How do you organize?

[Forged3D]

We wanted to drop a question into the hopper to get a little view on how everyone organizes all the bits and bobs in their shops. We'd especially love feedback from those using the Systainer3 M89 / L89 Organizers!

Are you a minimalist and keep only the bare minimum fasteners about or are you Adam Savage with an entire 'hardware store' at your disposal in the shop?  Do you divide up your organizers by fastener size?  Application? Screws and such in one, with bolts, washers, inserts, etc in another?

Organization is such a personal thing and what works for one might not work for all, but we'd love to hear about the systems everyone has developed that works for them... We'd also love to hear about the system which you employ that just DOESN'T work at all which you'd love to address!  Anyways we hope to see some great banter and feedback, as we always find it fascinating on how people work!

 

[six-point socket II]

I use the Sys3 M89 organizers to store screws, small concrete anchors (think tapcons) and some "speciality" screws/bolts for specific tasks or to use with specific products. This has been and still is a great solution to have them organized for both shop and mobile project-site use.

However, for many other consumables I still prefer the cantilever Sys-SB. Especially for "kit building" = grab the box, have everything you need for task X at hand.

They play together well, so that's not an issue.

Quantity? Enough to get the project done/ make an unexpected fix. I top them off regularly.

Storage however is a completely different story. I buy screws/(...) in card board boxes from an industrial supplier, they have standardized measurements depending on content and those fit their shop & van racking and additionally their own line of tool boxes/ mobility solution. Everything goes together nicely.

Since I'm a low-volume customer I don't qualify for "free" (aka paid through consumable purchases) shop racking, so I simply bought a single shop rack off someone who was making adjustments to his shop and listed a few such "system racks" for sale. That was the easiest and most economical way. So long story short, a small space in my storage room is occupied by that rack, and it holds all my consumables in their original packaging.

This is also great for when I need a lot more than any of the mobile solutions will hold, I simply grab a fresh pack or two from that rack and put them in one of my SYS-TB for transportation. These card board boxes are pretty neat, can be opened in different ways, stay closed. Only thing they obviously don't exactly like is rain & snow ...

Since you mentioned Adam Savage, back when I saw his video on storage he was using Sortimo. And he went about the consumables like: "one of everything please". I guess when you do the builds he does, there is some justification for that.

Still, in todays world were everything is at your fingertips when working with a reliable partner/ industrial supplier, I think it's an incredible waste and a lot of dead capital - no matter if you can easily afford it or maybe not. At some point it's going to get thrown out.

And don't "Covid"/ supply chain interruption me here, reliable suppliers (and that goes both ways) had everything and delivered. Only issues ever were with new relationships and suppliers that were one way or another not reliable before hand.

It's also great to be in Europe and have suppliers that still run production here.

Speaking of nuts, bolts, washers - personally I have very little use for them. So I only keep very few in a small rack, and I tend to buy those from the "loose/ buy by the piece hardware" aisle in a local big box store. As my supplier's minimum order quantities usually exceed my demand by far. Unless, I need/want some sort of certification/declaration, then I buy from selected, afore mentioned, suppliers only.

I don't use the Sys3 M89 organizers for anything else.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[timwors]

I also use the Sys3 M89 organisers to store hardware, and have them organised to have a wide range of sizes/lengths of screws, bolts, etc. Because of the small size of the individual storage bins I also have a separate Systainer (187 size I think) with the "master" boxes from the supplier in. When each bin is down to about half full I refill it from the master one. It works well.

As ever, it all works very well until you run out of space, and then you get something new which needs its own bin. This means I'm frequently shuffling stuff around. That's when it's useful to have a range of bin sizes so I can swap things in/out and sometimes combine things together.

In terms of new products, for me it would be great to have storage bins which go beyond the standard Festool sizes. For instance I use an M89 for electrical items (rarely used) - things like long cable ties are quite awkward to store, you need a bin that's the full length of the systainer but very narrow to avoid wasting space. Ditto with the soldering iron, which is also long and fairly thin. A bin which can be used as a tape dispenser would also be neat if feasible. Long narrow bins would also work quite well for me with drill bits, especially if they are half-height so they can be stacked vertically.

 

[woodferret]

I use the org M for on-hand bits and bobs.  Typically stock various sizes and heads in the standard 50x100 bins.  Some really used sizes get the bigger bins but the master boxes are kept elsewhere in cold storage.  I've taken to printing 25x50 bins for some of the really small stuff like insert nuts and electrical connectors.

 

[Forged3D]

Great replies so far... We probably should have shared a little bit of how we do things in the shop (currently) and what we are considering with a large re-organization of our....errrr... organization.

As we do woodworking along with batch manufacturing and prototyping we have to straddle three worlds, with a wide assortment of fasteners for prototyping needs and a ready-to-use supply of bits and bobs for batch / shop work.  We adopted the M89 boxes after we found we were constantly going back and forth to grab the right fasteners from our Akro Mills wall hanging units.  The great thing about the Akro Milll bin drawers is they are quick and easy to access, IF you grab the right fastener the first time.  But in production operations, having to grab multiples was always a pinch point.  We've divided the M89s into two distinct classifications... General use fasteners (for shop and prototyping) and product / project use fasteners.

General use fasteners / parts all go in standard light grey M89s with color coded latches denoting the category or style of fastener / part.  Metric has sky blue latches, imperial has red latches (we carry this color theme to tool organization as well), electrical has deep orange latches, and construction (lags, big stuff) has yellow latches.  Each M89 gets a PVC printed card dropped into its label slot to identify what parts and pieces are in the organizer (very general or very specific depending the number of parts).  On the bins themselves there are labels that denote what is in each individual bin and each bin is typically sized to hold the minimum we need on hand or the minimum that is delivered from our supplier.

Product / Project use fasteners / parts all go in anthracite grey M89s with sapphire blue latches.  Each M89 gets a PVC printed card dropped into its label slot to identify which product or project that this M89 supports.... And we only allow a maximum of 2 different products / product lines or projects to be supported by one M89. In these M89s, the bins themselves might also get additional color codes to further demark how the fastener or part is to be employed, along with the printed labels.  These bins will typically be sized a little larger to make sure we have stock on hand for anticipated production runs, but still relatively slim since we can typically get fasteners next day from McMaster or Fastenal.

When it is time to start production, we can simply grab the correct M89 and take it to the assembly table to start working and reduce the number of trips between assembly areas and parts areas.  One key for us in our process is that even if we have stock fasteners in general use M89s those are never considered as 'in stock' for production use.. We could have (100) M4 x 12mm screws in the general use M89 and if the product M89 starts getting low, we immediately reorder and only raid the general use M89s if someone (me) screwed up and didn't order things when they were supposed to.

This system is working great right now by keeping the two sides of the house happy and not fighting over fasteners or M89s.  It is working especially well on the batch side.  On the general use side, we are running into the same problem [member=77926]timwors[/member] referenced in needing to continually shift bins arounds as we outgrow a particular M89.  Here is where we are considering new options.  Currently an M89 will typically hold a range of fastener / part sizes and a corresponding supporting hardware i.e. M3, M4, m5 screws and their corresponding washers, bolts, threaded inserts, etc.  When we start building out our assortments for prototyping this leads to a bit of a clutter.... So we are considering splitting M89s down into further specialization, where one M89 would hold the primary part and a secondary M89 would carry the supporting parts.  Or for very specialized parts these would all go into a single M89, say  threaded inserts for example... All of these would end up in one M89.

In the woodworking side of the shop, its MUCH less complicated... One M89 can hold a large assortment of screws or fasteners divided simply organized by size.

Wow... That was a lot!

I also use the Sys3 M89 organisers to store hardware, and have them organised to have a wide range of sizes/lengths of screws, bolts, etc. Because of the small size of the individual storage bins I also have a separate Systainer (187 size I think) with the "master" boxes from the supplier in. When each bin is down to about half full I refill it from the master one. It works well.

As ever, it all works very well until you run out of space, and then you get something new which needs its own bin. This means I'm frequently shuffling stuff around. That's when it's useful to have a range of bin sizes so I can swap things in/out and sometimes combine things together.

In terms of new products, for me it would be great to have storage bins which go beyond the standard Festool sizes. For instance I use an M89 for electrical items (rarely used) - things like long cable ties are quite awkward to store, you need a bin that's the full length of the systainer but very narrow to avoid wasting space. Ditto with the soldering iron, which is also long and fairly thin. A bin which can be used as a tape dispenser would also be neat if feasible. Long narrow bins would also work quite well for me with drill bits, especially if they are half-height so they can be stacked vertically.

What size (number of grids or mm) half-height bins would you be looking for?  We already have an assortment on our store, but always open for feedback from community on the demand for other sizes.  The only caveat is that manufacturing really large bins isn't terribly efficient unless done at scale so it's always a balance.

 

[woodferret]

I find that for shop prototyping/3DP builds I will just grab the relevant bins from the orgs... as they may be scattered across different orgs.  I have a BOM anyways and it's easier to load up one 'tray' than to take the entire stack.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm just starting to incorporate the SysOrg M89 into my hardware storage.
I started with some box store bins, that I keep in a large dedicated drawer. Then expanded with some more of the same ones and put them on a shelf behind where I stand, at the bench. They are way too big for "everything", but fine for the stuff I use the most.
Then I bought some smaller (assorted) ones from Amazon. The sizes worked out ok, but the drawer I put them in came first, so they don't fit it exactly. So that means they move around. "Someday" I might get around to making some blocking to stabilize them  :
The M89 that came as the screwdriver tip installer's pack started me on the path of storing screws in there too. That set ships with driver tips (1") in each of those bins, but that's a huge waste of space.
So, I'm down to sorting out the smallest hardware to go into the tiny bins from that particular M89.
The other SysOrgs have larger bins and I have to figure out how it's going to work for me.
I may end up getting some more of the bigger ones separately.

 

[Forged3D]

I find that for shop prototyping/3DP builds I will just grab the relevant bins from the orgs... as they may be scattered across different orgs.  I have a BOM anyways and it's easier to load up one 'tray' than to take the entire stack.

That's pretty much our workflow as well with prototyping, grabbing from the requisite general use M89 (NEVER robbing from product M89).  And this is our biggest hesitation on dividing things up into more speciality groupings, splitting fastener from a mating part.  Right now we know the M4 assortment of fasteners are in one M89, marked with sky blue latch and their corresponding mating parts are in the SAME M89.  So we just have to grab one.  The problem is we either have to start splitting sizes M3 and M4 and M5 and M6 and... etc etc.  OR we split fasteners from their mating parts.

We moved to metric for prototyping and manufacturing of our on products, for customer products it depends on if they were designed by us or a design they provided.  General use fasteners mostly don't require their own M89 i.e. M3 doesn't need a complete M89 with or without their mating components... Even M4, which is our most common, doesn't need its own.

I'm probably over-thinking this as I'm apt to do and just adapt the system as we continue to grow and test, etc.  And that is the beauty of the bin system is it really is a matter of just popping it in a new M89. And it's not like we aren't printing our own bins or anything to optimize storage and organization in each M89  [wink]. We are just at a fork in the road on needing to make a decision and I'm just not ready to commit  [cool]

I'm just starting to incorporate the SysOrg M89 into my hardware storage.
I started with some box store bins, that I keep in a large dedicated drawer. Then expanded with some more of the same ones and put them on a shelf behind where I stand, at the bench. They are way too big for "everything", but fine for the stuff I use the most.
Then I bought some smaller (assorted) ones from Amazon. The sizes worked out ok, but the drawer I put them in came first, so they don't fit it exactly. So that means they move around. "Someday" I might get around to making some blocking to stabilize them  :
The M89 that came as the screwdriver tip installer's pack started me on the path of storing screws in there too. That set ships with driver tips (1") in each of those bins, but that's a huge waste of space.
So, I'm down to sorting out the smallest hardware to go into the tiny bins from that particular M89.
The other SysOrgs have larger bins and I have to figure out how it's going to work for me.
I may end up getting some more of the bigger ones separately.

Agree on the installer pack fitout of bins for bits is RIDICULOUSLY inefficient.  But I really do like that sapphire blue M89  [big grin]  And I'm going to insert a shameless plug here for a couple of our products that address a couple of your points... The 50x50 bins just didn't cut it, so we designed half height ones in various configurations to address this. They are perfect to consolidate short items into a tighter space and it makes getting to said items infinitely easier.  We also have a grid system for the bins that fits into any drawer you want to place it in to allow moving between drawer, to M89 and back again with no issue.  If you are so inclined check them out at the link in our signature.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Installer pack bins… I transferred all the 1” bits to these bit holders from Amazon. The right amount of space for the set of bits provided and 50 times more efficient use of space. Except now I have a box half full of empty bin’s waiting to be put to better use.

 

[WillAdams]

I'm currently considering moving over to Systainers --- I believe a Tanos MW 1000 Mobile Workstation would be the best option for me moving forward.

Currently all of my small frequently used hardware is either in the medium 18-compartment storage organizers from Harbor Freight, or other Storehouse brand things suited to the state of a given set of hardware --- the M6 stuff has grown into (and since overgrown) a Storehouse 10 Tray organizer.

The problem is, I'm storing things as small as M3 washers and as large as M8 threaded rod lengths (and I've got a _lot_ of small brass screws and various brass hardware which needs a suitable storage place/organizer system until the projects they are intended for are complete).

The larger organizers are just too large, though I did wind up using a Storehouse 8-Bin Large Portable Parts Storage Case (with a bunch of the organizers from a broken Storehouse 10 Tray Organizer).

So, my ideal system would have a range of sizes of lidded plastic trays with an assortment of compartment arrangements (that's one of the great things about the 10 Tray Organizer --- there are several options:

- fully open --- I use those for tools:

- side-to-side (also used for tools) and front--back (used for endmills):

and clamps:

There's also a 10-compartment one which is nice for collets.

The problem is, the plastic carrying bins are bulky and awkward to get things in and out of, and I don't have enough space on the small side table I'm using to lay them out sometimes.

I bought a pair of the meme mini toolboxes from Lowe's:

and I'm still trying to decide if they are worth the effort of transferring everything over or no.

So, if that doesn't work out, my plan is:

- buy a Tanos MW 1000 Mobile Workstation
- cover the top w/ some sort of non-slip surface
- arrange all the plastic bins I have CNC stuff in now in a Systainer as the top drawer --- I think they'll fit two across at an angle and I'll be able to flip through them like cards
- put all my other Systainers (red/white one for PPE, grey MFT one w/ MDF work surface for clamps, Mirka branded one for sanding stuff) in a stack underneath, and as budget allows, buy more drawers and more Systainers and re-arrange as circumstances allow

I'd be open to other ideas/suggestions.

I've looked at the 3D printed stuff (but my 3D printer is still out of commission after going out on loan and I don't have a good place to put it), and it all seems to use way more space than I think I have/can afford to allocate.

 

[woodferret]

On a side note, [member=67313]WillAdams[/member] MW1000 can hold one SYS1 (pullout), SYS4+SYS1 (pullout).  Can't hold more than that and more drawers will eat space.  And it's surprisingly heavy for what it is... I just use it more as a junk surface and a mount point for the extra table as needed.

 

[Cheese]

Here are a couple of M 89's that are used for electrical parts.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

For Molex electrical connector assemblies, I use this Plano plastic box that costs $9. Tough to beat for the price. However, I may replace this Plano with a M 89 as it is carried and moved around a lot. That's usually the reason I cough up the extra $$ for the Festool item, ease of movement.

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

For stainless fasteners I again use the Plano boxes because I use them like Akro bins with covers in the sense they are never really moved to a different location, just covered storage.

Again, tough to beat the price as this group of 12 Plano's cost around $100, whereas this pair of 2 each M 89's cost $170.

[attachimg=6]

[attachimg=7]

 

[Packard]

When I had my picture framing shop it was perfectly organized after about 6 months.  At that point I had all the equipment that I was likely to need.

The problem with my home shop is every few months I add some new stuff.  So it is a constant re-organization.

And my processes vary, so sometimes the organization makes sense and at other times it does not.

In the frame shop there was a standard work flow.  Everything was organized around that standard. 

But if you are doing a bunch of different projects, each with a different workflow, the best you can do is “at least I know where it is”.  Nothing is as frustrating and looking for something you know you have, but have not used in years.  That’s what I try to work against.

 

[Forged3D]

I'm currently considering moving over to Systainers --- I believe a Tanos MW 1000 Mobile Workstation would be the best option for me moving forward.

Will, Awesome details and we've used some similar compartmented bins around the shop for same reasons. We even have these compartmented bins INSIDE of the M89s along with the standard Tanos bins. That's what led us to create half height bins for the M89 / L89s to try to avoid opening the nesting doll problem. 

We still have a couple floating around with metric washer sets in them that we haven't gotten to transitioning to our half heights.  This is part of the Great Organizer Re-Organization of 2024 and part of the genesis of this thread.

I keep wanting to get the MW1000 for use in the shop and around the house for an easy work portable work surface, but at the house I use the L89 Organizer and L series toolboxes to carry everything TO the project but that leads to a bit of an issue... Plus like [member=72072]woodferret[/member] mentioned its not svelte.

Again, tough to beat the price as this group of 12 Plano's cost around $100, whereas this pair of 2 each M 89's cost $170.

We just closed our eyes and hit buy on a bundle of M89s from [member=68900]Systainer.Store[/member] to quit waffling on completing our move to M89s. But no doubt it is definitely an 'investment' that we are lucky we could make.  You know it's a write off!!!

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Installer pack bins… I transferred all the 1” bits to these bit holders from Amazon. The right amount of space for the set of bits provided and 50 times more efficient use of space. Except now I have a box half full of empty bin’s waiting to be put to better use.

Exactly. I assume that this is what Festool expects us to do? Even though those little 50 x 50 bins are not really big enough to need a lot of them, they are huge in comparison to the 1" bits that come in them.
I switched one of the bigger bins from the new M89 into the installer set, just to have a bin big enough for the driver handle (and some other small things) That put even more of the 50 x 50s in the new M89.
I'm going to have to look into [member=80953]forg3d.store[/member]  options

 

[Mini Me]

I am cheap and don't like putting hardware in boxes or systainers so when I revamped my workshop I built drawer stacks to suit using suitable drawer depths. I have a friend who has a massive OCD problem and around that time he designed a bin system that is based on the 32mm concept and it works very well. I initially built all the bins in 3mm mdf but we have a 3D printer now and when I have finished the renovation I am doing I will convert to printed plastic boxes.