Help with first purchase...

[supimeister]

Hey all,

I am another newbie who has been lurking the shadows here for quite some time (you know the type).  I am but a hobbyist who loves top notch tools.  I have read as much as I could find here and elsewhere in thinking this through (like some of you - I am an intense researcher), but please point me to places I may have missed...

Also - I bet that many of you will ask, "what are you planning on doing?".  Honestly, I just hope to generally get into woodworking for now - be it building furniture, cabinets, etc. The first projects on my list are shop furniture pieces (bench, router table, storage carts for l-boxxes) as my shop is hardly a shop as of now. And it is small (9'x11').

Anyways, the core of my question: I am planning on buying the MFT/3 and track saw, and 90% convinced on a vac (midi?). I am really tempted to wait for the new Bosch vacs (eta early 2014 for US) – especially since I literally have 20 l-boxxes now.  I am also hoping, over the next 3-5 years, to possibly go more green – things like an OF 1400, kapex, and sanders might join my arsenal... And I am hoping to stay table saw free for space / portability reasons.

My real need for help is with regards to the accessories…

MFT/3 – planning on going the $625 route with all the extra parts to begin with. Not doubting that decision.

1) Which clamps do you recommend?

2) Get the Veritas MFT clamping kit OR break it out into pieces via qwas/parf/track dogs and kreg automaxx bench clamps (x1 or x2?)... I hear the kreg automaxx are better (impressed with videos online). So, in essence, I would create my own kit. I have plenty of kaizen foam and l-boxxes, so the systainer isn't a huge draw. And if I were to just get the parf/track/qwas dogs separately, how many do I need? Which do you recommend? This is one of my stickiest issues... I know, I know... I could wait - but I'd rather just buy it and have it. Or I could be convinced to not buy dogs and get clamping elements or whatnot instead...

3) Slop stop? Yes/no?

4) Clamping elements – yes/no? Too similar to dogs in some ways?

5) A good triangle/square for aligning the mft/3 I think. Woodpeckers maybe? Any other ideas?

6) Am I forgetting anything? What about the extra leg brace supports? Maybe in the future?

Track saw – I am thinking the TS 55 – I don’t plan on needing the extra depth of cut nor power anytime soon to be honest. Unless you can convince me otherwise.

1) The rapid clamp for the track saw – it is unnecessary essentially since I would have the MFT/3, right?

2) Upgrade the track with a dealer's help to the rail with holes, right?

3) I don’t think I need another track anytime soon (I don't think I will need to rip whole sheets anytime soon), but the next one I should buy would be _____. Maybe the 75” – to be able to rip whole sheets even at angles?

4) Anything else? The guide rail accessory kit? Anything I am missing?

Lastly: vac. I am thinking the midi.

I don’t need a huge vac right now – don’t get enough time to create that much dust. Plus, the overall cost of keeping it is cheaper – replacement bags, etc.

1) The festool dust deputy is supposedly able to work with the midi, but requires some minor modification (per customer service). He said it wasn’t anything major – just shaving down a little bit of the box to fit into the midi… I couldn't quite find the right thread to answer this. And some concern with static build up.  Would it be better to get a bigger vac and buy the long life bags?

2) The CT26 is a bit larger, and opens the door to some vac accessories the midi can’t use (thinking future). Plus it might help with the Kapex - any arguments in favor of it over the midi?

3) Anything I am missing?

And honestly, when it comes to money, I am thinking about going all in on the mft/3 and accessories - to just get my feet wet.  It is something I really could use since I STILL haven’t built a solid workbench… and then saving up money again for a track saw+vac combo in a few months. And while it would be nice to find a reason for a forth tool to get the 10% x2, money doesn't grow on trees (THOUGH feel free to suggest what #4 ought to be - I have a Bosch ROS65VC sander, MX30 multitool, and JS572EB jigsaw)

Thanks a ton in advance for your insight. Sorry this is so long!

 

[nclemmons]

Welcome to the FOG.

MFT

- clamping elements are great for quickly holding wood horizontally.  Great for repetitive cuts where you want to quickly clamp and release.  Dogs would provide the stop but you still need a clamp to cinch the piece tight to a dog and that is where the elements shine.  I have two sets.

- clamps - I like the quick release version for clamping more easily with one hand.  I have a pair of each but prefer the quick clamp version.

- the Automax clamps look great.  Erock did a nice YouTube video on them.  I did not spring for the full Veritas set but many here love the set and organization.  I have a set of parf dogs and qwas dogs and the Rail dogs and use them all.  You probably need about four if you want to align the board to two and the rail to two at a right angle.

- I like the slop stop for improving accuracy.

- I have the leg braces as I use my Table a lot and they do improve stability.  I never move my table so they stay in place and add some rigidity.  You can't easily use a plane on a single MFT even with the braces but they do add stability.  Could defer for now and see if you miss them.

- a woodpecker square is the standard.  I have the 18" triangle and like it a lot.  If you use the dogs to square the fence to the holes, you can start with a carpenter square since the Woodpeckers square is typically a long lead time item.  

Track Saw

- the rapid clamps are a nice accessory on longer pieces where you want to quickly clamp a rail, like on a long rail rip cut.  Could defer the purchase and start with the MFT and Festool clamps for now.

- given the small shop, I might suggest two 55" rails, one with holes.  And the guide rail connector.  That will save you some money.

- I don't think the guide rail accessory kit is necessary.  I don't have one and have read many reviews on here that don't think the square is that useful.  

- I'd get a rip blade for the saw.  Far better for long rip cuts in hardwood.

Vac

- I have a Midi and a CT-26 with boom arm.  The suction is similar on both.  Biggest advantage of the 26 is the boom arm attachment if you go down that path.

Other:

- You might look at the Seneca parallel guides.  Helpful for parallel cuts with minimal space

Good luck and share other questions and eventually some work!

Neil

 

[peter halle]

My real need for help is with regards to the accessories…

MFT/3 – planning on going the $625 route with all the extra parts to begin with. Not doubting that decision.

1) Which clamps do you recommend?  The Kwikclamps are nice and speedier, but come at twice the price as the screw clamps.  Odds are that if you continue down the slope you will acquire more clamps - personally I would go with the screw clamps for the cost savings.

2) Get the Veritas MFT clamping kit OR break it out into pieces via qwas/parf/track dogs and kreg automaxx bench clamps (x1 or x2?)... I hear the kreg automaxx are better (impressed with videos online). So, in essence, I would create my own kit. I have plenty of kaizen foam and l-boxxes, so the systainer isn't a huge draw. And if I were to just get the parf/track/qwas dogs separately, how many do I need? Which do you recommend? This is one of my stickiest issues... I know, I know... I could wait - but I'd rather just buy it and have it. Or I could be convinced to not buy dogs and get clamping elements or whatnot instead...  I would go for 4 dogs.  I am partial to Qwas dogs and Golden Retrievers.

3) Slop stop? Yes/no?  No.  You are anticipating that you are going to have an issue.  Many of us don't and otherwise duct tape can snug up.

4) Clamping elements – yes/no? Too similar to dogs in some ways?  For clamping and positioning yes.  For use as a substitute for a dog for cutting - No.

5) A good triangle/square for aligning the mft/3 I think. Woodpeckers maybe? Any other ideas?  You could try a good quality carpenters square.  Test for accuracy.  Return if not square.  Could save a bunch of bucks.  Look at one of the newer aluminum models - CNC machined.  Maybe Empire.

6) Am I forgetting anything? What about the extra leg brace supports? Maybe in the future?  Wait on the leg supports.  See if the table is sturdy enough for you to work on.

Track saw I am thinking the TS 55 – I don’t plan on needing the extra depth of cut nor power anytime soon to be honest. Unless you can convince me otherwise.

1) The rapid clamp for the track saw – it is unnecessary essentially since I would have the MFT/3, right?  Rapid clamp is more specialized.  Wait until you need it.

2) Upgrade the track with a dealer's help to the rail with holes, right? Usually what I would recommend.  Otherwise you might want to look at upgrading to the 75" equiv. rail if you don't see shelf pin holes in the near future.  With the 75 and a couple of rail connectors you COULD use your MFT rail in combo to rip full sheets of ply.  Not the perfect solution, but doable.

3) I don’t think I need another track anytime soon (I don't think I will need to rip whole sheets anytime soon), but the next one I should buy would be _____. Maybe the 75” – to be able to rip whole sheets even at angles? see 2

4) Anything else? The guide rail accessory kit? Anything I am missing?  Many are not fans of the guiderail kit.  Check the price of the 2 screws clamps and 2 rail connectors versus the kit price.  The angle head is not a universally loved accessory, so the other two parts would be what would drive my decision.

Lastly: vac. I am thinking the midi.  Any of the vacs would offer the same performance, it all comes down to capacity.

I don’t need a huge vac right now – don’t get enough time to create that much dust. Plus, the overall cost of keeping it is cheaper – replacement bags, etc.

1) The festool dust deputy is supposedly able to work with the midi, but requires some minor modification (per customer service). He said it wasn’t anything major – just shaving down a little bit of the box to fit into the midi… I couldn't quite find the right thread to answer this. And some concern with static build up.  Would it be better to get a bigger vac and buy the long life bags?

2) The CT26 is a bit larger, and opens the door to some vac accessories the midi can’t use (thinking future). Plus it might help with the Kapex - any arguments in favor of it over the midi?

3) Anything I am missing?

And honestly, when it comes to money, I am thinking about going all in on the mft/3 and accessories - to just get my feet wet.  It is something I really could use since I STILL haven’t built a solid workbench… and then saving up money again for a track saw+vac combo in a few months. And while it would be nice to find a reason for a forth tool to get the 10% x2, money doesn't grow on trees (THOUGH feel free to suggest what #4 ought to be - I have a Bosch ROS65VC sander, MX30 multitool, and JS572EB jigsaw)

My suggestion would be to look at the TS-55REQ / MFT/3 Bundle and save the bucks now.  Use those savings towards your other accessories.  A common shop vac with the appropriate size hose will work with saws and other tools that require full suction.  The advantages of having a Festool dust extractor such as low noise, variable suction, and tool triggered power won't be there, but this would leave you open to a future tool / vac combo in the near future.

Welcome to the FOG, and happy researching and shopping!

Peter

 

[Jmaichel]

Welcome to the FOG!
I too am hobbyist and find Festool extremely useful in my limited shop space. It's funny how more and more Festool products are finding their way into hobby shops. The quality and customer service is top notch. Any the FOG is an excellent resource for just about any question you may have.

I would highly recommend you take a hard look at the TS 75, especially since you are trying to stay table saw free. It really is not that much more and is not that much heavier than the TS-75. You will be very grateful that you went with a TS-75 when you go to cut 8/4 material.

I don't think the LV MFT kit is really all that necessary, I would get a set of screw clamps and 4 Qwas dogs and work with those for awhile. You will then be able to determine what additional accessories you may need. If you can swing it you should buy the TS and the MFT/3 at the same time not only for the cost savings but also so you can put your MFT/3 to use. If you could only get one, then I would opt for the TS over the MFT/3. You can always put a piece of plywood or MDF on a pair of saw horses to function as a make shift bench.
I would follow those purchases up with CT and OF 1400.

 

[supimeister]

Thank you guys for your thoughts so far - very, very helpful!  I am definitely going to think through your thoughts and chew a bit more, but I definitely see a green purchase coming soon

 

[supimeister]

Now the other question I feel stuck on: what should that fourth tool be for the sake of taking advantage of the discount? Rotex? OF 1400? Domino? Kapex?

 

[Jaybolishes]

1400 and domino are musts, man I wish I bought them years ago.  You have to get them that's all I can say. 

 

[ScotF]

If you do not have a router, then I would opt for the 1400 as the next tool or one of the other routers.  I love the Domino, but it would not be the first tool from your extended list since the router is more versatile for furniture making.

Scot

 

[amt]

I thought I would mention that some of the dealers still have the old style mini and midi vacs discounted 10%.  If you buy this with a package (like with a sander) you are essentially getting the midi or mini for 20% off.  As far as I know, the only difference between the older style and the newer style is that the newer one can lock down a systainer with a t-loc.  The older styles can still lock down a systainer, but just in a different way.

 

[K119Phil]

Heya  [welcome] to the FOG!

Very good starters list you've got going on here!  Alot of the guys up top have a bunch of good recommendations already... I'll add a couple more.

MFT/3
- I'd add one or two additional Stop Flags (495542) which then you can toggle up and down for repeatable multi-length cuts on your table.  (The same flags also fit on the Kapex UG-Cart Extensions, in terms of futureproofing).

Track Saw
- You do need to make a decision as to which rails you would like to end up with.  Two 55" (one standard, one holy), or one 55" and one 75", are all common arrangements.  We can handle rail upgrades for you no problem.
- Guide Rail Accessory Kit - I'd still suggest taking this (despite the table), since you plan on joining rails.  Reason being that the Kit includes the Rail Connectors (2x), as well as a new Splinterguard (1400mm/55") strip.  Also in the Kit are 2 screw clamps which can get you started with the TS saw too.

CT Dust Extractors
- In 2012 Festool revamped the entire lineup, so all vacs share the same motor, all producing a very healthy 137CFM.  Only difference now becomes a choice of how big a capacity you need (versus how small for mobility you require.) 
- As noted, the "full size" vacs (26/36/48) do allow more accessories, of which a major one (aside from the boomarm) would be the Workcenter WCR 1000. 

As many have noted, we're are running into the tail end of a rare opportunity for "Closeout" Sale (I don't really like using that word, it implies to me something "less than", which these "replaced" models are not).  These affect CT-Mini and CT-Midi (both of which unfortunately I'm all sold-out of), and ETS 150/3 and 150/5 sanders.

Hope this helps!  Almost all items as listed above are in stock (still working on aftermarket parts... will have them soon!)

 

[rst]

You can save money by going with a Fein vac.  I have a Fein II that has auto start and variable suction and I bought new for less than $350.  I would love to have a Festool vac so my systainers would lock on but for the difference in price you can buy two Feins.

 

[K119Phil]

You can save money by going with a Fein vac.  I have a Fein II that has auto start and variable suction and I bought new for less than $350.  I would love to have a Festool vac so my systainers would lock on but for the difference in price you can buy two Feins.

Not to knock Fein (since I'm also a Fein dealer :), but Festool CT's have higher CFM (137 vs Fein's 116, 18% more!), and CT's are HEPA Certified out of the box (Fein's require an add on HEPA kit).

Really does boil down to task at hand though

 

[amt]

And if you get one of the older Mini's in a a package deal, it costs only $352...

 

[supimeister]

Well... I was already technically a true festool owner since I won 2 sys-mini's in a giveaway a few months ago. BUT now I am truly one: I have a TS55 and MFT/3 on the way, along with 2 quick release clamps, one of the clamping elements, a Woodpeckers square for squaring and in light of my other topic, the Rolair JC10   Excited to see some packages come this way!

 

[supimeister]

Well... I was already technically a true festool owner since I won 2 sys-mini's in a giveaway a few months ago. BUT now I am truly one: I have a TS55 and MFT/3 on the way, along with 2 quick release clamps, one of the clamping elements, a Woodpeckers square for squaring and in light of my other topic, the Rolair JC10   Excited to see some packages come this way!

Were you the other lucky winner of the WWW blog contest?  [big grin]

Yes haha

 

[Jmaichel]

Congrats! The TS 55 and MFT/3 are a great combination! Have fun  [big grin]

James

 

[nclemmons]

Supimeister

Nice assortment of tools.  I am sure you'll get great use out of them.

Share some projects as you learn!

neil

 

[ScotF]

Congrats on the tools...it is a great first purchase.

Scot

 

[leer]

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43838&p=43845

These clamps work great, and have to be one of the best deals around --  $11.90 for a pair!

They were designed for 3/4" holes, but work great in 20mm holes.  The large beveled plastic nut spans the hole very well.  And it has a quick release, so it is easy to add or remove.

I bought mine several years ago, and they got thrown into the back of a drawer since I did not have access to the underside of my workbench. When I built my big MFT, I dug them out.  I still bought Festool clamps, but  these are a great addition to the set of accessories.

 

[atlr]

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31150&cat=1,43838,43845&ap=1

These clamps work great, and have to be one of the best deals around -- $11.90 for a pair!