Help with choosing Extractor/Sander combo!

[IanC]

New to the forums and hoping I can get a little feedback/consult on which setup may better suit my needs. I have a small painting company in Delaware, have been aware of the Festool products and have had them on our wish list for some time. We are finally ready to make the switch to dustless and I've been doing my homework, talking to reps, cust service, but figured there's no better advice than from guys using them daily.

We do mostly interior re-paints and drywall patchwork. Some exterior including decks but pretty minimal there. We put a pretty heavy emphasis on our prep, pre-sanding before primer/in between coats, lot's of skim work/surface restoration type stuff. We do some drywall installs, not enough to consider the Planex at this point, but enough to wonder if i should start with a CT 36 E AC to use with festool hand sanders in anticipation of an eventual Planex purchase..

Main application would be: drywall patch sanding and drywall skim sanding, pre-sanding and sanding between coats in higher profile areas..
Secondary applications would be: prepping trim work, prepping cabinets, removing old paint layers, sanding exterior work, decks..

Where I'm at now: Confused. Budget is certainly a factor (topping out around $1,200 for initial purchase) I know i'm not going to meet all my needs in our initial purchase, but want to meet as many as possible.

As far as sanders go, I'm looking at the ETS 150 EQ (probably the 5mm) and the ETS 125 REQ. They sound like a good introduction to the line and probably a good option for patchwork and skimming. Also considering the ETS EC 125 & 150 (again, probably 5mm) and the ROTEX 90. My concern is that the ETS EC and ROTEX stuff while having the ability to be dialed back, will still be a bitt too aggressive for some of the patch/skim work we do, making the ETS 150 EQ and 125 REQ better options for us..?

On the Extractor side of things, I'm considering the CT 36 E AC with the thought that we'll eventually add a Planex to the setup. My concerns are the loss of HEPA and whether or not that extractor will work ideally with the handheld sanders (obviously needing a 27mm hose). I'm also considering forgetting about the fact we'll most likely purchase a Planex down the road, and go with one of the other vacs.

Any help/suggestions would be awesome! Im looking to pull the trigger this week

 

[Sanderxpander]

I haven't compared but I don't think the ETS EC is considered as much more "aggressive" than the non EC model.

Also, if you're going into people's homes, it's conceivable that the CT 36 is too big for comfort. Since the VACs are equal apart from container volume, maybe consider a CT 26?

The ETS EC 125 fits a 150mm pad too, the ETS EC 150 doesn't fit a 125mm pad. FWIW I bought a Mirka Deros kit instead (125mm/150mm pads included) which I really like except that the dust port requires a little more fidgeting with the new bayonet style Festool hose.
I don't have a larger Rotex but I think it would be quite uncomfortable holding vertically for fine work for any amount of time. The ETS EC on the other hand is significantly lighter than the non EC model. I do have a Rotex 90 that's great for stripping small frames like around doors, or even the rails and styles of classic doors. It's definitely too slow for large areas. Even if you have to it only incidentally I think you'd go nuts doing more than a couple of square feet. It does come with the delta pad which is nice, it's my only corner sander, but the balance of the whole thing is a bit off, so it's not very comfortable to use except for the odd corner you really can't reach otherwise.

 

[leakyroof]

I own 4 Festool Vacs, CT Sys, Midi, 26 and 36 Auto. For small touch ups and light work, either of the smaller vacs will work, but the Midi WILL have the edge in both suction adjustment and larger capacity.

Larger jobs, it’s either the 26 or 36.  A big nod to the 26 if you encounter stairs often .  [big grin]
I use my 36 Auto for both regular sanding and Drywall sanding , but I have an Oneida Deputy mounted on top of it to really lower the amount of debris that ends up in the Vac’s bag.
Do look for used Vacs to save money . Sometimes they are being sold as a pair with a sander as well.
For paint and drywall work, I think the DTS 400 is a stellar sander , more stable than using the RO 90 since it has a larger Delta footprint.
I own both versions of the ETC sanders, old and new EC.  Using an EC on vertical or overhead work is way more fun and less tiring than the older body/style.

 

[semenza]

New to the forums and hoping I can get a little feedback/consult on which setup may better suit my needs. I have a small painting company in Delaware, have been aware of the Festool products and have had them on our wish list for some time. We are finally ready to make the switch to dustless and I've been doing my homework, talking to reps, cust service, but figured there's no better advice than from guys using them daily.

We do mostly interior re-paints and drywall patchwork. Some exterior including decks but pretty minimal there. We put a pretty heavy emphasis on our prep, pre-sanding before primer/in between coats, lot's of skim work/surface restoration type stuff. We do some drywall installs, not enough to consider the Planex at this point, but enough to wonder if i should start with a CT 36 E AC to use with festool hand sanders in anticipation of an eventual Planex purchase..

Main application would be: drywall patch sanding and drywall skim sanding, pre-sanding and sanding between coats in higher profile areas..
Secondary applications would be: prepping trim work, prepping cabinets, removing old paint layers, sanding exterior work, decks..

Where I'm at now: Confused. Budget is certainly a factor (topping out around $1,200 for initial purchase) I know i'm not going to meet all my needs in our initial purchase, but want to meet as many as possible.

As far as sanders go, I'm looking at the ETS 150 EQ (probably the 5mm) and the ETS 125 REQ. They sound like a good introduction to the line and probably a good option for patchwork and skimming. Also considering the ETS EC 125 & 150 (again, probably 5mm) and the ROTEX 90. My concern is that the ETS EC and ROTEX stuff while having the ability to be dialed back, will still be a bitt too aggressive for some of the patch/skim work we do, making the ETS 150 EQ and 125 REQ better options for us..?

On the Extractor side of things, I'm considering the CT 36 E AC with the thought that we'll eventually add a Planex to the setup. My concerns are the loss of HEPA and whether or not that extractor will work ideally with the handheld sanders (obviously needing a 27mm hose). I'm also considering forgetting about the fact we'll most likely purchase a Planex down the road, and go with one of the other vacs.

Any help/suggestions would be awesome! Im looking to pull the trigger this week

Hi,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

      It seems that you realize one set up will not do it all.  It is even difficult for your situation to have one set cover "the most". If I were you I would pick one sort of thing and get the right stuff for those types of tasks. You will be getting more anyone especially in a pro situation.

      EX- CT36AC is great for dry wall and related but not as good for the rest. As has been mentioned it is also larger. I would pick to go after the drywall side of things, the prep bare wood , the stripping, or the between coats. Pick one and get set up for that. You will get the best arrangement for the task without compromising. 

      For drywall the CT36AC is the way to go. But for the rest the non-AC line is better. CT26 or even Midi (very portable and you don't need a lot of capacity for sanding.)

    Doing this will sort out a lot of the confusing/ difficult decision making. Once you get started it will be easy to add sanders for tasks as you find the need.

Seth

 

[mwildt]

Lots of choices for sure. Some questions I'd ask my self in that situation

- what task do I want to go dustless on first. Some tools are suitable to more areas than others, but narrow your tasks down to one.
- what is the size of that task
- what grits do I use the most currently

Dust extractor I'd start with a midi then grow from there, only exception is if you start with a planex. The midi is light and will come handy for most situations even when you take on more tasks on your list.

If you haven't yet go check out the Festool paint brochures. They list examples on products for specific tasks, grits etc.
https://www.festoolusa.com/knowledge/downloads#Catalogs

 

[Sanderxpander]

Also, Festool abrasives are mostly sold in boxes of at least fifty and if you need a bunch of grits (and maybe a systainer) that cost can quickly become nearly as much as the sander. I got the Rotex 90 with 40/80/120/180 in both circular and delta, with a systainer, and it was close to 400 euros I think.

 

[IanC]

Thanks for the replies! It seems I need to narrow my focus on which tasks we would like to go dustless on for our initial purchase.

On a typical job, if we are generating dust, it's 90% from sanding drywall patches and skims. So for now, I think it seems best to narrow my focus accordingly.

As far as sanding patchwork and skim coats (vs larger drywall installs/finishing), my understanding is the CT 36 E AC is not necessary and that we would be better served with a different unit?

Sander side: Im thinking of going with a ETS EC 150, just not sure whether to go 3mm or 5mm. Like I said, in this scenario we will be using it primarily for drywall patch and skim coat sanding, which makes me lean towards the 3mm. However, ideally, i'd like to use it for pre-sanding on walls that have multiple old coats to level out the surface (pre-primer, pre skims) which makes me lean a bit more towards the 5mm..?

Was also considering an ETS 125 REQ for smaller area patch work, especially considering the price.

One other consideration would be to add in a RO 90 for some prep/removal on windows, casings, baseboards..

Any thoughts on an Extractor and the sanders I've listed? I think i am started to hone in on a initial setup.

Again, thank you so much for the help. I'm fully aware this won't be our last Festool purchase..

 

[TinyShop]

If I were you I would consider a German-made and rebranded Starmix iPulse extractor fitted with dual HEPA filters. They can be had in the U.S. with Metabo branding as well as CS Unitec (among others). Search this forum for more info and also check out the Mafell Users Forum which has multiple threads dedicated to these vacs. This year's models (in Europe) feature the ability to fasten systainers to the top (not sure when these will make it to N.A.). The advantages are a more powerful motor, continual automatic cleaning of the filters and a tool start receptacle with a higher amperage rating. Low priced accessories & parts (relative to Festool) are readily available through Bosch which, until recently, sold rebranded Starmix vacs in the U.S.

 

[Simon O]

I agree with Tinyshop - a Starmix iPulse is the way to go for extraction. I'm not sure the newer models are available in the U.S. But it's made under license by Metabo and Mafell. Metabo would be the cheapest option. Then given what you've said about your work I'd add either the Festool ETS EC 150/5 or the Mirka Deros in a 5mm orbit. Personally I'd favour the Deros.

I've used most of the Festool line up of sanders, and now the only one remaining is the RO 90 which I use for sash window restoration, stripping paint back to timber. I find the Deros a joy to use, and the interchangeable pad sizes turned out to be more useful than I initially thought - the 5mm orbit will be fine for the tasks you're describing.

Ideally though I'd recommend you try the sanders in the hand first, you may prefer the ergonomics of one over the other. And if you do eventually go for the RO90, it'd be a good idea to research into how best to handle it, particularly in geared mode.
I went dustless 20 years ago - you won't regret it.  [big grin]

 

[IanC]

If I were you I would consider a German-made and rebranded Starmix iPulse extractor fitted with dual HEPA filters. They can be had in the U.S. with Metabo branding as well as CS Unitec (among others). Search this forum for more info and also check out the Mafell Users Forum which has multiple threads dedicated to these vacs. This year's models (in Europe) feature the ability to fasten systainers to the top (not sure when these will make it to N.A.). The advantages are a more powerful motor, continual automatic cleaning of the filters and a tool start receptacle with a higher amperage rating. Low priced accessories & parts (relative to Festool) are readily available through Bosch which, until recently, sold rebranded Starmix vacs in the U.S.

I agree with Tinyshop - a Starmix iPulse is the way to go for extraction. I'm not sure the newer models are available in the U.S. But it's made under license by Metabo and Mafell. Metabo would be the cheapest option. Then given what you've said about your work I'd add either the Festool ETS EC 150/5 or the Mirka Deros in a 5mm orbit. Personally I'd favour the Deros.

I've used most of the Festool line up of sanders, and now the only one remaining is the RO 90 which I use for sash window restoration, stripping paint back to timber. I find the Deros a joy to use, and the interchangeable pad sizes turned out to be more useful than I initially thought - the 5mm orbit will be fine for the tasks you're describing.

Ideally though I'd recommend you try the sanders in the hand first, you may prefer the ergonomics of one over the other. And if you do eventually go for the RO90, it'd be a good idea to research into how best to handle it, particularly in geared mode.
I went dustless 20 years ago - you won't regret it.  [big grin]

Those VACs look awesome. Dual HEPA filters with an auto cleaning function that seems to be better designed than Festool's interval timed auto clean? Hmmm That's definitely not making my decision much easier..

However, I think I want to stick with an all Festool setup. Considering that we'll be using the extractor for drywall patchwork and skimming mainly, and not drywall installation on a large scale, from what i've read on the forum I should be good to go with a CT 26 E. Is that crazy to assume?

 

[Gregor]

Starmix iPulse dosn't seem to be that less expensive, compared to what Festool offers.

 

[Peter_C]

With the 10% off for buying a sander and dust extractor at the same time, I would just go Festool. It is probably convenient for you too if you have a local store to get sandpaper and vacuum bags in a pinch. Although having a Systainer for the sandpaper is nice...it does come in boxes, which could be put into a bigger cardboard box or bin Milwaukee's Packout system is another option for all your tools.

Otherwise Milwaukee also has a new dust extractor out that folks seem to be happy with. It is a rebranded Nilfisk. Although it may require an adapter or new hose for connection to the sander. With Festool you will get their new smooth hose.https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/8960-20

The Midi or CT26 would be a good start. I would recommend the ETS EC 150/5 to start. It is easy to turn the speed down, and use a finer sandpaper when needed, but drywall isn't "finish sanding" by any means. The 5mm will also work better for stripping paint. Down the road an RO90, RO150, LS130, and an ETS EC 125 that will also take a 150mm pad.

 

[leakyroof]

Thanks for the replies! It seems I need to narrow my focus on which tasks we would like to go dustless on for our initial purchase.

On a typical job, if we are generating dust, it's 90% from sanding drywall patches and skims. So for now, I think it seems best to narrow my focus accordingly.

As far as sanding patchwork and skim coats (vs larger drywall installs/finishing), my understanding is the CT 36 E AC is not necessary and that we would be better served with a different unit?

Sander side: Im thinking of going with a ETS EC 150, just not sure whether to go 3mm or 5mm. Like I said, in this scenario we will be using it primarily for drywall patch and skim coat sanding, which makes me lean towards the 3mm. However, ideally, i'd like to use it for pre-sanding on walls that have multiple old coats to level out the surface (pre-primer, pre skims) which makes me lean a bit more towards the 5mm..?

Was also considering an ETS 125 REQ for smaller area patch work, especially considering the price.

One other consideration would be to add in a RO 90 for some prep/removal on windows, casings, baseboards..

Any thoughts on an Extractor and the sanders I've listed? I think i am started to hone in on a initial setup.

Again, thank you so much for the help. I'm fully aware this won't be our last Festool purchase..

  You can get by with just the EC 150/5 for that Drywall work on the wall /patch work.  Just adjust your grit of abrasive and change your sanding force a bit when using the sander.  150/5 ETC's are a great All-Around Sander since they will sand more aggressive than a 3mm orbit version if you need it with say 40 or 60 grit abrasive, but still do nice finish work with grits over 180 grit.
RO 90 is a nice sander in its own right, and with its smaller equal sided Delta head, you are able to rotate the paper as it gets work or clogged, versus the DTC 400 which can't do that with its unique larger paper.

 

[Simon O]

With the 10% off for buying a sander and dust extractor at the same time, I would just go Festool. It is probably convenient for you too if you have a local store to get sandpaper and vacuum bags in a pinch. Although having a Systainer for the sandpaper is nice...it does come in boxes, which could be put into a bigger cardboard box or bin Milwaukee's Packout system is another option for all your tools.

Otherwise Milwaukee also has a new dust extractor out that folks seem to be happy with. It is a rebranded Nilfisk. Although it may require an adapter or new hose for connection to the sander. With Festool you will get their new smooth hose.https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/8960-20

The Midi or CT26 would be a good start. I would recommend the ETS EC 150/5 to start. It is easy to turn the speed down, and use a finer sandpaper when needed, but drywall isn't "finish sanding" by any means. The 5mm will also work better for stripping paint. Down the road an RO90, RO150, LS130, and an ETS EC 125 that will also take a 150mm pad.

If you do decide on going all Festool - I'd personally steer clear of the Midi for the sort of work you've detailed - the CT26 with Hepa filters (do they come as standard in U.S.?) would be a better choice.

And I really would try to trial the Festool ETS EC 150 and the Mirka Deros, I reckon this would decide it for you. In the UK the prices for the 2 sanders are roughly comparable, not sure about the U.S.

 

[mobetta]

As an interior remodeler, I found the midi adequate for many years. The bigger vacs take up quite a bit more real estate in the van, are bulkier and more cumbersome to carry up stairs, are quiet heavy when the bag is full- depending on whats in the bag. Of course they do go a lot longer without changing bags.

I do a lot of my drywall patchwork with the pro 5 and a CT-sys. The tiny vac is probably not an ideal choice for you though as a first DC. Anything more than a small patch and I drag out the Planex and CT36AC.

 

[Woozal]

Get the MIRKA if you want reliability. If you are hypnotized into the festoy cult, then stay away from the brushless motor products.  I think people are catching onto festool’s marketing tactics.  Pros are leaving the brand.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Get the MIRKA if you want reliability. If you are hypnotized into the festoy cult, then stay away from the brushless motor products.  I think people are catching onto festool’s marketing tactics.  Pros are leaving the brand.

You have 1 single product you're not satisfied about. I have around 20 Festools and had a lot more, and I never have problems with the tools themselves that I can't handle.

I must admit I am totally not satisfied with Festool's service, I think they have a lot to improve there, but I do not feel the need to SPAM my TROLLING messsages in every thread possible.

Quit it!

 

[Mario Turcot]

Get the MIRKA if you want reliability. If you are hypnotized into the festoy cult, then stay away from the brushless motor products.  I think people are catching onto festool’s marketing tactics.  Pros are leaving the brand.

This is quite funny because people will rather complaint about Festool being late to adopt brushless motors. All other popular brands already made the plunge into brushless a while ago. Oh and I would like to know why brushless is not a good idea.

P.S. Color matter to me and I don`t like yellow  [tongue]

Mario

 

[aloysius]

A Starmix i-Pulse vac & a couple of Mirka Deros in 5.0 & 3.0 should cover most of your stated (prelim & intermediate paint & drywall) requirements.  I'd consider them (as have others I notice) a "premium" choice of the alternatives.  The 8.0mm orbit model may however be just a bit too "rough" for your prep work.  The addition of a Festool Y-adaptor & a simple double power adapter will allow you to run 2 machines either simultaneously or sequentially without affecting extraction capabilities.

Whilst Festool make fine extractors & sanders in general, I'd personally consider this pairing generally superior, if for no other reason than the quality, effectiveness & longevity of Mirka's Abranet & Gold abrasives.  I'm personally not a fan at all of the little RO90 sander however.  It tends to be something of a compromise in terms of its overall different capabilities (Rot-ary, Ex-zenter & Delta).  Dedicated tools will always perform these tasks in a simpler & more effective manner.  Above all, however, I personally despise the tool's flawed ergonomics and handling: it is just far too difficult to handle and operate smoothly & accurately in rotary mode, & a little less so in random mode.

A quality, proper (i.e. not one of those oscillating tools) Delta sander from any reputable manufacturer will comprehensively outperform the RO90 in terms of handling, reach & accessibility in tight going:  the 90's hand guard/dust spout often just "gets in the way" unneccessarily. Festool's diminutive (discontinued) DX93E or the Bosch GDA280E are both fine examples, with the former having an edge for aggression, & the latter in having a comprehensive range of sanding fingers for (admittedly only fine, small-scale) fine sanding in inaccessible & otherwise unreachable places.  Both these delta sanders also fit Mirka's fabulous mesh abrasives too.

 

[aloysius]

Get the MIRKA if you want reliability. If you are hypnotized into the festoy cult, then stay away from the brushless motor products.  I think people are catching onto festool’s marketing tactics.  Pros are leaving the brand.

This is quite funny because people will rather complaint about Festool being late to adopt brushless motors. All other popular brands already made the plunge into brushless a while ago. Oh and I would like to know why brushless is not a good idea.

P.S. Color matter to me and I don`t like yellow  [tongue]

Mario

It's OK.  They're also available in (Metabo's) Olive Green too.

There's nowt at all wrong with EC motors.  In fact they're even appearing in relatively high torque output guises now too.  It appears as if the days (and the attendant "issues") of Universal (brushed) motors are numbered.  Friction, heat, sparking, wear & power consumption are all significantly reduced with EC motor control.