HK/HKC 55 in Lieu of Kapex?

[onocoffee]

Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

I've got an old 10" Ryobi miter saw that I've had for well over 20 years. Used it for the random pine 2x4 work that the occasional homeowner rough carpentry might do. In modern times, I have it set up but almost never use it - not necessarily because I don't trust it, but more because I rarely have a need to use it. Meaning that replacing it with a Kapex is way down on the list of priorities.

A woodworking friend and I were talking today about the HK 55. He's got one that he's used for various projects and was telling me how it works with the FSK track - and it made me wonder: just how suitable would the HK/HKC 55 with FSK rail be for miter cuts instead of a Kapex. I could put together a kit for considerably less than the Kapex 60.

Thanks!

 

[luvmytoolz]

Granted I use a HK85 with the FSK rail so it's a much more cumbersome beast than the 55, but the nature of using the FSK track to me means that I may not got perfectly repeatable results every time, or even just perfect results anytime really.

With the Kapex I can set a stop and just chop away knowing every single cut will be perfect and identical. With the FSK I need to really focus on keeping the rail aligned and pushed right up to help reduce or stop any adverse movement.

For "z" frames for gates or more agricultural projects I'd be happy to use the FSK, for skirts, archs, picture frames, squaring chopping boards, etc, etc, I wouldn't use anything but the Kapex.

I do keep a couple older saws specifically for cutting pine and OB framing, etc, where dead accuracy is far less important, and the HK85/FSK get most use docking beams, treads, etc.

 

[woodferret]

I've been in a similar conundrum. Miter saw isn't used that much and is replaceable by most other tools. I tend to only use it for trim work where I need to do a lot of repetitive-sneak-angle cuts. If sneak is 1/8th (like luv said construction jobs) and it's a tool-to-the-wood job, then HKC sounds fine. I've so far settled on getting a small JP import Makita miter saw and potentially the HKC later if I end up doing more farm & yard projects. I guess the question you need to ask yourself is, do you envision ever needing to do repetitive-sneak-angle 12" precision cross cuts? (or standing trim for the KS120)?

edit: another plus side I'm having with the HKC is that I too only have a TS55. Having a cordless saw that I can use with cheap rails for sheet breakdown outside would be beneficial.

 

[luvmytoolz]

edit: another plus side I'm having with the HKC is that I too only have a TS55. Having a cordless saw that I can use with cheap rails for sheet breakdown outside would be beneficial.

I've been holding off buying a cordless for ages as I'm desperately hoping Festool release a TSC60K!

 

[woodferret]

Heh, me hoping for a HKC60 is also the reason I don't have the 55 yet

 

[peter halle]

In my world they are two different animals. A miter saw originally used for cutting trim precisely can be used for making framing cuts at a precision not usually required, but basically a circular saw can not effectively and reliably be used for cutting trim precisely. Yes the guide rails can get you closer and can effectively be used often times for miters on flat stock primarily for exterior work where the same precision is not normally expected as with interior trim. Each has their own place in my world.

Peter

 

[ChuckM]

+1. Just because one tool can do the job of another with some kind of hack, it doesn't mean the two are the same. Something has to give if you are having one but not the other.

I can do almost everything on my table saw that my Kapex can do -- with jigs and/or some elaborate setups. But that'd be totally inefficient for me, and so I've used the miter saw in 70 to 80% of my projects (the table saw close to 100%).

Btw, unless portability and budget keep it from happening, I'd recommend the Kapex REB.

 

[onocoffee]

Btw, unless portability and budget keep it from happening, I'd recommend the Kapex REB.

Based on what I've read on the FOG, I concur. It will only be an REB (unless I ever come across a crazy deal, like the 120 EB for $300, I saw last year).

Thanks all, your comments help!

 

[WillettBarrel]

If I were to replace the miter saw, I might suggest a MFT setup before the FSK. I think the capability set is more comparable as far as angles, repeatability, etc. You can still use the HK on standard track, so you wouldn't necessarily need the TS 55/60/75, just the MFT 3 kit. The FSK could still be very handy for framing or other rough cuts.

That's said, I have used my HKC55 with an FSK 250 to make precise mitered cuts for a furniture piece. It worked well. Using the clamp on the front of the track and adding a SYS MFT (or saw horse) to hold the other end of the work peice added the stability needed to make the cuts as precise as the marking tools. Check the FSK angle stop periodically, as it does slip every now and then. Add a higher tooth blade for a finish quality cut, of course. But yes, the HK offers the capability set quite nicely, as long as you're willing to take significantly more time setting up each cut when you do precision work. I don't think the FSK would be good for crown; there you really need the miter saw or at least the MFT setup.

 

[Vondawg]

My percentages with the use of the Kapex (or ?) and the table saw, are on par with @ChuckM
Couldn’t do without a SCMS just too useful with trim and such as @peter halle stated

 

[woodferret]

Also, get the pistol grip clamp for the rails. It makes clamping relatively narrow stock easier and you can just use your TS55 most of the time to cut to line that way. It's the repetitiveness that the HKC rail stops would help, but for a few cuts here and there this works. I used it that way for trimming flooring.

The only annoyance of it is that the plunge mechanism does mean you're closer to the stock at start and can't lead-in. It may show up a tiny bit in cut quality.

 

[SoonerFan]

Heh, me hoping for a HKC60 is also the reason I don't have the 55 yet

An HKC60 along with a corded CTSYS dust extractor are two Festools, that if introduced (re-reintroduced) I would buy immediately. I was so excited when the corded CTSYS showed up on the Festool USA website a while back. But as discussed in another thread, that ended up being an error.

 

[johnmpf]

I found a corded CTSYS in Racine WI at an Ace that is going out of business. It was brand new and selling for under $300. I already had one so I did not buy it.

 

[smorgasbord]

I've been holding off buying a cordless for ages as I'm desperately hoping Festool release a TSC60K!

That the 100-year tools include both the TS60 and the TSC55 in blue systainers tells me they're not coming out with a new cordless track saw any time soon. Same for the DF500, unfortunately.

 

[ear3]

Can't speak for the HK, but the HKC is more like a toy saw when it comes to power, and should not under any circumstances be considered as a substitute for a mitre saw, unless you will be doing 2x4 construction exclusively. At this point I only use mine when I go to the lumber yard and have to cut down boards to fit in the car, or very rarely when I'm working outside the shop and know that I will be dealing solely with cross-cuts of construction timber or hardwood under 1".

 

[lwoirhaye]

The trick track on the HK is not very useful to me as a cabinet/furniture guy. I thought I could take it on installs or whatever and make any cut I wanted with little setup for miter saw type cuts but unless you're just trimming the end off a board with it the best way to use it is by suporting the boards similar to how you would on a large miter saw stand. If you don't support and/or clamp the two halves of a long board so it can't the blade tends to get pinched in the kerf and the saw can kick back. You can use an MFT and supports or whatever if you have room for a permanent setup but whatever you do takes time to set up and weight will be a factor if you're taking it places.

I haven't had the space for a miter saw setup in my shop for awhile so precision cuts like that are done on my Felder while many larger panel cuts are made using track saws. I really haven't got enough space for all stuff I have in there and go outside for many cuts, set up a track saw or my Metabo Secanta sliding carriage portable table saw and get it done. It's quicker for me than rearranging things to use the Felder for different types of cuts a lot of the time.

I actually just got a funky new non-sliding miter saw for taking places for some quick cuts and to move around to make longer cuts easily, but it only has an 8.5" blade. It is compact and light though.

I actually prefer the non plunge cut of the HK55 to the "proper" saws. Those are better for dust extraction though so if I need that indoors I can use a plunge saw instead. The HK saws have plunge springs if you want to make plunge cuts like with a TS55. The track keeps the guard up and out of the way, but it is still like that when you aren't cutting. There are a few other saws besides the Mafell ones that do what the HK saws do, more or less. I have a Metabo cordless one.