Heat Checking in Kapex Saw Casting

[Dion Marriott]

Hi guys,

This is my first post so please be kind. After lots of research, and much deliberation, I purchased a Kapex 120 saw. My very first Festool tool!

When I got it home, I did a pre-start inspection and found, what appeared to be, heat checking (cracking) in the rotary table die casting directly below the bevel pivot. Tipping up the saw and looking underneath, I found more in the same general area. Vertical cracks in the ribbing.

I took the saw, and my concerns back to the store, and the kind people pulled out another saw to replace it. I checked this one and found the same thing. I then checked the three Kapex saws on display, and found heat checking in the same area in all three. The good people at the store assured me that the heat checking was not a concern, and that they have never had a Kapex casting fail. However my confidence was shot, so I asked for my money back, and left saw-less.

I still need a saw, and still prefer the Kapex, but... for what I intend to use it for the heat checking would not be a serious risk, but it would annoy me no end knowing that it is there, in a top of the line saw.

Has anybody else notice this in their saws? Is it common to all Kapex saws or am I just lucky enough to find the five in existence with heat checking? Is it a known defect that people just accept, except fussy people like me?

I am at a loss and a stand still. I must await the wise words from experienced people from this group.

Many thanks in advance for advice and information given.

Dion.

 

[TomGadwa1]

It would help if you could have taken some pictures to show the areas of concern. I just looked underneath my KAPEX and unless I am missing something I found no vertical cracks like you describe. BUT I can not be totally sure as I have no visual reference i.e. picture for purposes of comparison.

 

[Kev]

Mine looks perfect - I'd love to see the problem area ???

 

[agehall]

If Festool did have a problem at the production line at one point, I think it wouldn't be surprising if it affected more than one saw. Moreover, the saws shipped to your dealer could very well have come of that production line in sequence.

I have certainly not seen any kinds of cracks in my saw, so I'm guessing those did have some sort of issue. If you can, go back to your dealer and get a few pics of it and post them here. I would also recommend that you try looking at a saw at another dealership. They might have saws from some other batch.

Good luck with your Kapex shopping!

 

[Dion Marriott]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies. I took some photos of the first Kapex saw with my phone. Quality is not greatest, but you can see the dark lines in the casting.

The checking occurred in the same location in all the saws I looked at.

I hope this illustrates the heat checking well enough.

Dion.

 

[AlexThePalex]

So why would these tiny cracks be a problem?

 

[agehall]

So why would these tiny cracks be a problem?

The cracks themselves are probably not a huge issue. The problem is what they could be an indication of. If you see small cracks in aluminium, it's a good sign that there will be more coming.

However, I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of powder coating on those areas that are shown in the picture and couldn't it then be just the coating that has cracked a bit. In that case, it would be harmless.

 

[durango]

Unbolted and closely examined mine.  No signs of cracks in this one manufactured in 2009...  Anybody else have them? 

Tiny cracks can be a problem, sometimes they lead to bigger cracks.  For sure they never fix themselves.  Honda's Goldwing 1800 sometimes developed frame "cracks" in  2001-2004.  As I recall about 35,000 motorcycles had to be recalled for repair.  What a nightmare that was for Honda.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I know how tiny cracks can become bigger cracks under certain circumstances. I fail to see how those circumstances apply to the base of the Kapex. A machine that most of the time sits stationary on a desk is not like a motorcycle that cruises the highways with 100 mph. 

 

[andvari]

I know how tiny cracks can become bigger cracks under certain circumstances. I fail to see how those circumstances apply to the base of the Kapex. A machine that most of the time sits stationary on a desk is not like a motorcycle that cruises the highways with 100 mph. 

That's probably true - but it could impair the resale value of the tool down the road. I'd try to get one that didn't have cracks.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Mine might be full of them, but I really never bothered to look and this is not going to make me do it either.

This is being pretty anal, if you ask me.

 

[durango]

Call me old fashioned, I expect $1200 saws to be "crack" free.  Mine is and I'm very happy with it... 

And I have no intention of taking it on a 100 mph ride, that would be illegal around these parts.  [smile] [smile] [smile]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

All I care about it is how it cuts wood. [big grin]  After all it is a tool, not an airplane or something.

Those cracks look like the finish has a crack. 

 

[tiralie]

All I care about it is how it cuts wood. [big grin]  After all it is a tool, not an airplane or something.

Those cracks look like the finish has a crack. 

I agree with Warner... I often do  [big grin]

Dion were you actually able to cut wood with the saw? I think if you did you would quickly forget about the little cracks and just get on with what ever you had to do.

I never would have thought to check under the saw, so after reading this I was curious. I don't have any "cracks" on my Kapex, not that I would care.
Tim

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I don't even know what the underneath of my Kapex looks like.

I buy Festool power tools for a couple reasons. 

1.  There tool is usually the best one out there.

2.  If something comes up and I have a problem with a tool, Festool will help me take care of it some how, some way.

It is a tool, it is meant to be used and during the course of use, they usually get dirty, some scratches, ran over by your truck, sanded in half, etc.

 

[AlexThePalex]

This is being pretty anal, if you ask me.

I have the same impression.

Look, we've had a gazillion threads here about the Kapex, with probably a gazillion problems and solutions, but nobody ever mentioned these cracks to be a problem. Nobody ever even mentioned noticing them. Then one guy shows up and he find these cracks in every Kapex he gets his hands on. And acts like it's a big deal. While previous experiences by a lot of people show the opposite.

And then, even if these little fractures exist, if you think about how the Kapex is used, how it is built, and how the forces are applied to the base of the Kapex, then you will see that these tiny fractures will never lead to failure of the base.

You can't compare this to fractures you find in a bridge or a motorcycle's frame. Those are two things that have to withstand tremendous forces. The base of the Kapex needs to hold a very small force. When you see the pictures of the base supplied above you can see how many cross members there are. Those distribute the forces applied even more. You could drill many holes in your Kapex' base and it would still function perfectly for a long as the saw lives.
     

 

[peter halle]

Since when is it wrong for someone - especially a new member - to come here and express a concern?  It happens several times a day.  Whether it has been a label that doesn't stick, a peeling splinter guard, a pad that doesn't rotate, a paint or metal coating that chips, etc., we read about it and 99.97 percent of the time the members here try to help out with answers or avenues for help.

What was so different in this case?  He bought a Kapex, he noticed something he was concerned about and he took it back.  He looked at others at the dealer, noticed the same thing and decided to pass.  Then he researched, found the FOG, came and asked questions.  Then he frankly got treated basically like an idiot by numerous members for examining his saw and having concerns and asking us about it.  That isn't the way we normally do it here.  If you re-read the opening post he admits that this was his first Festool and asked that we not be hard on him.  What may not be important to you might just be the most important thing at that time to someone else and how you say something can be as important as what you say.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

And the consensus was, it is a silly thing to worry about.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Since when is it wrong for someone - especially a new member - to come here and express a concern?  
...
Then he frankly got treated basically like an idiot by numerous members for examining his saw and having concerns and asking us about it.  That isn't the way we normally do it here.

Peter, I know you are a moderator and all here, but aren't you going a bit overboard here? Nobody is treating the OP in the way you say. I do find that the OP is making a mountain out of a molehill, and if thinking so is an offence here, then I must say I am guilty. But at the same time I think now you're making a mountain out of a molehill too. 

The OP is saying he really would like to get a Kapex. But because of seeing these cracks he now has some reservations about the quality of the saw. All we are doing is trying to asssure him his reservations are unfounded. We are not allowed to do that?

I'm sorry, but sometimes peope worry TOO much. I don't see what's wrong telling them if they do.

 

[PeterK]

Well I side with the OP and Peter.
Dion says he found cracks in the top AND bottom of the table below the pivot point. I know I would be concerned after paying $1300!! I looked at my 2 Makita saws - 10" and 7 1/2" - and found no cracking in the castings anywhere. If what Dion saw is just cracking in the finish then obviously it is of no concern. If it is in the aluminum and penetrates then it is reason to wonder.
At this point, I would take Dion's concerns as something that needs to be checked out. Would have really been nice if the saw had been sent to Festool to be looked at but not practical as he is in Australia.