Help with Windows Vista!

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
For the past few days, I've been struggling to get a new laptop to work with Windows Vista.  Every application on my computer has failed or caused numerous errors.  I've been going nuts, cursing every programmer who ever lived.

For those of you struggling with Windows Vista, this video might help.  It sure helped me!

Take a look...


Matthew

 

[Dave Rudy]

Everyone,
For the past few days, I've been struggling to get a new laptop to work with Windows Vista.  Every application on my computer has failed or caused numerous errors.  I've been going nuts, cursing every programmer who ever lived.

For those of you struggling with Windows Vista, this video might help.  It sure helped me!

Take a look...


Matthew

Matthew,

That is just perfect.  He speaks for so many of us he could probably be elected President of the US (I mean, look who else is running?)

It's why I went (back) to Mac and threw my PC's away -- a decision I have never regretted even for a second.  I had seen my very last blue screen until -- you guessed it -- I installed Windows XP on my MAC.  The only programs that hang up or cause problems on the Mac are Microsoft Word and Microsoft Entourage.

I loved the video, though.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Dave,
I'll tell you, until Vista I have not seriously considered switching to Macs.  For years, I always updated to the next Windows operating system.  I was always able to slowly transition my software to the new system.

But with Vista, Microsoft has gone over the edge, in my opinion.  They are all but forcing a sizable number of people to finally make the switch to Mac.

Matthew

 

[Overtime]

Now that was Good. Right up until he put the disk into the machine,  I was not expecting that  ;D

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
I wasn't going to post this, as I try to control my anger on the forum.  But I changed my mind.

Some additional notes:
If you buy a new laptop with Vista, confirm which of your software applications work before you leave the store!

Last night, I tried to return my new laptop to CompUSA.  They said they will take it back, but must charge me a 12% restocking fee.  After spending hours and hours trying to get this laptop to work, all a total waste of time, my only option was to literally throw away $160.  Well, I had one other option -- I could also buy all new software.  Gee, what a surprise!

Even if I bought new software, I'd still have issues because my scanner, printer, and external hard drive all don't work correctly with Vista.

I was so angry, I had to excuse myself and walk around the parking lot to calm down.  I decided to keep the laptop for now while I try to figure out what to do next.  Of course, I only have seven more days to return the laptop at all.

Those Macs are looking better by the hour!

Learn from my mistakes!  Don't buy a Vista computer unless you can confirm that your software will run on it!

Lucky for me, and the rest of us, the Festool Owners Group is housed on a Web server that runs on UNIX!!

Matthew

 

[TahoeTwoBears]

Good morning Matthew,

Did the techs try to help you by setting the compatibility of previous windows version for each program that you're trying to run? I was an early adopter and Vista certainly has teething problems, but I've been able to work around most of them.

Mike

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Did the techs try to help you by setting the compatibility of previous windows version for each program that you're trying to run? I was an early adopter and Vista certainly has teething problems, but I've been able to work around most of them.

Mike

That's funny!  The "techs" at CompUSA didn't even know what half my software was.  I was asking them about one application I use for editing photos and sound files, and they went onto the Web to check the company site.  I had already done that myself.

The problem is, the incompatibility issues are so numerous I just don't have the time to go through them all, one by one.

I do blame myself partly -- I didn't check to make sure that all those applications are compatible.  Of course, I don't believe the average computer buyer should be expected to do such a thorough check.

Matthew

 

[Dan Lyke]

I'm about to buy a laptop, and I'll be getting a version of Windows on it, probably Vista, because I need something to do basic Windows stuff on it, but the primary O/S on this thing will be Ubuntu Linux.

So here's a wacky question, although it will probably take per-application fiddling: Will those apps run under WINE or one of its derivatives, like the supported versions from CodeWeavers? My sweety runs QuickBooks that way, she gets a stable well supported operating system that she can figure out and administrate, and she gets QuickBooks.

Her laptop is dual-boot, she was able to install the Ubuntu Linux side by herself, but she had to ask me for help in installing the Windows XP side. Says something right there.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Dan,
Interesting post...I've heard that QuickBooks is compatible with Vista, but I'd really check it out first if I were you.

I have been considering Ubuntu myself for a little while, but I'm not sure about it.  Can you say more about your experiences with Ubuntu?

Regarding buying a laptop with Vista, my previous posts make it clear where I stand on the issue!  Avoid at all costs.  Well, unless you really like playing around with all your software and all the drivers for every piece of hardware connected to the computer!

Matthew

 

[Dan Lyke]

The basic Windows stuff I'm talking about is mostly development for Windows, so Vista shouldn't hold me back too much there. Okay, maybe the occasional Flight Simulator X session, because their helicopter model is a little different from the one in FlightGear, and I don't like pushing those reflexes down one simulation path.

On Ubuntu... well... I'm not a great sample because I've been running Linux since sometime in 1994. But about a year ago my sweety, a massage therapist and special ed instructional assistant who'd had an ancient Mac and a hand-me-down Windows 98 machine I'd given her, got a laptop with the proviso that she could have it if we could get the data off the hard drive. We did, and she said "I've had enough of Windows, what else can I run".

I said "I can install Debian Linux on it."

She said "No, it has to be something I can install, so that I'm not asking you for help all the time." (That's why she's my sweety)

I said "I've been hearing things about Ubuntu, let me burn you a disk".

She put it in the CD drive, booted off the CD, and the only guidance I had to give her was offering some suggestions in partitioning so that we could install Windows XP on the machine (a mistake, we should have installed Windows first, because it doesn't play well with others).

We put Windows on that machine because she runs QuickBooks for a few of our enterprises, but we discovered Crossover/Office (from the aforementioned CodeWeavers), and I think she's booted into Windows twice since that install. (She couldn't do the Windows install herself, she couldn't figure out the answers to some of the questions it asked on her own).

Ubuntu has largely just worked for her, and shortly thereafter I switched from Debian to Ubuntu on my various Linux computers.

If you're already running Open Source applications like Firefox, OpenOffice.org, GIMP and Inkscape, it'll be easier to make the switch. And we didn't get her favorite Windows solitaire game suite running under Crossover.

Wise people have said that all software sucks, it just sucks differently. Linux has its quirks, but I've found that I get along with it a lot better than I get along with the Mac (my primary machine these days, for work reasons) or Windows.

Ubuntu comes in a "Live" version, put the disk in, boot it, see if it detects all your hardware, use the various applications, if you like it then you can install it on your hard drive.

It's tough to get lower risk than that...

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Dan,
Thanks for the information.  Sounds like it's possible to give Ubuntu a test drive prior to fully switching over.  I like that!

Regarding "open source" applications -- I'm a big fan of what's been developed in the open source community.

For example...

I have completely uninstalled Microsoft Office and now run OpenOffice.  At first, I was a little hesitant, but I never have problems and I exchange files with people running Microsoft Office all the time.

By the way, the Festool Owners Group runs on Simple Machines Forum, which is open source!

Other open source applications I run include Irfanview, Gimp, Audacity, and probably others I'm not thinking of at the moment.

It's a big move switching from PC to Mac, or from Windows to Ubuntu (Linux).  But the fact that I am already relying on a lot of open source applications, and the fact that many of those applications run better on a Mac, and the maddening problems with Vista, all combine to give me a major push in that direction!

Matthew

 

[Dan Lyke]

Yeah, the major problem I have with using those apps on the Mac is that they're better integrated into the Unix way of doing things than the Mac way, and the keystrokes often don't change.

So on Windows or Linux in most apps I'm doing a Control-X to copy, on the Mac I'm doing Cmd-X, except for those that are really native X windows and Unix apps and use Control-X. And copy and paste on the Mac from some of those applications doesn't work as nicely as it does on Linux.

But if you're already using all of those applications, I think you'll fall right into Linux.

 

[tenbears]

Can't speak to your "Simple Machine Forum" pkg, but as for "Open Office" - and your image viewer/Gimp/Audacity, - One package iLife within the Mac OsX framework handles most all your basic Photo/Audio needs, photo editing and audio needs. For an office app.,  "iWork" runs circles around most basic office needs applications. If you really need the Entourage portion of Office well you have to submit to making Bill even richer. Haven't seen it yet but iWork08 has a brand new spreadsheet portion which reads and writes Excel files for cross platform compatibility.

I Won't run Windows and don't need the complexity of Linux. Everything else can be done with less oversight and way less IT needs onboard today's Apple hardware, operating system, and applications. I have set up several machines for others running Boot Camp to run Windows specific software when needed. All are running XP pro. Street word is steer clear of Vista unless you are just running a stock Vista Machine without excess third party applications and peripherals. There are many who may disagree, feel free but a few clicks on Google and the chatter is all basically the same. Major HEARTBURN.

Without major expense of retooling servers, you may have to stick to the Wintel world or Linux world but for the creative apps - MacOsX and associated tools are leading the industry. Out of the box, plug them in and within a few minutes you are up and running.

 

[Dave Rudy]

but for the creative apps - MacOsX and associated tools are leading the industry. Out of the box, plug them in and within a few minutes you are up and running.

This says it for me.  I started using Macs when they first came out (had an Apple 2c and 2e before that) and have always found the hardware and the OS light years ahead of Windows.  One of the things I remember is that in the first days of Mac you could plug one machine into another, or 3 or 6 using appletalk cables and BAM, a network.  AND IT WORKED!  No dedicated servers, no server software, no ten or twenty software switches that required a Microsoft certified guy to make laptops talk to desktops, etc.

Then I had to go to PCs for many years because of software requirements.  After my wife and college age kids got macs several years ago and I hit the wall on blue screen bingo, I threw my PC away (notwithstanding the software issues) and went back to Mac.  Boy was I happy!

You guys are way over my head on the technical side -- I'm a computer user, not a programmer.  But with Mac for my basic stuff and XP professional for several applications (Quick Books Pro -- the Mac version is not credible, and ACT contact management mainly) I get along just fine, day in and day out.  I have abandoned Entourage (the Microsoft Outlook-like Mac program) in favor of mac's Mail app (which comes with teh computer and works great!)  If I could find a reasonable substitute for Word and Excel I would because believe it or not it is only the Microsoft applications which EVER cause problems on the mac side.  But with the Mac OS, when they do cause problems they crash themselves and not the rest of the machine -- the OS just powers through in all but extremely rare circumstances.

Blue screens are now a thing of the past for me and I find my time much more productive using the computer than fixing it, patching it, tweaking it, etc.

I also run Mac OS and Windows XP Professional simultaneously, switching back and forth between two windows.  It takes a lot of memory to make it work, but it sure is handy to have two operating environments, access to all programs, etc, without having to reboot each time.  New version of parallels works well at sharing all periphererals, etc across the OS's.

The Vista rollout to me is just hte latest example of a user-hostile company philosophy in operation --

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Without major expense of retooling servers, you may have to stick to the Wintel world or Linux world but for the creative apps - MacOsX and associated tools are leading the industry. Out of the box, plug them in and within a few minutes you are up and running.

Good points.  I have slowly moved away from almost all Microsoft products in the past couple of years.  As I mentioned, I no longer use Microsoft Office at all.  For accessing the Web, I use the latest Mozilla application -- SeaMonkey, which has a browser and e-mail application all in one.

The more I hear lately, the more tempted I am to just make the switch to Macs.

As I said, Microsoft might have done Apple a huge favor with Vista.  I really think there must be millions of people out there giving Macs a serious look these days!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

If I could find a reasonable substitute for Word and Excel I would because believe it or not it is only the Microsoft applications which EVER cause problems on the mac side.

Dave,
I have the answer for you -- OpenOffice!!!!

I can't emphasize strongly enough that this application totally replaces Microsoft Office.  I completely uninstalled Microsoft Office after installing OpenOffice.  It's not a "reasonable substitute for Word and Excel" -- it's a natural replacement for them.

OpenOffice is an application suite:

• "Writer" for word processing
• "Calc" for spreadsheets
• "Impress" for presentations
• "Draw" for art

The whole OpenOffice suite is terrific.  The applications open and save Microsoft documents with no problems, and they even look similar to Microsoft products, so you don't have to re-learn everything.  Where there are functional differences, I have found the OpenOffice system better.  Another benefit to Writer is that you can export into PDF.

OpenOffice is open source.  That means it's free.  But even more than that, there's a friendly community forum where you can post questions and get answers.

I'm telling you, and everybody else, check it out!

Here's a link to the OpenOffice site ====>http://www.openoffice.org/index.html

You'd think I'm making money promoting this or something!  No, I'm just very enthusiastic about this application and would love to see more people drop Microsoft Office in favor of OpenOffice.

Matthew

 

[Dave Rudy]

thanks Matthew.  Only question is are documents created in Openoffice 100% readable by and compatible with Microsoft docs?  (incl formatting, etc?) i frequently have to pass docs ( esp Word) back and forth with others, making edits as we go.

Dave

 

[Dan Lyke]

Only question is are documents created in Openoffice 100% readable by and compatible with Microsoft docs?  (incl formatting, etc?) i frequently have to pass docs ( esp Word) back and forth with others, making edits as we go.

So far I've had no problems.

However, even though Microsoft has allegedly provided a plugin, through Novell, to read and write the new "docx" (and similar for spreadsheet, etc) files in Open Office, I haven't been able to get it to work, so I've had to ask the Microsoft users in my life to stick with .doc and .xls format.

The other cool thing about OO documents is that they're easily convertable to a couple of basic easily interpreted XML files, so Open Office is a fantastic path to moving documents from user manipulated into databases or other handy formats.

And I expect that, especially since Microsoft is pushing the new "*x" documents as "OfficeOpen" (note shameless attempt to piggyback on existing trademark...), soon some of the interop issues will get worked out. Until then just ask your Microsoft people to assume that you're not using the latest version from Microsoft and things should be fine.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

thanks Matthew.  Only question is are documents created in Openoffice 100% readable by and compatible with Microsoft docs?  (incl formatting, etc?) i frequently have to pass docs ( esp Word) back and forth with others, making edits as we go.

Dave

I write for a living, and use OpenOffice for all my work.  I send documents to editors using Microsoft Office products all the time.  I send documents in their final form, and I exchange documents where we are tracking edits.  I've never had anyone even notice the difference!

While using OpenOffice, just save your documents in Microsoft Word format for text, or Microsoft Excel for spreadsheets.  I configured OpenOffice to save to Microsoft formats by default -- I know the majority of users have not yet seen the light!!

The other cool thing about OO documents is that they're easily convertable to a couple of basic easily interpreted XML files, so Open Office is a fantastic path to moving documents from user manipulated into databases or other handy formats.

I haven't taken advantage of this feature.  However, I regularly use the "Export to PDF" feature.  From any OpenOffice file, you can really easily create PDF files.  There other nice features to OpenOffice that make using very pleasant.  Having the community of users, with a friendly online forum, also helps.

...soon some of the interop issues will get worked out. Until then just ask your Microsoft people to assume that you're not using the latest version from Microsoft and things should be fine.

I haven't had to do this.  I just save my OpenOffice documents in Microsoft Word or Microsoft Excel format, and no one knows the difference.

Matthew

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Matthew,

Sorry to hear of your problems with VISTA.  I can certainly "second" your experience and views.  After my PC running XP broke (software corruption due to ?? despite up to date Norton Anti-virus suite) and none of many efforts to revive it worked, I decided to buy a laptop PC with wireless.  All of the PCs being offered by CompUSA, Best Buy, and Dell were being offered only with Vista.  What a pain and nuisance - a lot more RAM and HD memory is needed to run it.  And the new Dell Inspiron 1505's HD failed only 3 monthss later, and getting it restored despite Dell shipping me a refurbished HD with an image copy of their basic Vista OS and other applications, literally took a couple of days - it would not go onto the internet despite what Dell's technicians instructed and tried.  The technicians from Earthlink (by telephone from India solved the problems, which required dumping/flushing the IPv4 and other files within Sys32 and reloading them.  However, I have not had any problem getting my Vista PC to synch up with my HP 6110 4-in-one printer.  I simply plugged the USB cord supplied by HP into a port on my Dell PC, and Vista automatically detected, correctly identified, and searched for and installed the proper drivers while I was connected to the internet.  That HP combo printer/scanner/fax/copier was purchased in January 2002.  So not all things about Vista are bad in my limited experience.  But Earthlink's Total Access does not work as quickly or with as full features as it did with XP.

My next PC will likely be a MAC.  I bought a desktop for my son last year since he is focused on visual arts and uses Adobe's Creative Suite.  His MAC was easier to setup - I was able to connect it wirelessly to my router and the internet with encryption in about 1 hour, and I know next to nothing about PCs and even less about MACs.  The in-machine instructions and steps were much simpler than WinTel machines.  His MAC has been completely reliable and completely stable in the year he has had it.

Now... if I only could get him interested in woodworking and learning how to create furniture drawings for me!

Dave R.