) were not properly stress relieved.  After one hard stop it would get hot enough to release those stresses and warp the rotors.  I would the bring it in under warranty and they would cut (reface) the rotors.

Aft that, the second time it would warp, there was not enough metal left and they would have to replace them with new rotors.

In one year, they replaced 12 sets of rotors and refaced each set once.  It would cost me about $325.00 per month in repairs.  I sold the car just befor the warranty ran out (1 year).

I told the dealer what the cause was.  It is not clear to me that the information made it back to Subaru headquarters.
 
Mini Me said:
IIRC Rolls Royce used to cast their engine blocks then leave them outside in the weather for a year before using them.

When I bought my CNC that's exactly what they did. They sent me pics of so many frames stacked up outside weathering before they were machined.
 
luvmytoolz said:
Mini Me said:
IIRC Rolls Royce used to cast their engine blocks then leave them outside in the weather for a year before using them.

When I bought my CNC that's exactly what they did. They sent me pics of so many frames stacked up outside weathering before they were machined.

I’ve seen a photo of the outdoor yard where Delta stored castings (back in the day) prior to final machining.
 
Well seeing as we're getting deep into the weeds,  [smile]  here's a photo of the Atlas seasoning room for lathe beds in 1933. I believe these were all grey iron castings.

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And here's a shot of the South Bend seasoning room for lathe beds in 1925.

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This was the first step in the stress relieving process before the lathe beds were machined.

And as much as this may seem to be just so much voodoo given the distant years indicated, when I was machining PTFE blocks in the 90's, a similar stress relieving process had to be observed or the machined parts would become severely warped.

What's particularly striking to me, is the manner in which the seasoning of the lathe beds was approached. For Atlas, it was kind of a helter skelter approach, while for South Bend, it was similar to stickering wood for proper drying. And while I own an Atlas lathe, I think everyone will concede that South Bend produced a better product.
 

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