How can people not shop at Amazon?

[Klemm]

Have any of you ever thought about how AMAZON handles the Cost of the returned or lost item?
Talk to some of their suppliers and ask them about the word "backcharge". . .  to find out who actually takes the hit.

As consumers, we ultimately reap what we sow.

Hans

PS: TSO sells direct and through a few select dealers but does not sell through AMAZON

 

[DeformedTree]

It's not that Amazon functionally doesn't work that stops people from doing anything with them or very limited.  I'm in the very limited mod.  The problem is everything else about them.  From the killing of businesses, the environmental aspects, privacy privacy privacy, etc.

Far as service and price, folks need to be aware, Amazon will just pull off a large scale version of Wal-Marts business model they had during their rapid growth phase.  Come into an area and buy out the competition locally or tell them if they don't sell out, they will run them into the ground. Create a need now that all the local businesses are gone, build store and have prices super low, kill any remaining businesses,  get everyone addicted.  Then over time raise prices, eventually to higher than they were before, but it doesn't matter as there is no competition.  By the time communities figured it out, it was too late.  It's when you move around and realize the price from one wal-mart to the next one can be double or more.  I haven't shopped at wal-mart in 15 years now.

Amazon will be the same, kill everyone off and get everyone so used to use them, threat as they ramp up prices and go more evil, folks won't notice and won't know what else to do.

The big issue right now is there really isn't much competition.  A lot of stuff you just can't find for sale anyplace but Amazon.

 

[DeformedTree]

Have any of you ever thought about how AMAZON handles the Cost of the returned or lost item?
Talk to some of their suppliers and ask them about the word "backcharge". . .  to find out who actually takes the hit.

As consumers, we ultimately reap what we sow.

Hans

PS: TSO sells direct and through a few select dealers but does not sell through AMAZON

Direct sales is the key.  What will give people a chance is direct sales. The good news is most new business work this way, and old ones do slowly learn. If only all companies would catch on and sell directly (and not charge 2x their retailers).  What kills me is companies who do their direct sales via amazon vs just selling from their own site.

I know we have many folks here who represent retailers, so the idea of all manufactures selling their stuff directly to folks isn't what they want, but that is the future, eliminate middlepeople (simplify/cheaper) and puts the burden of being good company with good product all on the manufacture. I think there will always be a place for retailers, but I want to be able to buy anything directly from who makes it too if I like.  Still dreaming of the day one can buy a car in the US from the manufacture.  For those outside the US, by laws in every state car makers can't sell you a car.  Tesla defied this and eventually got wavier specific to them to be allowed to sell cars in most states, but if you still live in a state like Michigan, you have to go to Ohio to buy a Tesla.

 

[Bob D.]

"What kills me is companies who do their direct sales via amazon vs just selling from their own site."

Well, it would be difficult if not cost prohibitive for many businesses to duplicate the web services, online payment system, and the warehousing & distribution infrastructure that Amazon has.

 

[ChuckM]

Access to potential customers may also be a factor: Amazon Prime alone has over 100 million (over 10 million?) users. Those companies want to reach those potential consumers too.

 

[bertv]

[member=20971]elfick[/member] wrote:
When dealing with that return, there's more than just the person's time generating the label and the cost of shipping it back, which is often higher than the cost to ship it to you. There's also the cost of having to pay someone to receive it, inspect it, and re-bin it. And the cost of human error resulting in mis-binned items. Someone calculated all those average costs and decided if an item is less than some amount, it's cheaper to just write it off.

Well, Amazon has outsourced the handling of returns (at least they do over here in the EU). There are specialised firms that will select what will be sold again by Amazon or disposed of in another way. The whole process sounds sustainable, but fundamentally Amazon is in the business of selling us stuff we don’t really need. Overconsumption is what will kill humanity.

Oh, btw: I was an early adaptor (eg Amazon client), on account of the non-availability of certain items, but I do not consider myself a customer anymore. I prefer to spend the few bucks I have at local businesses.

 

[Paul G]

What kills me is companies who do their direct sales via amazon vs just selling from their own site.

Have you ever developed an ecommerce website complete with all the features todays consumer has come to expect? A site that never goes down and gets enough search traffic to generate enough sales to grow a business? Your comment suggests it is simple, but it is not.

 

[DeformedTree]

What kills me is companies who do their direct sales via amazon vs just selling from their own site.

Have you ever developed an ecommerce website complete with all the features todays consumer has come to expect? A site that never goes down and gets enough search traffic to generate enough sales to grow a business? Your comment suggests it is simple, but it is not.

The don't have to do it 100% on their own.  I don't think many companies do.  Even the tiniest of 1 man outfits manage to do it just fine, large international companies won't have an issue.  The point is if you make stuff, and want to sell it, people should be able to complete the buying process via your website, the actual sales processing is very likely done via a 3rd party in the background where it is not seen.  But having no option to buy, instead you have to go search, just to have it only show up on Amazon and then it points out that it is sold from you is the madness.

 

[Paul G]

The don't have to do it 100% on their own.  I don't think many companies do.  Even the tiniest of 1 man outfits manage to do it just fine, large international companies won't have an issue.  The point is if you make stuff, and want to sell it, people should be able to complete the buying process via your website, the actual sales processing is very likely done via a 3rd party in the background where it is not seen.  But having no option to buy, instead you have to go search, just to have it only show up on Amazon and then it points out that it is sold from you is the madness.

I’m confused here, you’re OK that people often use 3rd parties to help manage their ecommerce and fulfillment, but it is madness if Amazon is that 3rd party?

 

[ChuckM]

[quote author=Bert
Snip.
Overconsumption is what will kill humanity.

but I do not consider myself a customer anymore. I prefer to spend the few bucks I have at local businesses.
[/quote]
Overconsumption - absolutely. In fact, most hobby woodworkers who have the disposable income are overconsumers too, including many many Festool owners.

I shop local or online depending on price, availability, physical size, etc. I get heavy, pricey tools from local retailers.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Man, the things you learn from media like this. I didn't even know humanity was being killed. And progress is bad.

'mkay, I'll keep my eyes open.  [scared]

 

[six-point socket II]

"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine" ...


Have fun everyone!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[elfick]

Well, Amazon has outsourced the handling of returns (at least they do over here in the EU). There are specialised firms that will select what will be sold again by Amazon or disposed of in another way. The whole process sounds sustainable, but fundamentally Amazon is in the business of selling us stuff we don’t really need. Overconsumption is what will kill humanity.

So, are you saying that because it's outsourced there is no longer a cost associated with handling returns? Of course you aren't saying that, because that would be a ridiculous thing to say. So if there is still a cost associated with it and Amazon has determined that the cost, whether the function is outsourced or not, exceeds the value of the item, what is the point of your statement?

"... but fundamentally Amazon is in the business of selling us stuff we don’t really need."
I'll let you in on a little secret... The vast majority of businesses, large and small, exist solely to sell use stuff we don't really *NEED*. 100% of what Festool sells are things we don't *NEED*. Yet here we are. We can even take this a step further and point out that the vast majority, maybe everything depending on how you look at it, of what Amazon sells is made by other companies. That means that Amazon exists solely to sell you things you don't really *NEED* that are made by companies that exists solely to make things that you don't really *NEED*.

Mind. Blown.  [eek]  [jawdrop]

Welcome to consumerism?

I guess those that answered the OP's question of "How can people not shop at Amazon?" are all welcome to their own reasons.

 

[AlexThePalex]

End of the world ... with emphasis on "as we know it".

The bane of every generation.

 

[six-point socket II]

Truth.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[DashZero]

I sold computers for a company that refused to sell mail order.  I kept selling for them and they refused to sell over the internet.  That company is out of business.  Good riddance.  I provide local and remote service to clients both in my home state and many states away, I could care less what best buy does with their flat rate, or the large company that poached one of my clients with a service contract that actual, has cost them three times the fees I used to charge.  My point is Amazon couldn’t and wouldn’t exist if it didn’t fill a niche that wasn’t being served.

I saw pawn shops complain about eBay was going to put them out of business, in fact I know some pawn shops that don’t even care about walk in customers anymore, they mostly online.

Whoever was shoeing horses or making wagon wheels when automobiles were invented either became more specialized and survived, or changed their business model.

What about all the mom and pop saw, hammer, shovel, screwdriver manufactures, that went out of business or got bought out or expanded.  There are three choices.

The customers I want are the ones that first determine the level of service they want then decide on me.  The ones that decide on me based on price first, I actually don’t want. Took a while to realize this.

Amazon truly is amazing, to the detriment of local stores. They just can't compete. WalMart had the same affect. Between the two of them plus HD and Lowes they will pretty much kill off local retailers in most markets. I don't know how our local hardware stores remain in business. One is a True Value franchise operated by the local lumber yard but the other is a ACE hardware dealer. The closest big box stores are just over 15 miles away so that is all that saves them I think. Their prices can be slightly higher as they save the cost and time of driving 30+ miles round trip to "get it cheaper" from the BORG.

 

[Holzhacker]

I live in Chicago, except for very rare specialty items Amazon sells nothing I can't go down the road and buy. If I buy from Amazon once a year I'd be surprised. I also shop online as little as possible.
A I don't need to living here; B I try not to because I prefer to support the local economy.
That said, if I lived in a lot of other places that don't have the resources that we have in Chicago I would probably have to shop Amazon or online a lot.

 

[DeformedTree]

The don't have to do it 100% on their own.  I don't think many companies do.  Even the tiniest of 1 man outfits manage to do it just fine, large international companies won't have an issue.  The point is if you make stuff, and want to sell it, people should be able to complete the buying process via your website, the actual sales processing is very likely done via a 3rd party in the background where it is not seen.  But having no option to buy, instead you have to go search, just to have it only show up on Amazon and then it points out that it is sold from you is the madness.

I’m confused here, you’re OK that people often use 3rd parties to help manage their ecommerce and fulfillment, but it is madness if Amazon is that 3rd party?

Do you seriously not understand what has been said?  The 2 things described are not the same thing.    Stores take credit cards, a store taking credit card does not setup it's own international credit card processing company.  Same for e-commercre, I don't think very many set up their own system.  Just like companies don't create there own internet ISP to get their office online, or code their own document created, spread sheet creation software, they buy it from someone else.  Selling something via Amazon is not the same as using a e-commerce software company for e-commerce on your own website, not even remotely the same thing.

 

[DeformedTree]

I sold computers for a company that refused to sell mail order.  I kept selling for them and they refused to sell over the internet.  That company is out of business.  Good riddance.  I provide local and remote service to clients both in my home state and many states away, I could care less what best buy does with their flat rate, or the large company that poached one of my clients with a service contract that actual, has cost them three times the fees I used to charge.  My point is Amazon couldn’t and wouldn’t exist if it didn’t fill a niche that wasn’t being served.

I saw pawn shops complain about eBay was going to put them out of business, in fact I know some pawn shops that don’t even care about walk in customers anymore, they mostly online.

Whoever was shoeing horses or making wagon wheels when automobiles were invented either became more specialized and survived, or changed their business model.

What about all the mom and pop saw, hammer, shovel, screwdriver manufactures, that went out of business or got bought out or expanded.  There are three choices.

The customers I want are the ones that first determine the level of service they want then decide on me.  The ones that decide on me based on price first, I actually don’t want. Took a while to realize this.

Amazon truly is amazing, to the detriment of local stores. They just can't compete. WalMart had the same affect. Between the two of them plus HD and Lowes they will pretty much kill off local retailers in most markets. I don't know how our local hardware stores remain in business. One is a True Value franchise operated by the local lumber yard but the other is a ACE hardware dealer. The closest big box stores are just over 15 miles away so that is all that saves them I think. Their prices can be slightly higher as they save the cost and time of driving 30+ miles round trip to "get it cheaper" from the BORG.

I think you lost the plot here,  yes, Amazon exist because there was a need,  really e-commerce, not Amazon  exist because of the things you mention. That is not the issue. The issue is when any single entity takes over to the level they have, it hurts everyone.  As it stands, no one could launch a competitor to them right now.  Amazon was allowed to take losses for over a decade. No company can do that now just to try and compete with them. Further you can't just avoid them, as Amazon has branched into so many things behind the scenes.  Even if you stopped using the internet (it's impossible for the most part to use the internet without touching Amazon since their webserver presence is such a large part of it), you still can't avoid them, Amazon is everywhere and in everything.  The world of Alexa just adds to the problem.  You have no idea if someone has such a device around you in hearing range.  Your local government, your place of work likely have something going on with some aspect of Amazon.  And to be clear, they are not alone on some of these issues (Google).  Our government went after Microsoft in the 90s for having the nerve to put a webbrowser in their operating system,  now we have systems that one company can be everything.

Filling a void created by bad businesses 25 years ago doesn't mean everything you do from that point on is just fine.  Google started out as the not-evil company, they were to protect everyone from MS evils.  Now I think most people would trust MS anyday over google, and few trust Microsoft at all.

When any company has the lion share of a market, that is very bad.  When people have no way to completely bypass a particular company in their lives there is a major problem.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Selling something via Amazon is not the same as using a e-commerce software company for e-commerce on your own website, not even remotely the same thing.

Amazon's services might be more all-encompassing than just selling you software, but the basic idea is the same: help you sell your goods online.

Since all is happening online as letters on your screen, what does it even matter what company is behind it? What does it matter if it says Amazon, or Newegg, or Walmart or Toolsonline? It's all just letters on your screen.

It is not like you're dealing with actual people anymore like in a brick and morter store.

Most of the time it's Google where you start anyway. Then you click on a link and it brings you to a product page with some letters on it. A banner at the top. Some photos and a description of your desired product. A button to the shopping cart and finally a button to select your payment method. And then just sit back and wait for it to arrive at your doorstep.

All perfectly anonymous. They're just letters on a screen to you and you're just letters on a screen to them. So what does it matter what the letters say exactly? As long as you get the goods and they get the coin.