Have I Been Overthinking The Router Motor?

[onocoffee]

Awhile back we had a discussion about router motors for a router table. I liked the Jessem but it's pricey and the discussion about whether or not they would support their warranty after replacing the motor was troubling, especially for quite a pricey motor (but I do like the features). Then the Bora seems to be hit or miss. Another person suggested a water cooled spindle with VFD control (not bad but not terrible cheap either). Then I thought about waiting for the Woodpeckers SpinRite but I don't think that's out yet.

Today at Rockler, I was talking to one of their guys about the dust thing for my Makita 7000 trim router (they didn't have it) when I noticed the Skil 10A 2hp fixed base router. Take it out of the base and it looks as though it's similar is size as the Bora.

Looking it up now, the Skil 10A has both 1/4" and 1/2" collets with 10-25,000rpm for $99. There's even a 14A version in the same housing with both collets and same speed rating for $50 more. The Bora is 15A 3.25ho, 10-22,000rpm and is $300 at my local Woodcraft.

I've got the Woodpeckers Incra PRL-V2 lift and I think any of these will fit the lift. Is there really any reason not to go with the Skil in the lift?

 

[smorgasbord]

I've got the Woodpeckers Incra PRL-V2 lift and I think any of these will fit the lift. Is there really any reason not to go with the Skil in the lift?

The Skil is probably (almost certainly) a lower quality unit. Whether that's in terms of the bearings, the collet design, the runout of the spindle, quality of the motor windings and brushes, etc. it's hard to say without a tear-down, but Skil is aimed at the homeowner/DIY market.

I actually interviewed at Black and Decker back in 1980. They showed me a cut-away diagram of a drill and asked me to identify some of the parts. That was pretty easy, except I asked about the bearings. Turns out they were using bronze bushings to reduce cost, and justified it with a "typical homeowner will use a drill for about 10 hours in his lifetime and our bushings will last 20."

What kind of table routing do you expect to do? What size bits? How many lineal feet and expected lifetime of the router?

 

[usernumber1]

Milwaukee 5625-20

 

[Mini Me]

Water cooled spindle then every problem router tables have goes away. Cry once and do it properly. I bet the Woodpecker's version is the Jessem version re-branded.

 

[cpw]

I'll go against the grain here.  Get the $150 router motor.  It should cut, and you aren't actually using the router itself for most of the adjustment, you're just using the lift itself.  I have a 3hp Porter Cable in my woodpecker lift, it just sits there and cuts.

If you were using this for hours on end, then you would maybe think about something better.  But if you were, then you also would already have a router motor and know if you had a problem to solve or not.

The one motor that seems to have a differentiating feature to me is the Jessem, because the speed control is mounted externally.  My router's speed control is inside the dust box under the table, which means that it goes mostly unused in favor of only using the on/off paddle switch that I have mounted externally.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Milwaukee 5625-20

This seems to be the modern replacement of the old Porter-Cable 7518, which is no longer available.
That has been the standard for heavy duty fixed base routers, for years. It is a heavy and powerful unit, the solid surface department, where I work, has 2 of them. They are mostly used handheld, for flush trimming and sink cutouts. With a lift, it should be good in a table too. However, I can tell you from experience, a fixed base router (in a table) is a horrible thing. Ergonomically, it's just a pain.
Either way, do yourself a favor and get a remote mounted power switch. Reaching under the table for anything is cumbersome.

Skil? I would avoid, unless your expected use is very minimal, but at that point, a router lift is excessive.
It's like an expensive performance car, with cheap tires. Will it roll? sure. Should you really drive it?....you be the judge.

 

[woodferret]

I don't think the remote would work with the Milwaukee or any of the current class of routers like it did the old PCs.  Soft-start and all that.  As I understand it, you'd have to bypass it and the built-in speed control.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm not sure about that. Soft-start is not necessarily the same thing as the non-restarting technology that is being used in Europe.
Soft-start does not work with external speed control, but I don't think the restart is affected.
I use Triton routers in my table and they are soft-start. I use a Kreg switch on both of them.
That may not apply to the Milwaukee though. I'll try to remember to test is tomorrow.

 

[semenza]

If you get a good quality router I wouldn't worry about the cooling for non-production use. Particularly if you will have a good DC set up moving lots of air through the router enclosure.

    I have the classic Porter Cable 7518 in a Woodpeckers lift in an enclosed DC box.  I have run it a lot over 20 years. Frequently for a half hour plus continuous run time multiple times a day.  A half hour might not sound like much but you can run a lot of material through in a half hour.

    4" down draft DC pulling everything down through the enclosure past the motor. I also have not had any issue with the router sucking in dust and going bad.

    Though cooling and avoiding dust going into the router are certainly good things, I think the concern over them is probably over stated in a non-production setting. By production I mean running for hours every day cranking out hundreds cabinet parts. When I run for half hour plus it means 20 - 40 pieces going through. Not idle run time.

    But stick with a good quality unit.

Seth

 

[rst]

It’s truly a travesty that the PC 7518s were discontinued.  I’ve had two, sold one last year for what I paid new, still have one in my 30+ year old BenchDog lift. The one I sold was primarily used for routing 3/8” acrylic guards for cash registers that I sold to a grocery chain.  I often routed 100 of the 24”x24” blanks with a round over bit. I frequently ran to close to 8 hours a pop. I used a vacuum template and bearing bit with an oversized base and handle. These routers were indestructible beasts

 

[rmhinden]

I also have a Porter Cable 7518 mounted in a router table lift (Kreg) that is in a box with good dust collection.  Hopefully it will run for a long time.

If I had to replace it I would probably get the something equivalent, like the Jessem or Woodpecker Spinrite.  Surprisingly, the Woodpecker is less expensive.

Bob

 

[Cheese]

That Skil router seems like "too much" of a deal. The 10A and 14A ratings probably come from Skil marketing and may or may not be tethered to reality.

If retail is $99, then the Skil router probably costs $25-$40 to build.

A Festool collet & nut costs $60. A Milwaukee collet & nut costs $30. A Porter Cable collet & nut costs $30. Yet you get 2 collets & nuts with the Skil...do the math.  [smile]  Something isn't exactly as it appears to be.

 

[smorgasbord]

I, too, still have my 30 year old 7518 in a router table, now Jessem lift changed over to metric.

The router motor itself is great (I sold the fixed base years ago on EBay), but the PC collets are pretty short. If it died and wasn't cost-effectively fixable (ie, not just brushes), I'd want something with ER20 collets (which the Jessem and Woodpeckers both have). As it is, the other thread on trim router motors got me to order Muscle Chucks for all 3 of my routers, which probably means one of them is going to die soon, as is my luck sometimes.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

[member=82312]onocoffee[/member],

The Bosch 1617 router has been a rock-solid motor, and would serve you just fine in a router table application.

I guess I never quite understood the 3hp class of router motors in a router table. I understand that the extra hp is necessary for spinning raised panel cutters, but at that point why not just bump up to a small shaper?

I ran a Bosch 1617 in a bench top router table for years and it was plenty for everything I threw at it. If/when it wears out (not likely unless you're running it full time), just buy a new one. For the volume of work it would take to wear out a good quality router motor (Bosch, Makita, etc...), it should have paid for itself many, many times over.

 

[smorgasbord]

I guess I never quite understood the 3hp class of router motors in a router table. I understand that the extra hp is necessary for spinning raised panel cutters, but at that point why not just bump up to a small shaper?

Shop space. My router table is in my tablesaw's extension wing.

And then the price of cutters versus bits, and even if they're close to the same, some of the bits I run in the table I also run in a plunge router hand-held.

 

[woodferret]

I'm not sure about that. Soft-start is not necessarily the same thing as the non-restarting technology that is being used in Europe.
Soft-start does not work with external speed control, but I don't think the restart is affected.
I use Triton routers in my table and they are soft-start. I use a Kreg switch on both of them.
That may not apply to the Milwaukee though. I'll try to remember to test is tomorrow.

Sorry I misread it as being a remote speed controller.  The rheostat ones being sold.

On off is fine like you said.

 

[usernumber1]

the milwaukee works fine with an enclosure and a router table switch. I use one from an old Freud table. soft start works. Speed control is the only issue where you have to open the enclosure and adjust on the router
it's a beast of a router

 

[Woodenfish]

I purchased several Craftsman Professional fixed base and their 3- base router kits years ago. These are all the same as the Skil models you see today. The only difference is the new digital readout and a fixed cord. I purchased 3 of these as an addition to my Porter Cable 690 fixed base routers of the same amperage rating. These routers in my opinion are superior to the old and reliable 690 1-3/4hp single speed routers. I don’t think there is as big of a difference in many tools other than features, colors and prices. I like this routers led lighting, variable speed, feedback speed adjustment, soft start, reliability and performance have been as good as one could hope I guess. I have no problem feeling like I have an inferior tool in my hand because this one will do anything that I need to. I would put them at equal footing with most anything you can purchase at a big box store and these are often at a much better and more frequent sale price. I have used several under router tables, in hand and are my go to router for my Leigh D4R Pro jig. I think the Skil should not be ignored if it gets the task done and is lasting quality.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Mine could potentially sit unused for a couple of days, then hours at a time the next day.
Last summer I ran a bunch of laminated wall panels, that needed some fairly wide, but shallow grooves.
I ran a 1 1/4" bit, about 3/16" deep, for hours on end. I filled the CT26 3 times in the same day, 2 days in a row and another one a few days later, after modifying some of the panels. I injured a few of those bits in the process. Part of what I was cutting was a layer of laminate. That stuff is very hard and abrasive. You could see a noticeable wear mark, (nick) in the carbide, right at that line. Once it did that, the feeding pressure got to be a little much, plus the load on the motor. So, I would swap it out for a fresh one, about every 4 or 5 CT bags.
That was one of the times I wish I had bought a powerfeeder. It was as rough on me as it was those bits.

The Triton TRA001 took it in stride. I was quite impressed.
I have used PC 7518 in the past, as a backup (or when setting up a second unit) but it wasn't mine, so no lift. This was just using it upsidedown. Horrible ergonomics. Bit height adjustment, tightening the wing nut after the adjustment, the switch location moving because of the adjustment.....garbage. The power and robustness though were on point.
PC 690 are just as bad, only smaller and the PC890 is worse. It has all of the bad elements of the older model, plus a taller, more tippy formfactor.
I realize that my case is at the extreme end, but I just don't see spending $200+ for a knock-off or $350 to $500 for one of the name brand lifts, just to hang a cheap router under it?

 

[onocoffee]

Thank you all for your thoughts. I do appreciate them and am considering all of it.

A few months ago, I was able to find a nice used Incra router table setup and that came with a Freud FT2200 with Incra Plate. Not long after, I found the used PRL-V2 lift, so I've been able to assemble the pieces with good savings. But it would be nice to have the ease of height adjustment using the lift versus the under table twisting of the knob on the FT2200. Add to that my current use would not be remotely described as heavy or demanding. Future use I see doing deeper roundovers or chamfers on 1" stock, routing out some channels, but not really shaping work.

And I hear you Crazy when you talk about putting such a low brow motor in a turbo-charged lift.

My thought with the Skil is that I can use it to start and as my use grows I'll get a better feel of which way I need to go. But more importantly, I'll have it to do work now rather than waiting to save up the extra cash it will take to get into something nicer, like the Jessem.

Still considering with thanks for all the knowledge shared.