How to Install Free-standing Cabinet Drawer for Kitchen Office

[Grasshopper]

I am putting my kitchen back together in preparation for my island build.  All the perimeter cabinets are production grade (lots of veneered particle board…sigh), and will be painted white.

I tore out a 39" base cabinet so I can replace it with a 12" cabinet and freestanding drawer for a desk area.  Last year, I had ordered a replacement, which was the same brand as my perimeter cabinets.  I'm not impressed with the quality, but oh well.

Installing the 12" base cabinet is pretty straightforward, my question is how do I install the drawer (the top will be a 40" x 25" slab of granite).  I've tried to search the web and don't see any descriptions, instructions, or tutorials for how to do this.

The 12" base will be to the left, and there is a wall that will snug up on the right side of the drawer.

I was thinking of installing a 2x4 cleat behind the base cabinet and drawer, and on the right side along the wall (to support the granite slab).  I have no idea how to mount the drawer on the right and left side, and especially to support granite (I'd obviously screw into the 1/2" ply on the back into studs).  Another thought was to place a 1/2" sheet of plywood 24"x39" on top of the cleat (and resting on the base cabinet, with the drawer mounted to it from below, for the slab to sit on top of.

Advice appreciated.

Here are some pix:

Help me turn-

(Picture of desk unit unassembled)
[attachimg=1]

(closeup of drawer unit)
[attachimg=2]

(closeup of drawer face frame)
[attachimg=3]

(Desired result)
[attachimg=4]

I appreciate your feedback.

 

[mastercabman]

You just need to secure the pencil drawer to the drawer base thru the stile of the base cabinet with 2.5" screws and on the right side you can secure it to a cleat attached to the wall
The way I do it is install the base cabinet then cleat the right wall level with the base cab
Cut the cleat 3/4" shorter than the depth of the drawer
Make sure that the cleat is really secured to the wall
The cleat is going to hold the weight on that side

 

[nclemmons]

Here's a drawing that shows how I might approach it.

Hope this makes sense.  Green is 1x4 stock that would carry the drawer frame.

You could use pocket screws or a domino to hold the pieces together and to the front rail.

I'd screw from the inside of the drawer unit to that frame since the screws will hold better in pine or poplar than they would in the particleboard.

Hope that this is clear -

neil

 

[tjbnwi]

What mastercab said, only thing I'll add is if you don't want to nail through the face into the cleat, drill a couple of Kreg holes in the front end of the cleat, screw through cleat into back of pencil drawer frame face.

Tom

 

[WastedP]

Rip two pieces of 2x stock to the width of the horizontal space from the edge of the wood faceframe to the particle board part of the carcass.  Cut the stock to the same length or just slightly shorter than the distance from the back of the faceframe to the back of the cabinet box. 

Predrill two holes from inside the drawer opening in the faceframe of the left cabinet so you can join it to the face frame of the drawer unit.  Lay both cabinets on their backs and join the faceframes with screws so the tops of the frames are flush.

Insert one piece of pre-cut stock into the void between the cabinets and flush it up to the tops of both boxes.  Clamp the sandwich of particleboard/2x/particleboard and run 1-1/4" screws from the particleboard sides into the solid stock from inside of both cabinets.

Transfer marks for the stud locations on the right-hand wall to the remaining piece of solid stock and drill some pocket holes at those locations.  Attach the solid stock to the right side of the desk drawer unit in a similar manner to left side.

>>edit:  I'm making the assumption that since the cabinets are the same brand, they will be the same depth.  If they are not, it's more likely that the desk drawer will need furring behind it, but the fronts of both faceframes need to be on the same plane or else your countertop overhangs will vary intolerably.

Now that you have joined both cabinets into a single unit, put them in place, level them out with shims, and screw them to the studs.  Use larger (probably 2-1/2") pocket screws to attach the right side to the wall.

I probably use too many screws, but i would use two vertically at every stud behind the desk drawer, and catch the top and bottom of the 12" cab.  When I can angle one through the toe kick into the floor, I do.  When there is in-floor heating, I can't.  When the floor is concrete, I mark the toe kick location on the floor and Tapcon a 2x block behind the toe kick, then screw into that.

 

[Grasshopper]

Awesome responses. I sincerely appreciate the tips and time you all took to answer my question. I hope to get this installed this week.

 

[nclemmons]

Good luck - Please share back photos on how you executed the install!

neil

 

[Grasshopper]

With my island now built (for the most part), I hope to get started doing this today!

Good luck - Please share back photos on how you executed the install!

neil

 

[Grasshopper]

OK,  I owe the FOG a status report.  So I was all set to install this and it just felt wrong to mount this particle board ridden prefab desk and drawer so I ran to the lumberyard and purchased a half sheet of 3/4" birch ply and a half sheet of 1/2" baltic birch.  I figured, "hey, I'm already installing this, why not rebuild too ".

Anyway, now that I am looking at a clean slate, I am considering going a little deeper, say 23" or even counter depth at 24".  Is there any reason I should stick with the 21" depth of the "typical desk depth"?  Any reasons to avoid a deeper desk depth like say 23" or 24" at the most?

The wall comes out 25 3/4", so that isn't a factor.  I'll probably have a counter depth fridge on the left side of this desk.

Decisions, decisions….

 

[Grasshopper]

OK,

So I have roughed out some design ideas to get this rolling.

Thanks to your earlier ideas, I have designed the desk accordingly.

The overall width will be 39 1/4" (cabinet 12", pencil drawer 27 1/4") to fit within the space.  Faceframe on the cabinet will be 1x poplar, and sides will be 3/4" birch ply.  All drawers will be 1/2" baltic birch.

The yellow boards are highlight to show a 1x4 poplar cleat that will be mounted to the wall along the back, and two 2x4 poplar cleats for the sides. (the right hand side will be mounted to the wall into studs prior to installation.  The left one will be installed onto the 12" cabinet.  The plan will be to run two pocket screws one on the top of the 2x4 and one on the bottom, driven into the back of the face frame on the front of both the left hand side and the right hand side where the pencil drawer is mounted).  There is a 3/8" void that runs to either side of my pencil drawer, that I thought about making 2 or 3 small 3/8" x 2" x 4" blocks I could use as shims where I could drive screws from inside the drawer box into the 2x4's on either side for extra support.

The 12" cab will be built to completion and the pencil drawer frame separately.  I'll join them together at installation.

As all face frame joinery will be 6x40mm dominos, I was also thinking about attaching the face frame of the pencil drawer to the face frame of the 12" cab with a couple dominos to aid alignment (and not screw them together).

Does this sound like a solid plan?

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

 

[nclemmons]

I think I would keep the kneehole drawer width consistent with the two sides.  It looks like you are dropping them down on either side of the drawer, but I think it might look better to have that a consistent width across, perhaps only the width of the drawer if you are worried about knee / leg room.

Are you mounting the drawer runners to the yellow boards or to the rear?  It appears the way you have drawn it that the drawer will not open as it is wider than the opening in front, so not sure what you are showing with that design detail.

If the side wall is square, you can run the runners on it.  If not, you may need to run them all the way to the back wall.  I would check to make sure the wall is square before you get too far in the design process and realize the drawer will bind if things are not parallel and square.

Finally, you seem to be running the horizontal strip across the back behind the drawer cabinet.  What closes the left hand side of the drawer unit so you don't see that strip exposed on the left side of the unit?  I would probably stop that at the right edge of the drawer unit.  No need to go all the way across the back of the drawer unit.

neil

 

[WastedP]

This is strictly my two cents here.  Your drawing shows a design that is a copy of a modular cabinet design.  Since you are building this unit from scratch, maybe building a single unit would look better and eliminate the klunkiness of the modular cabinet desk drawer design.  The cabinet and drawer could share the same stile for the right side of the cabinet/left side of the drawer.  Also, you wouldn't necessarily have to have the wide stiles that cabinet manufacturers use.  Mostly those are extended so they can make one SKU that can be modified in the field to adapt to conditions.  You're in control of production, and the conditions.

 

[Grasshopper]

Neilc,

Sorry for the confusion.  The initial drawing was just the frame, without drawers.

The knee-drawer would be flush on the bottom with the face-frame.  I will mount the slides on the sides.  The drop downs you saw in the original drawing were where the face frame drops down on the knee drawer face. 

Hopefully the updated photo makes more sense as I threw some simple drawer boxes in.

The drawers will mount to the boxes, and the boxes will mount to the "yellow" 2x4's and 1x4 upon installation. The yellow lumber will be mounted to the walls and will be the cleat and supports (the center yellow 2x4 is how I'd join the knee drawer to the cabinet, the right will go against the wall, with a 5/8" gap to compensate for a wall that isn't true, and the back yellow 1x4 will be the cleat to attach along the back).

Finally, to the left of this unit will be a fridge, so you will never see the back of the cabinet exposing the cleat.  I may add a small piece of trim to make it tidy and hide the cleat.

Does that make any more sense?

See updated photos below:

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

I think I would keep the kneehole drawer width consistent with the two sides.  It looks like you are dropping them down on either side of the drawer, but I think it might look better to have that a consistent width across, perhaps only the width of the drawer if you are worried about knee / leg room.

Are you mounting the drawer runners to the yellow boards or to the rear?  It appears the way you have drawn it that the drawer will not open as it is wider than the opening in front, so not sure what you are showing with that design detail.

If the side wall is square, you can run the runners on it.  If not, you may need to run them all the way to the back wall.  I would check to make sure the wall is square before you get too far in the design process and realize the drawer will bind if things are not parallel and square.

Finally, you seem to be running the horizontal strip across the back behind the drawer cabinet.  What closes the left hand side of the drawer unit so you don't see that strip exposed on the left side of the unit?  I would probably stop that at the right edge of the drawer unit.  No need to go all the way across the back of the drawer unit.

neil

 

[Grasshopper]

WastedP,

Thank you for your feedback.  Guilty as charged…I totally copied the modular version i already had.  I am pretty good at copying, but not very creative.  I'd love to see a better way to make this as a single unit.  I know I want it to be 22 1/4" deep,  28 1/2" tall, and 39 1/4" wide to fit the space.  I have already ordered a  custom door and two custom drawer fronts to match the rest of my kitchen, so I was trying to stay within the same openings (cab drawer 4.5" x 8.5", cab door 15" x 8.5", and knee drawer 3 1/4" x 21").

I'm totally open to a design that looks better, even if I need to order new sized panels to match different openings. 

It makes a ton of sense to design this as one unit and use the same stile across the top.  I'm just having a mental block

I'd love to see pictures of single units that I could model.

This is strictly my two cents here.  Your drawing shows a design that is a copy of a modular cabinet design.  Since you are building this unit from scratch, maybe building a single unit would look better and eliminate the klunkiness of the modular cabinet desk drawer design.  The cabinet and drawer could share the same stile for the right side of the cabinet/left side of the drawer.  Also, you wouldn't necessarily have to have the wide stiles that cabinet manufacturers use.  Mostly those are extended so they can make one SKU that can be modified in the field to adapt to conditions.  You're in control of production, and the conditions.

 

[bronco71]

Just a thought, but why not domino the back of the drawer faceframe to the cleats you are installing on the left and right of the drawer? Or even Domino the drawer unit faceframe to the cabinet faceframe before installing and putting it in as a unit?

Tons of options to secure those two pieces.  Even if you screw through the faceframe you said you are going to paint it right?  Just countersink and plug your screw holes, san and paint. 

Personally I would try to domino and glue it just cause I love that fricken tool ;D

 

[Grasshopper]

I plan to break down sheet goods later today.

Just thought I'd check and see if there was any feedback to the overall design or if I was missing anything before I commited to the plan I designed/copied from my modular desk.

 

[nclemmons]

I think I'd look at making the stiles on either side of the drawer to be the same width as those on the cabinet as one alternative exploration.

The other consideration is whether you do the entire drawer width as one piece and just make the drawer narrower with the front overhang to cover the interior frame on the sides.

Something about the wide stiles on either side of the drawer does not quite look right.  You only need a 1x4 piece on the wall and cabinet side on either side of the drawer so the stiles could be narrower and still work with drawer slides.

Hope you have not cut too far into he project before seeing this comment!

neil

 

[WastedP]

The constraint of the two opening widths (8.5" + 21" = 29.5") subtracted from the constraint of the overall width (39.25") leaves 9.75" of faceframe stile width.  Divide that by 3 if you share the center stile between openings, and you still have a really wide 3.25" stile everywhere.  I have to honestly say I'm not sure what to do with that.  The stiles would be too wide for me, but if you narrowed the stiles down to 1.5", you have a lot of room left over.  The only thing I can think of would be to make the two ends have a wider stile with fluting or some other detail.  Or possibly a 3x3 square leg that sits flush with the drawer fronts.  The right side leg or stile would run to the floor in either instance.  If I have time later in the day I will draw something up to explain.

 

[nclemmons]

Sorry -

What I was suggesting was to treat the right drawer as one unit with two stiles and the left pencil drawer as one unit with two stiles.  Just make the pencil drawer front wider and the four stiles a consistent width.

Not clear what you mean by the constraint of the opening widths.

You could do a beaded detail on the stiles.  Here's a photo as one suggestion on spacing...

[attachimg#]

Neil

 

[WastedP]

Not clear what you mean by the constraint of the opening widths.

You could do a beaded detail on the stiles. 

Neil

Grasshopper has doors and drawer fronts on order, so to match the overlay of the rest of the cabinets he has called out frame opening widths, as well as overall cabinet dimensions.  Those are the constraints. 

The beaded inset frames on the photo you attached look really good with the drawer fronts on those cabinets, like the drawer front is a center panel to the frame.  I'm not sure if that would work as well with the given doorstyle.

Sketching this on scrap paper, it occurred to me that the desk drawer is 5" high (without a lower frame rail) on a 28.5" high cabinet.  That leaves less than two feet of opening height for the knee space.  It also makes me rethink the notion that any stile or leg should run from floor to countertop on the right side, since it would reduce the width of the knee space.