Have you switched to metric? What did you think?

johnbro

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Sep 15, 2007
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I'm in the middle of building drawers for a shop cab. Three bays of three drawers each; after the first bay I decided to do everything in metric instead of imperial. Wow, what a difference! So much easier to do the math, and with the dual scale on my TS and a decent metric folding ruler someone gave me years ago, it's a snap to work.

However, it caused me to reflect on how many imperial tools I have that I rely on (like my Starrett 6 inch ruler). I'd hate to replace all of them but I'm seriously considering making the switch permanent.

Who's tried and succeeded? Who's tried and gone back to Imperial.

No point asking who from a modern country has ever switched from metric to imperial; what would be the point?
 
Switching to metric for me was fairly straight forward. It can be as simple as using scales and tape measures that show both imperial and metric units.  I use a Metric/Standard tape available from www.fastcap.com.  The same is true for scales that I purchase.  The other reason I moved to the metric system in woodworking as I passed 40 years of age, those 16th of inch increments were beginning to be difficult to read even with my bifocals.  Millimeters are much easier to see. 

Yes, most furniture plans are in imperial units, that is why I have the dual scales.  Once you start down the metric path it becomes easier. A suggestion is not to do too many conversions in your head.  Simple conversions as 25 millimeters per inch is a good standard to use.  Good luck in converting to metric, it is relatively easy, just give it a try.
 
Love metric!  Wish we would have adopted it in the US.

Also developing a growing and growing deeper and deeper appreciation for the way Europeans approach woodworking.  All the way from felling to assembling.  As one who mills his own lumber Pfanner safety equipment is excellent, Stihl & Husqvarna are the saws and hooks to get, Gransfors Bruks are pretty decent... while American green (AKA John Deere) doesn't suck too bad for helping to move stuff around.  American sawmills aren't too shabby either.  But give me some F's from Europe back in the shop:  Felder & Festool!
 
In a perfect world I'd choose metric but I pretty much hate constantly converting so I stick with Imperial. One trip to Lowes or HD well illustrates the dilemma, not to mention the building codes and laws here are mostly in Imperial.
 
I started adopting metric when I got my first Festool, the TS55.  I sometimes fall back to imperial out of habit.  The hardest part for me is just being familiar with "standard lengths" like a 36 inch counter height, 30 inch table height, etc.

I have invested in mostly metric version tools, including Festool and Incra.  One recent challenge was preparing templating for my router.  I wanted to get the offset between the router bit and the guide bushing in whole or 1/2 mm size.  Both the guide bushings and the router bits are not common at all in metric in the USA.  I got the guide bushing set from Axminster and I have not yet purchased the router bits, but will most likely get some Trend bits.
 
I use both kind of interchangeably depending on the particular need but prefer metric. I'll often do major dimensions in feet/inches, like 24 inches, especially if I have to match something to some "standard" dimension, then do all the detail measuring in metric.
I despise trying to count 16ths of an inch or figuring out what the mark past 3/4's is, not to mention the hassle around adding or subtracting different fractions. A Calculated Industries builder's calculator helps a lot if you need convert on a routine basis (also helps for adding those fractions). For measuring I have a Stanley metric tape, but my favorite is a carpenter's folding rule I picked up on a business trip in Germany, I don't know the maker. I also have various metric and metric/English rules.

Unfortunately, my saw is an HK which is only sold in imperial in N.A., one of these days I'm going to call Festool and see about getting a metric scale for it.
 
johnbro said:
I'm in the middle of building drawers for a shop cab. Three bays of three drawers each; after the first bay I decided to do everything in metric instead of imperial. Wow, what a difference! So much easier to do the math, and with the dual scale on my TS and a decent metric folding ruler someone gave me years ago, it's a snap to work.

However, it caused me to reflect on how many imperial tools I have that I rely on (like my Starrett 6 inch ruler). I'd hate to replace all of them but I'm seriously considering making the switch permanent.

Who's tried and succeeded? Who's tried and gone back to Imperial.

No point asking who from a modern country has ever switched from metric to imperial; what would be the point?

Everything I purchase now is in Metric.  I grew up with Imperial, so I can fall back on that antiquated system if needed.  And yes, there is a learning curve with the switch, but over time it starts to become second nature. 

My Dad was an engineer (research and development), and lived in the Metric world.  His patents from 30-40 years ago were all submitted in Metric so I guess you could say the United States is converting, slowly....

Of course, Festool is going the opposite direction, probably due to the US construction industry, and the desire to increase their presence in that market.  Fortunately, for those of us who prefer Metric, there are other companies that still adhere to the Metric system in their tool designs (Example; Mafell). 

Festool has only converted a small portion of their product line to Imperial, so if you act fast, certain tools are still available in Metric (such as the Festool 2200 Router, or as I like to call it, "my next purchase"). 
 
After roughly 50 years of woodworking in Imperial and using tools mostly referenced to Imperial that is my mainstay...since I acquired a Kapex 120 with UG stand and wings I have acquired the habit of dividing my target length by 0.03937 to obtain a setting for the UG stops.
 
I switch back and forth all the time, but I still visualize imperial.  I'm working on visualizing metric distances so that they feel more intuitive.  I still have to -think- that 100mm is roughly 4", 300mm is just less than 1', and 900mm is just enough less than 3' to be irritating.  On the small side, 1mm is more than 1/32", 12mm is less than 1/2" but 13mm is more, and I always have to think about whether 16mm is less than or greater than 5/8".  Exactly how wide is my Pfeil 16mm chisel again?  That's just for examples.

My metric education started in Ecuador where I did some woodworking training.  I went to a lot of work to do casework plans in metric, then got to Ecuador and found that the guys I was training were multi-lingual in imperial and metric, but had mostly imperial rules and tapes.  I got my first metric tape in Ecuador - it has the Stanley name on it, but might be a knockoff, as the Stanley planes definitely were (my first clue was that the lateral adjustment lever was cast into the plane body).  I still have the tape.

From a practical point of view, despite how you work, you have to talk imperial in the US.  You can't go to a client and say that a cabinet will project 600mm from the wall, or that it will be 800mm tall.  Most people won't be able to visualize it.  So despite the fact that metric math is way more intuitive than imperial (i.e. binary-converted-to-decimal for distances less than an inch and a weird decimal/duodecimal hybrid for distances greater than an inch), imperial is still necessary in some places - not because people find the math easier, but because it's what they can visualize.  And at the end of the day, I still have to break down a 4'x8' sheet into pieces parts, even if all of my project measurements are metric.

But while we're on the subject, I get 20mm holes in the MFT top, but what's with putting the holes 96mm on center?  That makes the math easy - not!  Is it related somehow to the 32mm standard for cabinet hardware (which doesn't really seem intuitive either)?  I'm thinking that you can give people a perfectly good metric system and they can still make things harder than they need to be.

At any rate, the point is that the ease of math is not the point.  It's the fact that imperial is so embedded in US society that, with the exception of people who have certain kinds of technical or scientific training or were raised elsewhere, people in the US intuitively visualize the distances of imperial measurements, but have to do mental arithmetic (dividing by 0.03937?) to visualize the distances for metric measurements.

So for others raised with imperial measurements, I'd ask the question of this topic a bit differently.  Have you learned to visualize in metric?  How did you have to change the way you think to do it?

 
Metric is definitely easier, but I have WAY too much money in imperial marked tools (Starrett, Woodpeckers, tape measures, rulers, etc) to switch now. And all my Festool tools are in Imperial too. Well those that are currently offered that is.
 
Ive been making the switch to metric. I really like it. But Im still refering to the imperial system. Its a slow transition for me. All the festools Ive bought have been metric. I do own tape measures with both metric and imperial.
 
In Britain we have been metricked since 1970. I was born in 71, but most schoolbooks were still in imperial. It is only recently that woodplans in magazines are only metric dimensions. EVERYONE over 30 visualises in imperial. No-one knows their weight in kilos- it is meaningless. All road distances and speeds are in miles because  kilometres mean absolutely nothing to anyone, anywhere. Everyone has to convert liters to pints or gallons to get any sense of scale.

It seems that in the US you buy a 2x4 and it is 1 1/2" x 3 1/2", wherever you buy it. Here it might be 47mm x 97mm,  or 47x94, or 45 x 97 or 95 or whatever seems like a good idea at the mill on the day. In imperial days, up until about 1990 a 2x4 was finished to 1 3/4" x 3 3/4". 

 
I build in metric but still visualize in imperial. Haven't quite gotten to the point of looking at an 8 foot span of cabinets and visualizing it as 2438.4 mm....
 
Gwerner said:
I build in metric but still visualize in imperial. Haven't quite gotten to the point of looking at an 8 foot span of cabinets and visualizing it as 2438.4 mm....
[member=43644]Gwerner[/member]
Anyone fully working in a metric environment would have the same problem visualising 2438.4mm. It is easier for us to visualise 2400mm or 2.4 metres. Which incidentally is one of the standard sheet and timber lengths.

The difficulty you face is acomidating metric to an imperial environment where that  8ft cabinet is going to be 8ft. In a house constructed to metric standards the measurement of that cabinet is going to be exactly 2400mm;  not 2438.4mm.
 
Untidy Shop said:
Gwerner said:
I build in metric but still visualize in imperial. Haven't quite gotten to the point of looking at an 8 foot span of cabinets and visualizing it as 2438.4 mm....
[member=43644]Gwerner[/member]
Anyone fully working in a metric environment would have the same problem visualising 2438.4mm. It is easier for us to visualise 2400mm or 2.4 metres. Which incidentally is one of the standard sheet and timber lengths.

The difficulty you face is acomidating metric to an imperial environment. That 8ft cabinet is going to be 8ft. In a house constructed to metric standards the measurement that cabinet is going to be exactly 2400mm.

[member=19746]Untidy Shop[/member] I hear you, and you're absolutely right. I don't think I articulated it correctly, but I'm with you. When I'm planning something for the house, I'll think about it (and explain it to the wife) in terms of 8 ft, but when I build it I will actually go with the 2400 mm as my finished dimensions. Obviously not the ideal way of doing things, but I'm getting there.
 
[size=13pt][member=43644]Gwerner[/member]
Yes its really a matter of practice or some experience - metric or imperial. Because I often work in a timberyard, I estimate longer lengths by my height. Because I am approx 6ft, that's 1800mm, so 2700mm is above my head, 3000 and 3600 really above my head. Then 4200 and 4800mm are OK even at horizontal. But 5400 and 6000mm that can be confusing, especially if the customer has already loaded it themselves. Out comes the tape measure!  [big grin]
 
[member=1984]johnbro[/member] beaver on friend. The yard is like meter with 10% off.
The easiest way to become bilingual is what you a doing.

When one learns German and Spanish, then do not need to erase all traces of English. They can know both, and Aramaic and Greek too.
 
Here in Canada we measure road distance in kilometers and have been doing so exclusively for at least the past 40 years. 

The same goes with liquid measurements, where we use the litre; they're our reference, not pints or gallons.

So clearly your comment is incorrect.

Just as an aside, the older I get and the more experience I have in life and through travelling abroad, the less I use the word "absolutely".

Ross 71 said:
All road distances and speeds are in miles because  kilometres mean absolutely nothing to anyone, anywhere. Everyone has to convert liters to pints or gallons to get any sense of scale.
 
I hate it... It makes my Math and measurements too easy...  MATH should not be easy, it's a universally accepted fact.... [poke]
 
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