herring bone pattern

[Alan m]

this is a side question from my other thread but a different issue and thought the 2 would be better seperated
i have been asked to make a door for a kitchen press. they want a routed door with a 40mm stile width and a panel set in 1/4"back from the front. the first problem is them want mft vennered and painted for the grain, not sepeate stiles and rails one piece.
the second and more dificult is they want a herring bone pattern routered into the face of the panel. they want around a 2x 1 " rectangle at 45degree angle with the herringbone.
i will probable route the herring bone onto a 1/4"piece and rebate that into the back of the front piece with a square cutout in it.

how do you think i should make the herring bone pattern. the problem is that you need a groove for 2"then a gap for 1"and a 1"groove then a2"gap etc. a router on a rail will help keep them straight but setting stops every 2"or so would wreck you head.
i was thinking of using the lr 32 system and mounting the router to that. and change the 2"x 1" to 64mm x 32mm.
do you think this would work as it would give me a stop where i need it. the only trouble is keeping track of where i should start and stop

anyone have any ideas or jig ideas short of using a cnc

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Alan,

No disrespect intended, but this detailed stuff seems out of your skill set to be taking on for what seems like a picky client so soon. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable having plenty of time to practice on inexpensive material under no time constraint so you have it down pat and can show samples right away?

 

[BobKovacs]

I know you said "short of CNC", but that sounds like a job that's just screaming for CNC

 

[Kevin Stricker]

My first thought that comes to mind is you better be able to draw out what you plan to make.  Your description leaves me scratching my head.

For the herringbone, why do you want to route it out of MDF?  Why not just apply the pattern using appropriate sized pieces "inlayed" into a panel in the door.  You could even use MDF if you so choose, but I would use Poplar.  Just mill up the stock, route the appropriate profile into the pieces, and cut to size.  Now just draw out your pattern on the panel, then go to work with glue and a pinner.

Make sense?

(edit: just read your other post, I thought you were talking about a man door not a bunch of cabinet doors.  If you have a bunch to do you need to make a template.  Sounds like a PIA.

 

[Alan m]

Alan,

No disrespect intended, but this detailed stuff seems out of your skill set to be taking on for what seems like a picky client so soon. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable having plenty of time to practice on inexpensive material under no time constraint so you have it down pat and can show samples right away?

first of all ken.
i have spent 4 years in letterfrack furniture coolage using some of the best machines in the industry, cnc, edgebanders,beamsaws, industrial panel saws, spindle moulders, wide belt sanders.

i dont see how i can take your comment any other way than disrespectfully.
i never questioned your skill set when you talk about very detailed things .
i may not be doing all the high end stuff now because our economy is up the river with no paddle. i am only doing carpentry and an odd cabinetry job here and there to pay for the tools and to build up a reputation. i might not post much about what i am doing but that is because it is not very exicting.
as soon as a job i was trained to do came alllong you are compalining and making comments about my skill set that you dont know any thing about.

ther is major no time constraint on this (i have 2 months to do the samples) they cant take very long to do. also these are good clients of mine and dont want to loose them.
i would love to use a cnc but dont have easy or cheap axcess to one .
they want mdf so that it is stable and can be painted.
they dont want any thing inlaid into the groove just a v groove or a small cove.

thanks for answering. i will try to get a pic done but my cad package is playing up

 

[AlexThePalex]

I know you said "short of CNC", but that sounds like a job that's just screaming for CNC

I agree with this. You're setting yourself up for an extremely difficult job Alan. Skill aside, this would be a task challenging to any skilled woodworker. And it would be very time consuming. You didn't state the size of your door, but the bigger the panel, the more time it will take and when you consider your hourly wage into this, the panel might become very expensive to make. I think a CNC machine might be able to do this job cheaper.

 

[jmbfestool]

When I worked for a company we had some panels made specific for the job but the company I worked for didnt have a CNC so they cut the panels and just sent the panels to a company who had CNC but we still made rest and fitted the panels but the client had no idea it was done by another company.  

I would just source out the bits which would be hard and time consuming manually to some one who has a CNC.    You can still claim you did it!   Well you kinda did you designed it and drew everything up and made some off it so clients will be happy as you have given them a good job all be it not all of it was done by you but who cares!

Dont listen to little Kenny  [tongue]   cus we are across the pond he thinks we have no skill  [tongue]   I think your talented Alan!  [big grin]

JMB

 

[Ken Nagrod]

JMB,

You're getting just 2 sarcastic ha ha's for that.  [tongue]

 

[tiralie]

anyone have any ideas or jig ideas short of using a cnc

Alan:
I am not sure I can help, but a picture or drawing would help here.
I have read this post a couple times, and I find myself making a lot of assumptions about what you are trying to achieve.
Even a paper napkin, back of the envelope sketch with some dimensions would clarify this.
Tim

 

[awdriven]

When you say herringbone it makes me think that there are going to be closely spaced parallel grooves in the design. It could really show any tiny inaccuracy and then you'd have to throw out the workpiece and start over.

What's to be learned by just planing it safe all the time though?

 

[ajones]

this is a side question from my other thread but a different issue and thought the 2 would be better seperated
i have been asked to make a door for a kitchen press. they want a routed door with a 40mm stile width and a panel set in 1/4"back from the front. the first problem is them want mft vennered and painted for the grain, not sepeate stiles and rails one piece.
the second and more dificult is they want a herring bone pattern routered into the face of the panel. they want around a 2x 1 " rectangle at 45degree angle with the herringbone.
i will probable route the herring bone onto a 1/4"piece and rebate that into the back of the front piece with a square cutout in it.

how do you think i should make the herring bone pattern. the problem is that you need a groove for 2"then a gap for 1"and a 1"groove then a2"gap etc. a router on a rail will help keep them straight but setting stops every 2"or so would wreck you head.
i was thinking of using the lr 32 system and mounting the router to that. and change the 2"x 1" to 64mm x 32mm.
do you think this would work as it would give me a stop where i need it. the only trouble is keeping track of where i should start and stop

anyone have any ideas or jig ideas short of using a cnc

Could you lay strips of timber on a thinner panel for the same affect? just lots of cutting...

 

[jonny round boy]

Ithink this is what Alan is looking to achieve:

[attachimg=1]

If this is correct, I see a way of doing it with a router & a jig, but it would very, very time consuming (and even more tedious).

The only way to do it really would be a CNC. It may not be as expensive as you think - you wouldn't need to do each panel individually, just have the CNC place do full sheets, however many you'll need to make all the panels from.

There's a place near me, Design & Display, who do patterned CNC cut sheet material. You can see from the prices that they're not massively expensive. Sure, a custom design would cost more, but the design would be very quick to input into the CNC so you shouldn't have too much of an artwork charge. Obviously they would be no good for you due to the distance, but I'm sure there must be similar company in Ireland.

Even at £200 a sheet, if you can get 10 doors out of a sheet that's only £20/door (and I didn't even take my socks off to work that out!)...

 

[ajones]

so easy to do just cut strips of timber/mdf cut to length finish edges on router table,then glue to back board letting the herring bone pattern run over the outside edges and then cut off waste when glue has dried job jobed..

 

[Alan m]

thanks jrb for the pic. i hadnt got around to drawing it and poasting as my cad is acting up and my camera aint here.

that is what i want to do.

i dont think glueing a series of small blocks will work for such a small door (just standard kitchen doors). i thunk the weight would add up fast.
i have considered the cnc option but the nearest reliable one is maybe an hour away.
i was thinking of dominoing , spline jointing some thicker pieces together.

i was hopeing that some one would have tackled something similar in the past and might have a jig or idea for one that would be fairly fast.
i dont mind spending a few pound of a few days making a jig as i will always have it. i have a few half ideas on the jig but havnt tried them yet.

if i come up with anything i will post it

i know this costomer is demanding but there is no tight dedline .  i know it would be cheaper to do the cncing but i would like to be able to do a few doors like this if i ever needed to.

 

[CABMEISTER]

so easy to do just cut strips of timber/mdf cut to length finish edges on router table,then glue to back board letting the herring bone pattern run over the outside edges and then cut off waste when glue has dried job jobed..

Actualy not a bad idea . Sort of like a herringbone veneer. 1/8" baker panel + 1/8" veneer + Painted makes sence . Flat surface and vac bag way to go , or press of some discription.

 

[Tim Morris]

I was thinking a v groove bit, guide bushing and the MFS system. I just can't think of a fast and accurate way of indexing the jig from block to block. This method would be very time consuming as well. [unsure] As far as construction a 3/4" stile and rail with a 1/2" panel you could recess it 1/4", like the customer requested, rout your detail up to 1/4" deep, back cut the panel and have it come out flush on the back (inside). That would yield your panel, decorated, in one piece ready for glue up.

 

[ajones]

so easy to do just cut strips of timber/mdf cut to length finish edges on router table,then glue to back board letting the herring bone pattern run over the outside edges and then cut off waste when glue has dried job jobed..

Actually not a bad idea . Sort of like a herringbone veneer. 1/8" baker panel + 1/8" veneer + Painted makes sense . Flat surface and vac bag way to go , or press of some description.

Thanks Cabmeister. I do think is the easyest and fastest way.keep it simple, and you could populate doors of any size without any jig issues, because I think it could not be done with one jig.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Good to see great minds thinking alike.  [wink]