Honda EU22i inverter generator with Festool power tools

[Tomsim]

Hi all,

I don't know if this is the right place to post, but it's for mobile use so this looks like most appropriate..

I will soon need to use my tools off 230v grid, and I don't know if Honda eu22i (eu2200 in the US) would be appropriate to use with Festool tools. My main concern is electronics in the Festool powertools.
I'm aware of generator power limitations of 1.8kw of continuous power. I know that at best I can use Kapex ks60 with Midi (BT) at lowest speed, or OF1400 with Midi on lowest and very gentle passes not to load the router a lot.
Since all my tools are soft-start, there shouldn't be problems with startup current.

I'd use it with kapex ks60, domino xl, of1400, ro90, ets ec 150/5, TCL6 charger.... I'll use it for other things also, but Festool power tools are what concerns me. I wouldn't like to damage the tools.

New Festool PowerStation looks great and it's very portable, especially with my other systainers and CT.
But I have 3 reasons why i'd prefer Honda eu22.
First, price... around 3000eur... while Honda is 1450eur. Gasoline is more expensive than charging Powerstation, but i'll not use it that often.
Second, battery life considering the years. I'll need remote power max 30 times a year. In 5 years that is 150 uses. I assume batteries will loose capacity with time even without usage, even newer Li-Ion technology. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Also, i think re-sell value of PowerStation will be very low after 5 years.
Third, there will be times when 1.5Wh of PowerStation will not be enough. I'll use this on my country side, so there will be need for "domestic" use of power also.

If someone has experience with Honda eu22 (or older eu20) with Festool power tools, I'd be happy to hear some information.
I'm still considering the PowerStation, and maybe cheaper Chinese inverter for rare occasions when i need more  (longer) capacity.
But Honda EU22 is my preferred choice for now.

Thank you

 

[woodwise]

Tomsim,

The Honda EU produced a near perfect sine wave output. It is a great generator for sensitive electronics. They actually work well with conventional power tools also. The inrush current from large inductive loads puts a huge strain on the capacitors in the inverter which I would think could lead to pre-mature failure. That being said, I see people abusing these little generators and they hold up remarkably well.
A soft start circuit will certainly reduce inrush current and make your generator much happier.

I have used the Domino, TS55 and CT with no issues on a Honda and Yamaha inverter generator.

Good luck with your project.

 

[kevinculle]

I have used my Honda EU2000i (vintage 2000) to power my CT26 and Kapex without problems.

 

[pixelated]

I ran my HK with a standard generator for a short time, no issues.

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

Thank you for making me think about this. We need a generator for emergency backup. A Honda of that size and power would really fill the bill, and the EU models are very quiet.

 

[Bob D.]

It would double the price but I believe the Honda and some other
inverter generators can be rigged in parallel to provide more power.

Honda also makes a 3000 and a 7000 watt version.

 

[DeformedTree]

the Honda's are very nice. The issue with them is they only make the small ones in 120VAC.  To get 120/240VAC you need to go to a very large one (expensive/heavy).  The parallel function is still just 120V, it just makes sure the frequency syncs.

This as a major oversight, as it basically eliminates them being handy during power outages (they work, just not handy).

 

[Bob D.]

Not handy if you need 240V, but otherwise they fit the needs of many people I would think.

Keeping the fridge and/or freezer cold to save all the food would be my number one priority if I only had a small generator. And an inverter generator may be necessary for newer appliances that have VFD motors.

The EU700iS does have 240V 22A(continuous) output but as you said it is more expensive with a MSRP of $5059.00 but I found a couple places online selling it for ~$4500.

 

[DeformedTree]

yeah, the issue isn't really the need for 240V, it is that you can't just plug it into a generator plug on the side of your house and be good to go.  You will have to pull out fridges and run cords.  So thus my comment of not being very handy. It does the job, but if it was a split phase, you could plug it in and be good.  A much better answer than large heavy noisy non inverter generators. Which are cheap, but have a lot of downsides. Many homes have a generator plug on them (in places with frequent power outages).

The Honda is 47lb and 20x11x17" roughly.  The typical cheap harbor freight generator (which might make more power) is 100lb and 23 x 19 x 19" roughly. Over twice the weight and volume.

 

[Bob D.]

"yeah, the issue isn't really the need for 240V, it is that you can't just plug it into a generator plug on the side of your house and be good to go. "

You CAN do exactly that, but not with a 120V generator. It's not free but it is possible and it is what I do whenever I need my generator here at home. Been using it for 10 years with no problems.

It cost me $600 for the GenerLink. It mounts behind you electric meter. You plug your generator into the proprietary outlet on the GenerLink using the cord they supply with the unit, and the other end goes to your generator. From there I can power anything in my house with no other electrical modifications, no back-feeding through a dryer outlet or flipping breakers or using a transfer switch. I can send power to any circuit in my house within the limit of my 10KW generator.

 

[DeformedTree]

not following what you are saying at all.

I'm not recommending anyone backfeed, etc.  I'm just saying anyone who has a proper generator connection (transfer switch, pop out box, interlock plate) on their home is out of luck. The only way they are going to be ok with a 120V generator is is they wired their house up with everything they need in an outage to be all on the same side, thus if they use a 120V generator, they just don't power the other hot.  That would take advance thought/planning.  Everyone with a proper/legal generator connection is going to be wired for split phase, you could absolutely wire up a cord that will only power one of the 120V legs, and run it, but you might not get power to the plugs you need (fridge is on one hot, freezer is on the other hot). Plus if the person where to ever get a 120/240 generator, the loads would be unbalanced since they would have wired it up with fridge, freezer, etc all on one side.

I've seen other people trying to solve this very issue by using transformers. Which is an option. But that's more money, more etc.

 

[Bob D.]

Yes, I agree, not much can be done with only 120V.

I misunderstood you I guess.

Sorry.

 

[DeformedTree]

Yes, I agree, not much can be done with only 120V.

I misunderstood you I guess.

Sorry.

no problem, I figured there was a confusion in there.

I'm guessing Honda is using a simple switch module, so they can only do one output or some other issue internally which prevents them from a fairly simple change. If this is the case, it really seams like an oversight.  Given the market size of split phase countries (US, Canada, Japan), you would think they would have this covered.  In other markets people might even wish they could get these with 400Y/230 or 208Y/120 output

You don't have to look hard to find people trying to solve this issue, the market is clearly there.

 

[Tomsim]

Thank you all for your answers. Im still slightly considering the PowerStation… I’ll have to make a decision this days…
But probably iz will be honda eu22

 

[kevinculle]

I have successfully used my EU2000i to weather power outages including the Great Northeast Blackout of 2003.  The formula is simple and if you are diligent and careful there is no undue risk.  First you install a 20A direct feed outdoor outlet tied to the leg of your breaker panel with most of your critical loads; think furnace, refrigerator, sump pump, etc.  If there are critical loads on the opposite leg of the breaker panel swap them with other non-critical loads.  When the power goes down the following process is followed rigorously:

1. Wait 30 minutes because the vast majority of outages are shorter than this and no action is required.
2. Throw the main breaker OFF and all of the individual breakers OFF.
3. Connect the generator to the outdoor outlet with a 12AWG "widowmaker" (extension cord with two male plugs) always with the generator OFF and the outdoor outlet breaker OFF.
4. Start the generator and turn the ECO switch off
5. At the breaker panel throw the breaker for the outdoor generator outlet ON and switch ONLY the critical load breakers ON one at a time.  If you have two critical loads that together exceed the generator capacity switch them on alternately.  Once the refrigerator and furnace cycle off turn the generator ECO switch ON to conserve fuel.
6. When power is restored throw all of the individual breakers OFF, turn off the generator, disconnect the "widowmaker" cord from the outdoor outlet and generator, stow the generator, then turn the main breaker back ON and all the individual breakers back ON.

In 20+ years  I have probably used the generator this way 3 or 4 times successfully and without incident.

 

[Bertotti]

I do not know about the eu2221,2200, I do have an em5000sx. I plugged my ts55 into it and it would not turn on. So I thought I did something to it and sent it in to repair. They could find nothing wrong with it. I got it back and it still wouldn't work. Turns out it was my fault. This model has the power saving mode and the ts55 didn't draw enough to trigger the Gen to ramp up speed. I can only guess it has something to do with the soft start. So if the one you are looking at has such a feature be aware you may have to have it switched to the standard running mode for your track saw or other soft starts/low inrush items to work properly. FYI otherwise the Honda always just works. Only after a long span of not running does it take more than one pull to start. It has tun 24/7 for a week during power outages here. The very frigid winter in the Dakota's with no issues, summer on a farm all day, in the middle of summer, with no issues. I missed a sale on the 2200 and I seriously regret it! I would have loved to have a more portable unit to move around for small tasks. The 5000 is a bit big to just move around off the hard surfaces which is most of what I do.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

In terms of using tools on a generator, I carry a Honda EU3000is Handi in my van and use it regularly, since many older homes in my service area don't have outlets on the outside of the home, or if they do it's a single outlet, on the back of the house, on a 15A breaker.

The EU3000 does a great job keeping up with my tools, the only tool that has an issue is my ERIKA 70, which is rated at 2,250 watts. For the ERIKA, I need to make sure the generator is not set to "Eco", and I need to hold down the start button for an extra second or two to make sure it gets up to speed.

I used to run the business out of a mini-storage unit, and used a pair of EU3000 generators linked together, which gave me a full 30 amps of 120V power.

For the EU22i, it will have less available power than a EU3000, but I wonder if there is still an option to link generators? That way, you can just run the one if you're drawing a low load, but have the option to add a second unit should you find you need more power....