How not to tile a shower...

[Paul G]

My price was to high. She saved herself about 8K from the stories we heard.

Tom

Let's reassess that savings after the do-over

 

[Cheese]

... buying the materials and placing them directly in the dumpster would be more environmentally friendly

Funny... [thumbs up]

 

[Steven Owen]

People make mistakes like this all the time.  I can walk around my neighbor and see decks using  OSB instead of treated plywood, unsecured deck beams sitting on on top of pavers and rails only held in with 2 inch screws. 

When see what’s going on outside the home, you can only image how bad things are inside the house.

 

[tjbnwi]

My price was to high. She saved herself about 8K from the stories we heard.

Tom

Let's reassess that savings after the do-over

The redo is 10K.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

The redo is 10K.

I’m surprised it isn’t more because of the price of the demo and all those materials have to be purchased a 2nd time, and then there’s the mold thing.

 

[antss]

‘‘Tis a shame because the install appears to be a nice one. Unfortunately this is how many start and how many end. Tragic that you spend your $$ and receive this as a result.

Take a closer look, I can see that the field tile grout lines (horiz.) are not aligned in pics 1& 2. 

In pic 3 the squares are not in the same plane as the rectangles above and below.  That strip of squares also undulates something terrible, I don't even need a straight edge to tell.    Hard to be certain from the pix, but I'll bet the corners are grouted also.

Though I must say the niches don't look half bad from here.

 

[tjbnwi]

‘‘Tis a shame because the install appears to be a nice one. Unfortunately this is how many start and how many end. Tragic that you spend your $$ and receive this as a result.

Take a closer look, I can see that the field tile grout lines (horiz.) are not aligned in pics 1& 2. 

In pic 3 the squares are not in the same plane as the rectangles above and below.  That strip of squares also undulates something terrible, I don't even need a straight edge to tell.    Hard to be certain from the pix, but I'll bet the corners are grouted also.

Though I must say the niches don't look half bad from here.

She wants the squares out of plane with the rectangular tiles. I asked her about correcting that (I honestly don't think the guy knew how to correct the plane issue).

Tom

Tom

 

[Naildrivingman]

It indeed is a sad state when consumers are blinded by cost or slippery talk or both.  I have gone up against this type of "competition" too many times to count. Hopefully there can be some legal recourse to soften the blow.  Unfortunately (at least in MN) there isn't enough statutory protection.  Hopefully this will resolve itself quickly.

 

[tjbnwi]

It indeed is a sad state when consumers are blinded by cost or slippery talk or both.  I have gone up against this type of "competition" too many times to count. Hopefully there can be some legal recourse to soften the blow.  Unfortunately (at least in MN) there isn't enough statutory protection.  Hopefully this will resolve itself quickly.

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

The shower will be resolved mid next week.

Tom

 

[Sparktrician]

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

Hear, hear!!!  [thumbs up]

 

[jaguar36]

Getting a quote that was $8k less than what was presumably already a discounted "Family rate" would set off all sorts of alarm bells with me.

 

[Naildrivingman]

It indeed is a sad state when consumers are blinded by cost or slippery talk or both.  I have gone up against this type of "competition" too many times to count. Hopefully there can be some legal recourse to soften the blow.  Unfortunately (at least in MN) there isn't enough statutory protection.  Hopefully this will resolve itself quickly.

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

The shower will be resolved mid next week.

Tom

I’m guessing she’s not exactly a favorite relative of yours...

 

[tjbnwi]

Getting a quote that was $8k less than what was presumably already a discounted "Family rate" would set off all sorts of alarm bells with me.

There were 5 people in this world that got/get a discount from me--two were my parents, now deceased--the other 3 are our children, their discount is 100%.

What they (and everyone else who hires me) get with me is someone who actually cares about the job that is being done on their home.

I believe most jobs are dome poorly due to the chasing of the dollar. They're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I price my services so chasing the dollar is never a concern for me.

This may all seem cold but it is just business.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

It indeed is a sad state when consumers are blinded by cost or slippery talk or both.  I have gone up against this type of "competition" too many times to count. Hopefully there can be some legal recourse to soften the blow.  Unfortunately (at least in MN) there isn't enough statutory protection.  Hopefully this will resolve itself quickly.

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

The shower will be resolved mid next week.

Tom

I’m guessing she’s not exactly a favorite relative of yours...

I'm fine with her. She made a bad decision based on money. I see no need for the courts to get involved.

Our son in law is a partner in a law firm, his specialty is construction defect law. She is going to call him and get his opinion on this.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

I agree totally with that statement, however not every homeowner knows the poignant questions to ask a contractor and can understand what the repercussions that a faulty install may entail. Consider your SIL... had she asked the correct questions, assuming she knew what to ask the contractor in the first place, and had she been given honest answers by the contractor she hired...she may have never been in the situation she is in now.

Personally, I find it imperative to pursue the general contractor for damages because it’s not just a situation of butchering your SIL’s house but rather how many more houses will he bastardize in the future before he’s presented papers or has his license revoked.

What may be obvious to some of us is not necessarily obvious to others that just want to “take out the garbage and rake the leaves.”

 

[tjbnwi]

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

I agree totally with that statement, however not every homeowner knows the poignant questions to ask a contractor and can understand what the repercussions that a faulty install may entail. Consider your SIL... had she asked the correct questions, assuming she knew what to ask the contractor in the first place, and had she been given honest answers by the contractor she hired...she may have never been in the situation she is in now.

Personally, I find it imperative to pursue the general contractor for damages because it’s not just a situation of butchering your SIL’s house but rather how many more houses will he bastardize in the future before he’s presented papers or has his license revoked.

What may be obvious to some of us is not necessarily obvious to others that just want to “take out the garbage and rake the leaves.”

She's been my SIL for 39+ years. She had my price and a proposal from another company, we were within 500 dollars of each other.

This isn't like buying a car or other commodity (easy to compare like kind and quality). If you are going to have a service preformed you have a few choices and decisions to make;

Go with a trusted service provider.

Learn the necessary steps to a successful project. Write spec sheet.

Don't watch home improvement porn.

Tom

 

[Naildrivingman]

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

I agree totally with that statement, however not every homeowner knows the poignant questions to ask a contractor and can understand what the repercussions that a faulty install may entail. Consider your SIL... had she asked the correct questions, assuming she knew what to ask the contractor in the first place, and had she been given honest answers by the contractor she hired...she may have never been in the situation she is in now.

Personally, I find it imperative to pursue the general contractor for damages because it’s not just a situation of butchering your SIL’s house but rather how many more houses will he bastardize in the future before he’s presented papers or has his license revoked.

What may be obvious to some of us is not necessarily obvious to others that just want to “take out the garbage and rake the leaves.”

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] illustrates exactly the point I made originally.  This contractor should not be allowed to harm others.  If your SIL specifically made spurious comments regarding your price (and the other company) as compared to the one she accepted, then she does own some responsibility in this failure.  A truly informed person cannot legitimately compare proposal X to proposals X + 8000.  I can understand how product selection makes up for some of the difference, but not anywhere near $8000.

If a person with no psychological issues walks onto the freeway at rush hour and expects not to get hurt, then he must shoulder the responsibility of his actions. Other than that, no one deserves to get hurt.  We as contractors have a measure of responsibility to educate consumers about the pitfalls of “home improvement porn”.  I don’t believe most consumers truly understand what we understand.

 

[Rob-GB]

I don’t believe most consumers truly understand what we understand.

Most don't understand design drawings or plans. [sad]
A couple of years doing kitchen and bathroom design taught me that and I still get caught off guard occasionally by clients that I have thought more capable than they are  [doh]

Rob.

 

[tjbnwi]

I hope she has no recourse, the law should not protect you from your own stupidity.

I agree totally with that statement, however not every homeowner knows the poignant questions to ask a contractor and can understand what the repercussions that a faulty install may entail. Consider your SIL... had she asked the correct questions, assuming she knew what to ask the contractor in the first place, and had she been given honest answers by the contractor she hired...she may have never been in the situation she is in now.

Personally, I find it imperative to pursue the general contractor for damages because it’s not just a situation of butchering your SIL’s house but rather how many more houses will he bastardize in the future before he’s presented papers or has his license revoked.

What may be obvious to some of us is not necessarily obvious to others that just want to “take out the garbage and rake the leaves.”

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] illustrates exactly the point I made originally.  This contractor should not be allowed to harm others.  If your SIL specifically made spurious comments regarding your price (and the other company) as compared to the one she accepted, then she does own some responsibility in this failure.  A truly informed person cannot legitimately compare proposal X to proposals X + 8000.  I can understand how product selection makes up for some of the difference, but not anywhere near $8000.

If a person with no psychological issues walks onto the freeway at rush hour and expects not to get hurt, then he must shoulder the responsibility of his actions. Other than that, no one deserves to get hurt.  We as contractors have a measure of responsibility to educate consumers about the pitfalls of “home improvement porn”.  I don’t believe most consumers truly understand what we understand.

I missed cheese's licensing comment--he has no license with the AHJ, no insurance, no bond. They did not get a permit to do the work. All of which she knew.

She had my spec's, simple enough to hand anyone else the page and have them price LKQ.

I have no sympathy for those who buy based on price. If there is that much difference in the price across the proposals you need to ask why.

There is not a single code violation in this job. Waterproofing except on the pan is not required in any of the model codes. There are the violations of local ordinance for the licensing and permits.

Very few consumers are open to the "education", Walmart drives the thinking of most.

She walked onto the expressway and got run over.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

I missed cheese's licensing comment--he has no license with the AHJ, no insurance, no bond. They did not get a permit to do the work. All of which she knew.

She had my spec's, simple enough to hand anyone else the page and have them price LKQ.

Well that certainly makes a difference. With no license, no insurance and no bond, this guy has nothing to lose. He's just free to knock on doors and hawk his wares. Kind of like the old western grifter working his way from town to town.  [eek]

So there's not too much a person can do to prevent this guy from praying on other victims. That's too bad... [mad]

And if your SIL did just hand your specs to the Grifter, shame on her...I guess she'll not be invited to Thanksgiving this year.  [big grin]