how are these cabinet doors made?

[Packard]

These cabinet doors have veneer over MDF.  Is the outer frame just molding?  Applied like a picture frame?  It would seem that it would have to be because you need the flush mount on the inside for the cup hinges to work.
https://superiorcabinets.ca/trends/will-the-real-slim-shaker-please-stand-up/

 

[ChuckM]

"Here are some technical details on our Wood Skinny Shaker door, called the Eryn Door.

    7/8” overall door thickness
    3/4” solid wood rail
    3/4” veneer panel with particle core
    1/16” outside round over on edges

If wood isn’t your thing, the Slim Shaker Door also comes in MDF, which is called Darby in MDF."

Solid wood rails glued and nailed together. The rails are probably grooved (or rebated?) to accept the panel.

 

[Packard]

I saw the nail holes.  I would guess they were to bind the corners while the glue dried and the assembled frame would be glued to the panel afterward. 

When I started out in the picture framing business that is how I joined the frames.  Later I got an underpinned, but that would be quite unsightly when viewed from the rear.

A small profile like that would have just a single underpin fastener, but it would not look "finished".

The frame below has three underpinning fasteners. 

 

[tjbnwi]

Applied corner molding, pinned, glue or wood welded.

Tom

 

[Packard]

They are calling it a "narrow shaker".  I still have my picture framing miter saw.  This would be a very fast and easy way to build doors for me--for anyone actually although the framing saw would make it faster and easier. 

I am refacing cabinets and I might go this route.  I would have to cut my own molding, but an easy thing on the table saw. 

 

[morts10n]

I installed an entire house with this door style. Installing pulls now. Glad I have the True Precision jig with "shaker screws" that keep jig square to panel

 

[mino]

From the description, these -as pictured- are really "decorative frame" doors much more than shaker style. At best these can be called fake-shaker.

Shaker doors are designed to have a structural frame which allows the board to be thin and light and it can also be made free-floating so can be made from wood. With a structural board, the board must be from MDF/PB as otherwise its movement would mess up the framing glueup.

Usin 3/4" MDF or PB, they would be heavy and have all the issues (and advantages) of frameless MDF/particle board doors with just the edge banding replaced by a decorative frame.

In a way, it is not a bad idea though. It turns a weak point of particle boards - edges - into an "advantage" by making it decorative and allowing making this in home setting too. No expensive Conturo needed!

On the other hand. The main price of structural boards -weight- makes me want to avoid that specific design.

===

What I am now thinking though is to try to do the same concept with a thinner laminated board (say 1/2").
Make the frame semi-structural by using silicon-based glue style connection with the laminate (holds like crazy to a laminate) and instead of edge-banding use wooden frame that will not be edge-jointed but will still support the vertical and horizontal bending of the particle board.
May not be possible to use Euro-hinges, but that can be sorted with some ingenuity IMO. Already got an idea.

Such a door can potentially have extremely low material costs (particle MDF + very little wood), be easy to make with basic tools, and yet be pretty mechanically strong and reasonably light as well.

I think I will make these for a test for our upcomming shop kitchen.
Thanks for the idea!

 

[Packard]

I was going to use 3/4" plywood in place of the MDF.  I think I will get sufficient bonding between the edges of the plywood and the face of the banding. 

The problem with using 1/2" thick plywood would be the mounting of the concealed hinges.  It calls for a cup of 13mm deep.  If your fostner bit has a point, it will protrude.

13mm = 0.511811"

1/2" plywood = 15/32" = 0.46875"

So unless you glue a block of wood to the rear this will not work.  And if you do glue a block, it will not close correctly.  I think you will have to go with 3/4" ply.

 

[mino]

I was going to use 3/4" plywood in place of the MDF.  I think I will get sufficient bonding between the edges of the plywood and the face of the banding. 

The problem with using 1/2" thick plywood would be the mounting of the concealed hinges.  It calls for a cup of 13mm deep.  If your fostner bit has a point, it will protrude.

13mm = 0.511811"

1/2" plywood = 15/32" = 0.46875"

So unless you glue a block of wood to the rear this will not work.  And if you do glue a block, it will not close correctly.  I think you will have to go with 3/4" ply.

Not expect to use ply. The idea is to reduce cost on both time and material to the bone yet get a nice and functional thing out. So white laminated PB it is with no surface treatment on it.

The wooden framing would be about 20mm, 2mm inset board into it, giving about 18mm (6 wood + 12 board) for the hinges. That should give me a door with the weight of a 12mm PB but the torsion strength close to a 20mm wooden mini-frame. In theory at least ...

Also thinking of 10mm PB board possibly. May be better as the wood backing can be 8mm, making it more stable there.

First sketch is initial, assuming 12mm PB with 20mm frames and 2mm inset.

Second is probably better, assuming 10mm PB and 19mm wooden framing/lips. That would allow to use door stepper oak which is usually 20mm advertised and is a great source of A/A small-piece well-dried oak over here.

Will see.

 

[Packard]

I toyed with the idea of making special moldings for the frame.  But all of the sudden this became as busy as making regular shaker doors.  The video I watched showed simple mitered strips being applied.  It becomes a very simple project.

 

[mino]

I toyed with the idea of making special moldings for the frame.  But all of the sudden this became as busy as making regular shaker doors.  The video I watched showed simple mitered strips being applied.  It becomes a very simple project.

Something along. IMO the whole idea is to avoid joinery complexity by having the board structural.

The way I want to try it is with simple saw-cut rebbates to create a "custom but simple" molding and just gluing the frame to the board. Mittered ends as well.

I expect to use silicon-based sticky glue. That will allow the wood to still move a bit and allows to paint the frame pieces separately, glue only later as that stick to a lacquered piece just fine.

Will post here a couple months down the line, what type of a mess got produced eventually. So far, I am liking the idea.
[big grin]

 

[Packard]

I watched this video.  It looks too simple to mess with. 

I am doing white painted uppers and oak grained lowers.

If I go this route, the biggest decision will be how to handle the drawer faces.  Simple slab, or a slab with the perimeter strips?

P.S.:  I have one band clamp.  I almost never use it, so it would be nice to make use of it.

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=74278]Packard[/member]

The Blum 107º concealed hinge cup depth is 11.5mm. They do not come with Blumotion built into the cup, but it can be added.

Tom

 

[Packard]

I have a Blum drilling jig.  It came pre-set from the factory.  I would have to look it over to see if it is adjustable for depth.

It looks like I could add some washers.  I would have to check.  But I am probably not going to go that route.

 

[Packard]

Here is some additional data from another cabinet maker.  The width of the micro frame is 25mm (0.984252") vs. 95mm (3.74016").
https://www.handmadekitchens.co.uk/blog/glossary/shaker-kitchen-doors-and-flat-kitchen-doors/

Micro shaker

Our standard shaker doors are constructed with a 95mm thick frame. If you’re looking for a modern design, but still fancy the shaker look, then why not go for our micro shaker doors, with a thin 25mm frame around the recess – all the principles of shaker design but with a subtly modern twist.

Also from this cabinet maker: https://superiorcabinets.ca/trends/slim-shaker-cabinets-are-not-a-trend/

Slim Shaker in Wood [The Eryn Door]

    Thicker Door:  7/8” overall door thickness, whereas most cabinet doors are 3/4” thick.
    Reveal:  Has a 1/8” recessed depth panel.
    Natural Only with Black Walnut:  The Eryn Slim Shaker is only available in a Natural Finish with Black Walnut Wood. For other available wood species, a stain will need to be selected.
    Not Available in Hickory:  The Eryn Slim Shaker is not available in Hickory Wood.
    Not Available in Rustic Wood:  Due to the construction on this door, rustic is not available. This is because the center panel is made of wood veneer and not solid wood.

Slim Shaker in One Piece MDF [The Darby Door]

    Reveal:  Has a 1/16” depth recess.
    Made of One Piece:  This is fabricated on a CNC router, great for environments with low humidity and dramatic seasonal changes, as cracking at door joints due to seasonal changes will not occur.

This would require that I obtain 1" thick stock, to get the 7/8" thickness x 25mm width.

 

[Packard]

I do like this drawer front over a slab: