Help choosing a compact drill - CXS vs Bosch vs Milwaukee

[Goz]

Hi everyone. I'd like some opinions on 12v drills. I'm looking for something small and light that can handle the majority of my drilling and driving tasks. For now, that will be home remodeling (replacing door knobs and hinges, installing deadbolts, replacing switches and outlets, hanging plywood in the shed, installing shelving, etc). I have a 14.4v Ridgid that will handle any heavier duty tasks, it's just large and heavy to lug around for the lighter duty tasks.

I've heard great things about the Milwaukee 2407.  Milwaukee has a ton of 12v offerings if I decide I need more cordless tools, but the weight is a bit heavier than its competitors. I've also heard great things about the Bosch PS31. And the Bosch 12v line includes all the tools I am likely to buy. They are both pretty inexpensive, but don't come in a Systainer, so if I decide to purchase one to satisfy my OCD organization tendencies, the cost goes up quite a bit.

And then there's the CXS. I've read tons on the forum about it. Seems like most people love it. From a spec standpoint, it doesn't match the Bosch or Milwaukee. The price is significantly higher, but with my $50 voucher and the $50 PayPal/eBay promo at CPO, it becomes pretty reasonable. I'm not sure I would take full advantage of the centrotech system, but I have had occasion where the 90 degree head would have been helpful. And I know the precision, ergonomics, and quality will be there with Festool.

So I'm wondering if anyone currently owns or has previously owned more than one of the drills I'm considering and can point out pros or cons. Or from CXS owners, do you think my anticipated tasks can be handled by the CXS?

Thanks in advance for your help!
David

 

[davetink]

I have the Bosch stuff. 12V drill, 12V brushless drill, 12V impact, worklight. All use the same battery which take a long time to charge but I have 4 of them so..... Pretty happy with them--light weight, powerful (for most things), cheap, comfortable to use.

 

[antss]

I have them all.  Well, I ditched the Milwaukee a few years ago because it was too heavy as you say.

The bosch wins from a pure value perspective for the homeowner looking to complete projects.  And you mentioned they also have other tools like a jigsaw, impact driver, multi tool, ect... that festool just can't match.  Replacement batteries are less costly too.  Centrotec is wonderful if you have the xtra $$$, otherwise.........

You can get the bosch drivers in an lboxx , which is systainer's direct competitor if that's the only thing bugging you.

The batteries take approx. 45min to charge.  Pretty standard for this type regardless of manuf.  And, like I said they are cheap enough to have xtras lying about.

In my opinion FT missed the boat on the small Li-ion powered drills years ago and they are playing catch up with milwaukee and bosch in that arena.  Not sure they are ever going to get in the game with the companion tools either since they just doubled down on the big 18v battery saws.

 

[RKA]

The CSX is fantastic from an ergonomic standpoint for most of the things you've outlined.  The only thing I wish they improved upon is the trigger control.  If you use one of their brushless models like a C15/18, you'll find the CXS was left out in the wood shed when the R&D team was doing their work.  Still, it's something I can live with, so I wouldn't base any decision on that finer point. 

The issue with the CXS is a practical one.  The centrotec system contributes to the light weight and flexibility of the CSX.  Take that away and put a 3 jaw chuck on the end and it becomes nose heavy and clunky imho.  And whether you're using the right angle chuck or not, you've also added a couple inches with the jacobs style chuck which can be problematic in tight spots. 

So the solution is get the CXS and centrotec fittings right?  Yes, but....  Here in the good old USA, Festool is happy to provide the centrotecs they think you will need for the CXS, everything else, NAINA.

In practice, I find myself reaching for the CXS more and more because of the light weight.  But an 18V non-Festool is never very far.  Sometimes you want a bit more grunt, but usually because you need to do something and lack a centrotec bit for the job.  Last week I needed a 10mm forstner bit to help a friend modify an ikea cabinet as well as a few normal length metric drill bits.  My zobo kit only went down to 15mm.  My metric centrotecs are stubby bits, the rest were standard round shank non-Festool bits. 

So, in use the "system" is a bit clumsy to me.  The other systems are a little bigger and heavier, but the differences diminish when you add the jacobs style chuck to the CXS.  The other systems also have a larger ecosystem of other tools compatible with the same battery system while the CXS lives on it's own island.

 

[The.Handyman]

I absolutely love my Bosch 12v tools! The jigsaw is amazing. I use the PS21 screwdriver all the time for precision work.

 

[Cheese]

The CSX is my go-to drill for probably 90% of the things I do. After that I'll grab a Milwaukee 18V or the Festool C 15, but those are real rare occasions. It's small, light weight and pretty powerful for its size. This last weekend I was using it to drill 1" holes in cement backer board and 1/2" holes in aluminum fence posts for electrical grommets. Just make sure you get the 2.6Ah batteries, they make a huge difference.

 

[Cochese]

Went with the Bosch 12v instead of the CXS or similar. No regrets at all.

 

[Peter_C]

Here I would go opposite of others and say if you decide the Festool CSX isn't for you, then go with the Milwaukee lineup. Either way make sure they are brushless for the extra power and battery longevity (Milwaukee lists them as the FUEL lineup). One reason alone is all the other tools Milwaukee offers in the M12 lineup, as it is extensive. No other company compares. Milwaukee "right now" is the leader in batteries. (FWIW my 18volt cordless tools are Makita, point being I am not brand loyal.) I have the M12 Brushless impact and drill, along with the caulking gun (It rocks! and will lay a heavy bead of PL400 out of the quart tube easily), jig saw (Works great for cutting plywood sheeting), angle driver (Gets into tight places, plus with 1/4" drill bits can drill in tight places), LED lights (New even brighter one on the way), rotary tool (Replaced my Dremel with a cordless, handy for touchups on locks, hinges mortises, etc), and their little multi-tool is far handier for light work (Like sheetrock) then my large and heavy Makita cordless version. The M12 impact does 80% of the work on remodels. Very rarely do I have to go up to an 18volt impact, except when doing repetitive work or driving larger lags. I have used my M12 drill for cutting 3 1/2" holes with a hole saw in plywood sheeting. The best part of the M12 impact is it fits into my tool bags or vest and doesn't fall out.

Festool of course still plays a part in this as their bit holder holders work better than anything I have found. Allows me to keep the most commonly used bits at my finger tips.

Throw on a competitors coupon if the sets are available in store, or order thru your local store.http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Ha...-Kits/N-5yc1vZc2ec/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-milwaukee+m12?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5

 

[mkasdin]

i have the milwaukee (fuel) drills in 18v and 12 volt. I wouldn't call them great drills, but for doing remodels and putting the tools through their paces it is good. The impact driver is very good. I also own a festool TXS drill and I really like that drill alot and after i used it a few times i fell in love with it. (haha). I can't say that with the milwaukee. So they get different uses and i really need both. So the Milwaukee does 80% of the work in a remodel, but when i have an excuse to use the festool i don't hesitate, i just won't through it into the dirt, which i will with the milwaukee..

 

[duburban]

Get the new tiny Makita 18v. Thing looks perfect for all tasks.

 

[bobfog]

Get the new tiny Makita 18v. Thing looks perfect for all tasks.

What's the model number?

 

[Goz]

Thanks for all the great advice so far.  I will have to check out the Makita. I checked out all 3 drills I was considering in person today. The Milwaukee felt big and heavy. Bosch was good, but the grip was a little large. The CXS was a good size and weight and well balanced (at least with the centrotech chuck). Not sure I'm any closer to making a decision...

 

[antss]

Peter - the milwaukee and bosch lineups are made by the same firm and the batteries are identical from what I've been told.

The Bosch jigsaw is miles ahead of that whale looking milwaukee thing.  I think the multi tools is more comfortable to use but some may like the heft of the milwaukee. 

I am disappointed that CXS is not brushless and has no plans of joining the big boys according to a recent discussion around here recently.  Still a nice rig with a  centrotec kit , but at $600 + to make the system work its got a high cost of admission that most people will not be able to afford.  If you opt out of centrotec, and use the jacobs chuck then there a lots better out there in my opinion.

I think you've really got to go handle all of them to see which feels best in your hand - the ergonomics are all quite different.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=61366]Goz[/member] Just to add another option [eek]

I'm rather fond of the 12 volt offering by Hitachi. Lowes carries them and for only $129.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-3-...on-Cordless-Combo-Kit-with-Soft-Case/50300607

Frankly all the other brands make fine equipment, But the way that the battery fits in the pistol makes them all a bit too bulky and uncomfortable for me. And I've got big hands.

I've actually just been driving three inch screws with the impact before I came in. They work for me. They are not brushless and the range that Hitachi offers in 12 volt is limited but I like them. If you have a Lowes nearby you might want to take a look.

 

[Peter_C]

Peter - the milwaukee and bosch lineups are made by the same firm and the batteries are identical from what I've been told.

The batteries are opposite and I doubt they are made in the same plant but a quick internet search would probably reveal parent companies.

The Bosch jigsaw is miles ahead of that whale looking milwaukee thing.  I think the multi tools is more comfortable to use but some may like the heft of the milwaukee.

LOL the Milwaukee jigsaw is a big ole hunk. It works though. Not sure what you mean by the heft of the M12 multi-tool as it is small and very easy to handle.

Simple specs tell a story. Although never trust a manufacturer.

Bosch impact 975 in. lbs.
Milwaukee M12 FUEL 1/4 in. Hex impact driver 1200 in. lbs. of torque
Makita compact impact 18 volt 1,240 in. lbs. of max torque
Hitachi Impact driver delivers 955-in-lbs of torque

Bosch drill 265 in. lbs. of torque which is only a 3/8" chuck.
Milwaukee M12 FUEL 1/2 in. hammer drill/driver up to 350 in. lbs.
Makita compact drill 18 volt 350 in. lbs. of max torque.
Hitachi doesn't list specs for their drill.

Size and weight vs torque output leaves the Milwaukee ahead. I can't imagine having any less power than the M12 Fuel. The Makita stuff is kinda a joke as it is huge for how little power it produces. I do like the 2.0ah batteries on my regular sized impact driver though, and the full sized impact is sooo smooth driving screws.

EDIT: Bosch offers a 3 year.
Milwaukee has a 5 year warranty.
Makita has a 3 year warranty.

 

[nickao]

The fuel version of the Milwaukee are heavier than the brush versions. I have Makita, Bosch and Milwaukee and still prefer the Milwaukee Fuel even though they are heavier.

Milwaukee has at least  different 3 drill drivers, but if you haven't held the screw gun version you should. It's much smaller and lighter than the drill/drivers and my favorite tool.

I like the M12 line the best myself, just too many inexpensive quality tools to dismiss it because of the 1/2" drill/driver being a tad heavy.

What I find is when people go cordless drill they really want a cordless screwdriver. If you haven't already try the 2402 screw gun below before you decide, and use the drill/driver the 3/8" or 1/2" M12 version, drill when you need it. The two 3/8" M12 drills are lighter than the 1/2" M12 version as well if weight is your concern..
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-24...UTF8&qid=1479421508&sr=8-2&keywords=milwaukee+2402

[attachimg=1]

As far as that 12V Milwaukee jig its actually so easy to use(as weird as it is), that being said I have the 12V Bosch as well, all other 12V tool are Milwaukee though. I am betting Milwaukee comes out with a jig very similar to the Bosch 12V in the next year or two. For all practical purposes the Bosch and Milwaukee 12V lines are so near the same you can't go wrong with either. Milwaukee has a better, larger line up and better warranty though. And in the hand the Milwaukee tools side by side, tool to tool, feel a bit beefier or more durable in almost every case.

 

[antss]

Peter - no internet search needed.  The cells inside the cases are the same brand.  Yes, the pins are reversed negating cross use.

You are also not comparing apples to apples - which is hard to do between those lines.  Bosch has a big m12 fuel battery too.  BAT420 is a 4.0 amp hour battery as opposed to the 3.0 amp hour rating of the  common M12 fuel offering.  18v anything is going to have better specs over a 10.8/12v tool  [doh]

But...................milwaukee has a 4.0 a battery too, AND even a new(ish) 6.0a battery though you'll not likely see either at your local dealer. 

The warranty is also not really a differentiator , bosch's tool is 3 years and the batteries are two.  Only a couple of the 12v milwaukee battery line is 3yrs AND bosch's mice type is more liberal including "wear" on the batteries where as milwaukee's is "defect" giving them a larger out clause.

Use the 10.8/12v bosch multi and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Oh, and it's not just the batteries made in the same plant !  TTi is the juggernaut and they are suing TTS among other for simply using lithium batteries in portable tools ; which they claim to hold a patent on. 

n.b. - the suit is at least two years old and I don't know the disposition of it as I no longer have Westlaw access.  Hitachi and Makita decided to pay up and were/are not defendants.

 

[Huxleywood]

One of the better recent 12v Drill/Driver comparisons. https://www.protoolreviews.com/buying-guides/best-12v-cordless-drill-roundup/25102/

For me personally I prefer the CXS for "woodworking" but usually use it in conjunction with my Bosch PS-31 for drill and driving duties, I would actually like to have a second CXS and may go that way unless Bosch or Makita have a 12v brushless set at a stupid price in the next month or so. 

For building furniture I find the CSX has more than enough power and I love the size/shape and ergonomics but for more carpentry or DIY tasks I usually use the Bosch or more likely my 18v drills.  I think the brushless Milwaukee 12v 2403 makes a good case for many to give up their 18v drills but for me I want a small/light 12v to work where a 18v is cumbersome.  If the CSX wasn't an option (or I could only have one 12v drill/driver) then my choice would be the Bosch PS32 which has the power/run time/size/weight balance that I think is the best for my workflow in the shop. 

 

[nickao]

Milwaukee has a 6.0ah 12V battery as well, along with the 2.0, 2.5, 3.0 and 4.0ah. And the 6.0ah is not big at all.

I have had the 4ah battery in my screw gun for almost two weeks and I use it everyday.

I love all the 12V Milwaukee stuff, I took down a 8" Oak with a 12V hackzall, its crazy stuff how those little tools pack such a punch.

 

[antss]

Mentioned that already.  The form factor of the milwaukee 3.0,4.0 and 6.0 batteries and the bosch 4.0 are all the same.  They are just using higher capacity cells.

The battery tech is making strides at a fevered pace.  I have been using the BAT420 for two years or more in several tools.  No word if they are going to offer a 6.0 Ah version .