How square fence to table on CMS/

[Rick Christopherson]

The op never mentioned how far out of square the fence is.  What he did mention was that he never used the CMS to find out if it was a problem at all. 

The biggest problem about this, is that back when the CMS was beginning to show up with the dealers and everyone was making a video, these adjustments got way over shown and way over blown. They're not that important, not even when using a vertical cutter. A vertical router bit is going to deflect more than the fence is out of square with the table.

I anticipated this exact scenario, and that is why you won't even find them mentioned in the Supplemental manual. It wasn't an oversight.

 

[bmikl]

I did not start this post to report a "phantom" problem, hence this post is in the How To section. That is your perception of my post.  With no adjustment made to the nylon jack screws, the fence is out about a 1/16". I properly adjust the nylon screws to square the fence, when I move the fence to a different position it is out of square again. Whether or not I use these tools for a living has no bearing on my question. I own a machine shop for 25+ years so I am famailr with the mindset of working with tools and machines. I have every right to ask questions. I do not believe it is unresonable to expect the fence to maintain square after it is moved 1" from original position. Yes, I did measure the fence casting to check square and saw it was out by .040".  Why it is that way, I don't know. I have sent an email to my Festool rep. There may be a legatimate reason why they have designed the fence this way. I don't know but hope to find the answer. Can you explain what is meaning of "buying tool as a novelty"? Like most everyone else here, I have over $2200.00 invested in my setup, between the router and the table and I want to make sure things are right. I am not throwing stones at Festool. The reason for this post was to ask to the experianced members here whether or not this is correct.

 

[Brice Burrell]

My suggestion would be to square the fence when it is important for it to be square- let's say for vertical panel bits- and forget about it the rest of the time. I can't imagine a scenario where every single time you route it is a requirement to have a perfectly perpendicular fence.

No disrespect intended, but if it's important to the user that it be square all the time then perhaps there are more suitable router tables that aren't primarily intended to be portable and can be calibrated more easily.

Ha, this is how to politely articulate.  I suppose I could learn something from you sir....

 

[Brice Burrell]

I did not start this post to report a "phantom" problem, hence this post is in the How To section. That is your perception of my post.  With no adjustment made to the nylon jack screws, the fence is out about a 1/16". I properly adjust the nylon screws to square the fence, when I move the fence to a different position it is out of square again. Whether or not I use these tools for a living has no bearing on my question. I own a machine shop for 25+ years so I am famailr with the mindset of working with tools and machines. I have every right to ask questions. I do not believe it is unresonable to expect the fence to maintain square after it is moved 1" from original position. Yes, I did measure the fence casting to check square and saw it was out by .040".  Why it is that way, I don't know. I have sent an email to my Festool rep. There may be a legatimate reason why they have designed the fence this way. I don't know but hope to find the answer. Can you explain what is meaning of "buying tool as a novelty"? Like most everyone else here, I have over $2200.00 invested in my setup, between the router and the table and I want to make sure things are right. I am not throwing stones at Festool. The reason for this post was to ask to the experianced members here whether or not this is correct.

Sorry, I didn't intend to make it seem like I was attacking you in particular.  My replies were to membership as a whole. 

To address your situation specifically.  I think you may have shed some light on your perspective.  You own/owned a machine shop.  Machining metal and wood are generally down to very different tolerances.  You know that as well as I do.  I'd suggest you use the tool and see if it work for your needs first before you chase a potential phantom. 

I do have a question, when you corrected the fence to fix the 1/16" error, when you moved it, how far out of square was it then?  I'd guess nowhere near a 1/16".             

 

[Brice Burrell]

The op never mentioned how far out of square the fence is.  What he did mention was that he never used the CMS to find out if it was a problem at all.

The biggest problem about this, is that back when the CMS was beginning to show up with the dealers and everyone was making a video, these adjustments got way over shown and way over blown. They're not that important, not even when using a vertical cutter. A vertical router bit is going to deflect more than the fence is out of square with the table.

I anticipated this exact scenario, and that is why you won't even find them mentioned in the Supplemental manual. It wasn't an oversight.

Rick, from my personal experience, you're right on the money.  This is way overblown.

 

[greg mann]

I also wonder if the out-of-square condition is a lot less after the initial adjustment. Having spent my career as a 'machine shop guy' I also know that a minor amount of light passing through the square when checking these things looks a lot more significant to us than it does to most woodworkers. The .040" out of square in the fence itself sounds wierd, but I am not challenging the OP on that as I have yet to personally look a CMS over closely.

I do like the fact the OP titled his subject the way he did, instead of it sounding like a flame job, that we sometimes see: One which turns out to be a simple oversight by an OP, but in which the title lives forever.

 

[Nick C]

Whether the problem with the fence is a "phantom" depends on the task. A very common router table operation is milling a dovetail tenon along the edge of a board, for a sliding dovetail joint. The board must be guided along a reference surface that is perpendicular to the table, or the resulting joint will not fit properly. I use a shop-made MDF fence for this. The fence is 8" tall, and is attached to a pair of aluminum right-angles, which in turn are clamped to the table. I would not want to haul this jig, or many of the others I have made, to a job site. Festool emphasizes portability across its line, providing many workshop capabilities on the job site that would otherwise not be available at all. Portability depends on lightweight materials, like aluminum, which cannot offer the stability or the repeatable accuracy of cast iron. I think we all know this and accept it, but it is in no way inappropriate to measure or inquire about tolerances and repeatability. Otherwise, we learn what is "good enough" only by trial and error, which can be frustrating. In my opinion, if the fence that bmikl has cannot be adjusted and then maintain square to better than 1/16" he has a bad fence, or the adjustment process is inadequate. The deflection of a vertical router bit will be nowhere near 1/16." After adjustment, I would expect the fence to hold a tolerance of 1/128". I do agree that issues relating to tolerances, accuracy, and precision are often overblown on this site, but I do not believe that is the case here.

 

[Nigel]

The op never mentioned how far out of square the fence is.  What he did mention was that he never used the CMS to find out if it was a problem at all. 

The biggest problem about this, is that back when the CMS was beginning to show up with the dealers and everyone was making a video, these adjustments got way over shown and way over blown. They're not that important, not even when using a vertical cutter. A vertical router bit is going to deflect more than the fence is out of square with the table.

I anticipated this exact scenario, and that is why you won't even find them mentioned in the Supplemental manual. It wasn't an oversight.

Sorry have to disagree. My fence was well out of square and caused problems until I adjusted it. Once adjusted all was well. The screw adjusters are there for a reason.

 

[bmikl]

The biggest problem about this, is that back when the CMS was beginning to show up with the dealers and everyone was making a video, these adjustments got way over shown and way over blown. They're not that important, not even when using a vertical cutter. A vertical router bit is going to deflect more than the fence is out of square with the table.

I anticipated this exact scenario, and that is why you won't even find them mentioned in the Supplemental manual. It wasn't an oversight............

Your posts suggests that instructions that explain how to square the fence to the table is not conveyed to the customer on purpose is disturbing.

 

[bmikl]

Rick, I'm not sure I understand your post. I've read all that I could find about the router table but don't see anything about the fence being adjusted square. I think this thread has gone far enough for me. All I want to know by posting here is can I move the fence without having to square it up each time I move it. As far as whether or not it is not important in using a router table, I would like to make that decision for myself. That's all I want to know.
Thanks

 

[galwaydude18@gmail.com]

Why don't you just try it out and see what the results are for yourself?

 

[bmikl]

OK, thanks for the help.

 

[Sparktrician]

I'll have to note that I had the same issue with mine, and I finally did get the movable (infeed) fence pretty much perpendicular by using the two nylon screws with a good square and a straightedge to make sure that the fences were aligned properly.  I would add that neither the infeed nor the outfeed fences are truly flat, being bowed no more than 1/32" to the rear (concave).  That ~1/32" won't amount to a hill of hot air in the big scheme of things and is far less annoying than having the infeed fence out of perpendicular and skewed slightly from the outfeed fence. 

And frankly, I don't think the OP deserved a slap in the chops for asking a legitimate question.  [2cents]

 

[Rocky]

Sometimes things like that scare new woodworkers away.  You're right wasn't call for.

 

[semenza]

That is about enough of the snippy , short replies. The OP has a legitimate concern with the fence. I am sure help is welcome , but without all the "I'm right , your wrong, it doesn't matter, etc, etc" garbage. Further unfriendliness  will be removed.

Seth

 

[sancho57]

The op never mentioned how far out of square the fence is.  What he did mention was that he never used the CMS to find out if it was a problem at all.

The biggest problem about this, is that back when the CMS was beginning to show up with the dealers and everyone was making a video, these adjustments got way over shown and way over blown. They're not that important, not even when using a vertical cutter. A vertical router bit is going to deflect more than the fence is out of square with the table.

I anticipated this exact scenario, and that is why you won't even find them mentioned in the Supplemental manual. It wasn't an oversight.

Rick, from my personal experience, you're right on the money.  This is way overblown.

I concurr. The CMS is a gold plated cadillac compared to some of the router tables I used/ owned.