Help with next Festool purchase

[ShadyMaple]

I took the plunge a couple months ago and have been extremely pleased with my Festools.  I'm looking for the next tool for my small shop and wanted to get some advice.  I'm leaning toward a  Domino or CMS. 

My projects coming up include:  Some cabinets, some shelves, chest of drawers, closet storage, Shed doors, Interior doors, and some raised panels.

I currently have:

TS 55 REQ
MFT
OF1400
New sander (can't recall the model #)
CT-MIDI
Pretty much all of the clamps/etc for MFT including Parf Dogs and Seneca parallel guides

I've priced out some other router tables - Kreg, Woodpeckers and Jessem.  All were priced out with a Triton router - and it seems I'm going to push the $1k mark for a decent router table.  The CMS-VL sits at $1k and works with the router I have, and is portable.  Since I have the MIDI, I can't really take advantage of the split hose like I've seen.  I'd love to hear if someone uses a MIDI with the CMS.  The router table would be mostly for finger joints, stile/rail, and raised panels. 

As far as the Domino - I was thinking an XL with the Senneca bit adapter.  I use a Kreg Jig right now - but would like to switch to jointery that isn't shown.  Because  I want to make some doors out of 2 inch material, I'm thinking the XL is what I will want.  I rarely work with wood greater than 1.5 inches thick, however - so I'm not sure if the 500 would be sufficient.  Sounds like the 500 will only center on max 1" stock - correct?

I know I'm a little long-winded, but I appreciate any advice.  Keep in mind, I have a small shop - so tool portablility is great because I can move outside in the spring/summer/fall, and indoors in the winter.  Also - I'm in the US FYI. 

 

[charley1968]

I'd go for the Domino, probably the 500. You can always build your own router table. I think the Domino is more versatile atm. Choices, choices.. Good luck!

 

[Mort]

I use the DF500 on 1.5" stock all the time. It centers. And if it isn't perfectly centered it doesn't matter, as long as you register it on the same side (which you should do anyway).

 

[ear3]

I generally believe it's good to have a dedicated table router, which is why the Triton would be a great choice (I have the Triton in a Kreg table, but if I had to do it again, I would look at a woodpeckers or Jesse table), and would enable you to run max size router bits if you ever had to.

I've never regretted getting the df500 over the xl, and have built some pretty hefty pieces of furniture with it. Some reasons to consider the xl would be if you plan on building doors, or if you project you might use the domino connectors, which are coming to the states.

 

[nerves]

I have the VL ( just for a few days).. .  So I'm still figuring things out.  IMHO, I would go with the domino 500 which I also own) , if your a hobbyist like me.  Im not "milling" my stock yet... but, when my skills get there, there XL is coming the same day.  Again I'm a newbie and truly just learning.

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[ryanjg117]

Agree with others -- the DF500 is great, and its tennon range will work with all of the projects you've listed. The XL is a wicked machine, but don't forget that it's also a lot heavier. Don't discount ergonomics, especially on a tool you'll use as often as the Domino. I remember initially regretting buying my TS55 and thinking that the TS75, with it's additional plunge depth, would be a better long-term decision. All that went away the moment I actually went into a retailer and lifted the TS75 -- what a beast! Portability is a big deal.

If you're not in a hurry, you can often find deals on Dominos. In the Seattle area, they pop up on Craigslist about once or twice a month. I posted a "Want to Buy (WTB)" on Craigslist and someone replied within the week, and sold me his mint DF500, never used, for $675. I had to peel off the protective plastic from the base. A good deal, yep!

As for router tables, I'd personally recommend building one. I found a great deal on a used fully-built-out Incra offset router table setup with Porter-Cable 3.25 hp router. You can buy metal bases, like this awesome Incra one, or build the entire cabinet out of your preferred sheetgood. I actually had an old Woodpeckers metal stand and built a cabinet inside of it -- you can check it out here and if you'd like the SketchUp plans, I'm more than happy to share.

For controlling your budget, I would focus your spending on the table, fence, and lift. Routers are a dime a dozen and there's a million of them on Craigslist, so just find a 2 hp or better Porter-Cable or DeWalt and you'll be fine. Not sure about Triton as I haven't owned them, but I think Rockler sells them pretty cheap. I don't know about the warranty but it won't be Festool-grade, that's for sure.  [wink]

Have I mentioned that I frickin' love Incra? Made in the US, but with Festool precision. If you're doing a lot of finger joints, an Incra positioner is the way to go. It acts as your fence for the router, has the ability to be offset for jointing, and can be repeatedly adjusted down to 1/100th of 1/32 of an inch. Ridiculous. I'm such a fan that I'm seriously considering their TS-LS tablesaw fence, which is about $500.

 

[nerves]

I was so impressed with the incra ( from a post here and some videos), that the reason I purchased the VL and not the CMS Ge was for the ability to add the LS to my VL on the second mft.  Will pull the "trigger" on that very soon

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[ChuckS]

DF 500 was my first Festool tool and I would suggest it as your choice, because no other substitutes are available. A router and shop jig for floating tenons are not the same thing and don't offer the same degree of functionality and ease of use. There are other competitive router tables that you can look into, on the other hand.

Except for entrance doors and very large projects, the XL is not really necessary for furniture building -- not to mention that we have used DF 500 for years before the XL came out. For day to day use, unless you are a muscle man, the XL will tire you down hands down. Imagine cutting 100 mortises and more for a project (panel glue-up, shelving, and carcass) and holding that machine for an hour.

Chuck

 

[ShadyMaple]

All great advice to hear so far.  Sounds like the 500 would probalby suit my needs.  Everything I was reading made is seem like the 700 was pretty much a requirement above 1" thick material.  I'll do some more video watching / reading.

My biggest issue with doing the domino first is doing rail and stiles.  I guess I could just make some mitered doors/etc, but I'd really like the ability to do some raised panels/cabinet doors.  I don't even mind doing mision style doors - I actually prefer them - but I can't seem to get decent results without a table. 

Then again - I can't see the table being used for much else aside from finger joints/dovetails - and I've been looking into the Leigh system for that.  From what I see of the leigh system - I 'think' I could probalby do mission style on the jig using a straight bit on the sliding dovetail portion.  Of course, I've tried doing the same thing with my of1400 and rails with material clamped to the side of my MFT and I don't get results I'm satisfied with - so maybe it wouldn't work. 

 

[waho6o9]

Domino hands down would be your best investment and perfect for drawer making.

A domino plate from Seneca woodworking is a wise investment as well.

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[hemlock]

+1 Domino.  You won't regret it.  Its a game changer.  If I could only have one Festool (and I have many) it would be the DF500.  I would also get the associated kit with the full set of bits and dominos.  Well worth it. 

 

[ChuckS]

All great advice to hear so far.  Sounds like the 500 would probalby suit my needs.  Everything I was reading made is seem like the 700 was pretty much a requirement above 1" thick material. 

The DF 500 can handle stock over 1" thick as you may use more than one row of Dominoes.

I've used both the 500 & 700 and while you can get a third party bits to use the 700 like a 500, it is a heavy machine and feels too bulky to work on smaller stock that the 500 is best suited for, if you are cutting a lot of mortises. If I ever need to build large doors as a one-time project, I would use a router and jig for the floating tenon joint.

Chuck

 

[ceddy]

You can't go wrong with either domino. I have the XL and its a pleasure to work with. I just got the CMS VL unit 2 weeks ago so I haven't gotten much time to use it but I'm liking everything about it. I mostly got it because I already had the router, table, etc.

I just got the TS 75 module to go in it and I'm really liking that as well. The down side with the CMS unit is that I find it takes a lot of time to set it up (but thats the price to pay for the mobility).

If you get a CMS unit I would get a 2nd, larger dust extractor or a dust deputy at the very least.

 

[ShadyMaple]

Thanks for all the response. 

I ended up finding a good deal on a used Domino 500 - with the Senneca plate, both fences, the domino assortment, all the cutters and about 7 bags of Dominos. 

I only had a chance to test it out and make a few test joints - but I have to say this thing is great! 

The only downside is my OCD - it came in older style Systainers and I'll have to upgrade to T-locs.  Can you buy the systainers with the labels on the front?  If not I guess it isn't the end of the world - but I'll definitely have to swap out the insides to a new T-Loc to match everything else I have. 

The good news is - I got such a deal I'm not really that far away from a router table.  I'm a little torn between shooting for the CMS or looking at something like the Kreg benchtop with a dedicated router.  I guess that will be my next research after I play around with my Domino. 

 

[ben_r_]

The only downside is my OCD - it came in older style Systainers and I'll have to upgrade to T-locs.  Can you buy the systainers with the labels on the front?  If not I guess it isn't the end of the world - but I'll definitely have to swap out the insides to a new T-Loc to match everything else I have.

You cant as far as I know as the serial number for the item is on two of the stickers. Now, Im not sure if the sticker sizes are the same from the old style Systainers vs the new, but I can tell you that the stickers on the new style Systainers can be pretty easily removed by heating them up with a hair dryer first. They are strong stickers and they come off fairly easily, dont tear and re-stick perfectly.

 

[Mr Jones]

I have the CMS table and use it for the saw as well. It's a great piece of kit and the accuracy from the router or saw is very good. The domino is a pretty indispensable piece of kit too so I wouldn't want to have to choose between them. When I'm making large doors (i.e. not cabinet) I usually make the joints in time honoured through mortice and tenons though, I find it doesn't take as long as you think it will and it's a nice job to do by hand. The XL domino must help if you're making to a price all day every day though.

To answer one of your other points about switching systainer inserts. The interiors of the old systainers don't fit in the new t-loc systainers.