How Many Versions Of The 12v CXS Are There?

[alltracman78]

Think I'm going to start testing the waters with Festool drill/drivers. Most likely with the 12v CXS.

I've seen mention of several different versions though. Trying to sort out how many there are.

Older mechanical clutch vs the new(er?) electronic one
herehttps://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/cxs-12-electronic-clutch-versus-cxs-'classic'-mechanical-clutch/

However a picture in the above thread shows a newer battery that doesn't look compatible with the current CXS 12v battery on Festool USAs site.
https://www.festoolusa.com/accessor...accessories/battery-packs/577385---bp-12-li-2,6-c-us#Overview

Are there 3 plus versions? Or just 2 and I'm missing something?

Specifically CXS 12v. Not worried about the new 18v at the moment.

 

[Cheese]

The original small, brushed motor CXS 10.8 was first offered in 2011 with a 1.3 Ah battery. In 2012 it was offered with a 1.5 Ah battery and in 2015 it was offered with a 2.6 Ah battery. The same drill but with 3 different batteries.

The brushless CXS 12 was just released in 2023 and is the topic of most of the recent conversations.

[attachimg=1]

 

[alltracman78]

The original small, brushed motor CXS 10.8 was first offered in 2011 with a 1.3 Ah battery. In 2012 it was offered with a 1.5 Ah battery and in 2015 it was offered with a 2.6 Ah battery. The same drill but with 3 different batteries.

The brushless CXS 12 was just released in 2023 and is the topic of most of the recent conversations.

[attachimg=1]

The brushed motor CSX has a manual clutch version and an electronic clutch version?

In the thread I referenced it was discussed as the "newer" CSX with the electronic clutch had the "newer" battery (pictured on the right in that photo).

 

[squall_line]

There are zero versions of the 12v CSX.

CSX is a railroad company.

CXS (for C-handle, eXtra Small) is the drill/driver.

And technically, there's only one 12v CXS, since the old model was only 10.6v, even though it was called "12v" nominally.

That joke/clarification aside, no, there is only a manual-clutch version of the older CXS 10 (which was only ever called the CXS).  It is/was sold in various configurations including or excluding batteries and accessories, but other than the battery differences that Cheese posted, it's the same drill/driver with the same features.

The CXS 12 is the new version with the new battery and the electronic-only clutch.

 

[Michael Kellough]

So, how many volts is the CXS 12?

 

[alltracman78]

There are zero versions of the 12v CSX.

CSX is a railroad company.

CXS (for C-handle, eXtra Small) is the drill/driver.

And technically, there's only one 12v CXS, since the old model was only 10.6v, even though it was called "12v" nominally.

That joke/clarification aside, no, there is only a manual-clutch version of the older CXS 10 (which was only ever called the CXS).  It is/was sold in various configurations including or excluding batteries and accessories, but other than the battery differences that Cheese posted, it's the same drill/driver with the same features.

The CXS 12 is the new version with the new battery and the electronic-only clutch.

[big grin]
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't paying close enough attention obviously.

Here's my confusion regarding versions:
In the thread I referenced the discussion is manual vs electronic clutch.
According to the posts the older, manual clutch version has the L shaped battery.
The newer electronic clutch version has the updated battery that will work with either manual or electronic clutch versions (slightly different voltage but physically will attach and works).

However, the newest version on Festools website has a completely different battery that wouldn't work with either of the 2 shown in the thread. It's a slide on vs the clip in on the older 2. So it may be the same voltage but it physically can't attach to the ones that use the clip on battery.

To me this says there are at least 3 versions.

 

[squall_line]

I think there's a misunderstanding of what the batteries are about; I didn't take away from that thread what you took away from that thread.

Then again, I've had a "classic" CXS for quite a while, so it's more familiar to me.

The "L" shaped battery was superseded by a flat clip-on battery (a picture of which [member=44099]Cheese[/member] posted in this thread as well as the referenced thread).  Both are for the "classic" CXS with the mechanical clutch.  That/those battery/ies is/are only compatible with the CXS "classic" and TXS "classic".

The slide-on 12V battery currently only works on the CXS 12.  It is not compatible with any other tool that Festool currently makes (unless they also make a TXS 12, but I can't keep track any more).

 

[alltracman78]

Gotcha!
Thanks for the clarification.

I was reading it as the electronic clutch version also had the new(er) backwards compatible battery. It doesn't.
Next question would be, are those batteries still available? The newer clip on ones. Because Festool only lists the newest CXS it doesn't readily show the older style battery when you do a search.

 

[alltracman78]

Disregard. I found them.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[alltracman78]

Side note, it's funny how much people want for used stuff sometimes.

The fact you can buy brand new, unscratched, completely unused, with a full warranty, shipped to your door for $100 more (or less).
Vs my time/gas to drive somewhere to have to test/haggle for a used tool with a partial warranty at best.
Not to mention people don't seem to understand what "like new" actually means.....

 

[Coen]

So, how many volts is the CXS 12?

About 12.5 when full and 9.0 when empty.

 

[mino]

So, how many volts is the CXS 12?

10.8V nominal.

[cool]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Bosch had the same issue back with the original "Pocket Driver" They started out with the more accurate 10.8v designation. After a while, they got pulled into the marketing game, because of the lack of consumer awareness. Then they suddenly started shipping with "12v" batteries. Apparently, it increased sales, being perceived as better? (Even though the only difference was the sticker)
I was even given a couple of them, by the area rep, at a local dealer's open house.

I'm still on the fence over the new version. I really like the form-factor of the classic and the only Festool batteries I have are for that.  Although I don't really "need" another drill, I like the shorter body of the new one, but not looking for another single-tool battery.

 

[Mini Me]

IIRC Bosch and other manufacturers were told to specify 10.8v as that was the nominal battery voltage created when standard cells were used in the packs.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

IIRC Bosch and other manufacturers were told to specify 10.8v as that was the nominal battery voltage created when standard cells were used in the packs.

I believe you are right, and it does make sense. I think Bosch even tried to explain that to people, but it was to no avail. Most are looking at it superficially.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Isn't the Dewalt 20v Max actually 18 volts?
I think all nominal 18 volt packs put out 20 volts briefly when fully charged and quickly settle to 18+ volts.

 

[mino]

Li-Ion cells have a continuous linear voltage drop as they are drained.
[attachimg=1]

As Coen mentioned, *all* 3-cell packs  (called 10.8V in "tech speak" and 12V in "sales-speak"):
are:
12.3 V (peak, fully charged)
10.8V nominal *)
9V (drained to 3.0V, aka safe voltage)

The same with *all* 5-cell series packs (called 18V in "tech speak" and 20V in "sales-speak"):
20.5 V (peak, fully charged)
18V nominal *)
15V (drained)

Analogous to this, the Makita XGT is:
41 V (peak, fully charged)
36V nominal *)
30V (drained)

The "12V" and "20V" numbers used these days have no actual meaning, except being the "rounded number that looks higher than nominal and cannot be sued over as the packs do have it /when not loaded/".

Sorry for the TLDR, but I noticed some folks did not catch all of the snarky remarks .. as snarky remarks.
  [cool]

---
*) nominal voltage is the average voltage of the cells across their working time, it can be used to calculate energy capacity using this voltage so e.g. the 5,2 Ah pack has 3,6(V)*5(cells-in-series)*5,2(Ah)=93,6 Wh total energy in it

 

[Coen]

For Bosch there was also a short time they labeled it 11,1V

But in the end it's all the same, mostly.

The newer packs have better (lower) impedance than the older packs.

It's basically all debauchery now. In the past with the 1.2V NiMH and earlier NiCd cells they were accurately labeled 9,6 / 10,8 / 12,0 / 14,4 / 15,6 / 18,0. And perhaps there were other brands that I don't remember with 16,8 and 13,2V packs.

The voltage alone doesn't say much anyway. The amount of useable power you get out of a pack depends also on the tool, the exact cells used, the ability of the pack to transfer heat, etc.
I refurbed a 14,4V (4S) 1,3 Ah Metabo pack with high current 2,5 Ah cells. It now takes 3x longer to charge and when in use it doesn't sag anywhere near as much under heavy load. The combination with the tool however still gives a weaker combo than a new brushless "12V" Bosch with 3 Ah battery.