HVLP for on site spraying

[tiralie]

Tim,
Did you get your leaky needle fixed?
Tom

Tom:
Yes thanks. Worked a charm.
Tim

 

[Jalvis]

You never know!......Some engi-nerd is unscrewing there Kapex to build a diagram and getting upset that there not green on the inside.

 

[CarolinaNomad]

I flip custom homes and do all the finish carpentry and interior painting, wainscoting, built-ins to kitchen cabinets.  Basically, I build one house every two years and sell it.  I have the Titan MMF 440.  It's great in that I can hook up a 5 gallon bucket and go to town to paint the walls, trim, doors, wainscoting and built-ins, well the entire house except items that require a finer finish IMO based on the little research I've done and no experience.  It's the finish that I'm concerned with.  I got the setup to a nice finish, but not a great finish.  It has a little bit of orange peel on vertical pieces, but not on horizontal pieces.  I was hoping to get cabinet grade finish.  Maybe I'm expecting too much of AAA or I haven't configured the system properly or will the Graco 395 would have been a better option?  I'm only saying that because of my lack of experience in spraying and so many people have recommended Graco.  I liked Scott's video of a built-in being sprayed with the Graco 395.

For the pieces requiring a finer finish ie kitchen cabinet doors, I have a X-Series II with PPS.  And it's great, but my 4 gallon air compressor runs out of air too quickly.  I'm hoping a pig air tank will help when I get to that stage again.  I'm debating on getting a larger compressor or going with the apollo 1050vr.  I'm a perfectionist and if I'm going to do the work, it better turn out looking great.

I took a spray class at McFadden's which has the CAT CPR H2O and the CAT CPR PPS being fed by the Bobcat pump and large air compressor.  The guns were great.  The PPS is awesome due the cleaning.  And the guns spits out the paint fast.  So your moving quite fast when spraying.  And can really lay done a thin coat nicely.  The large air compressor is a problem.  However, if buying a large air compressor is the way to go to get that top notch finish, then I'll work around it.  Also, the Bobcat pump, which I imagine is the same as the Kremlin and the other pump in that they don't use much paint to prime the system, about a coffee cup to paint.  The Titan MMF 440 uses about a quart of paint to get the system primed.

Questions:

1. Is the Titan MMF 440 as good as the Graco 395?  I can't see using a hvlp, fuji or apollo, to paint all the wainscoting, doors and trim of an entire 4000 sf house.  Or do I need to thin the product out more to get a finer finish with the Titan?
2.  Would a Pig air tank work with a 4 gallon air compressor?
3.  Or should I go with a large air compressor and let the movers worry about moving it around?
4.  Can I have the large air compressor downstairs and paint some built-ins on the second floor using a 100 lf line?
5.  Can a hvlp, fuji or apollo, produce the same quality as a gun needing 11 cfm?

 

[tjbnwi]

I could not find the Titan sprayer you list. Never used a Titan.

I've had issues with my Fugi if I'm using the pressure pot and had the pressure to high. The fluid blows past the air cap before it can be properly atomized. I don't recall having the problem with the 395, but I could see it happening if the pump pressure was to high or the tip was not matched to the fluid.

Thinning may be required, need more info about products.

I don't have the CAT gun as others here. I recall that the ones they use require 5 CFM.

Tom

 

[CarolinaNomad]

Tom, Sorry it is the Titan Multi-Finish 440. http://www.titantool.com/portal/us_multi_finish_400_en_titantool,,,352785.html

 

[tjbnwi]

I looked at the owners manual, my guess is you don't have it dialed in quite right. Pressure(s) and tip combination for the fluid can be elusive.

If you have sprayed over 50 gallons, tip tip could be worn also.

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

Questions:

1. Is the Titan MMF 440 as good as the Graco 395?  I can't see using a hvlp, fuji or apollo, to paint all the wainscoting, doors and trim of an entire 4000 sf house.  Or do I need to thin the product out more to get a finer finish with the Titan?

The Titan overall is just about as good as the 395. Their flow rates are very similar, a pump is a pump and a compressor is a compressor. The biggest difference is at the gun. I prefer the g40, but we can get the same results with the 440 as you see us getting with the 395. In our fortunate position as testers, we have both, as well as the Kremlins in house. You are correct that hvlp has its production limitations. The vid we posted recently doing the antique oak study with the Apollo 1050vr pushed the boundaries of how far we would take hvlp in production. Would have been faster with a 10.14, but its all good.

2.  Would a Pig air tank work with a 4 gallon air compressor?

We have had poor luck using anything less than about a 33 gal tank on anything related to needing an external air source. Don't skimp on air. But again, your 440 will do everything you are trying to do, you just dont know it yet.

3.  Or should I go with a large air compressor and let the movers worry about moving it around?

440.

4.  Can I have the large air compressor downstairs and paint some built-ins on the second floor using a 100 lf line?

440.

5.  Can a hvlp, fuji or apollo, produce the same quality as a gun needing 11 cfm?

I cant speak to fuji (Tom and Tim Raleigh can though), but the Apollo blows my mind. We are so impressed by it that we are building on its modular nature with pps.

But again, the 440 will do anything you need to do. Trust me on that, keep it simple, thats the whole purpose of aaa...the balance of production and quality.

If you continue to be twisted up by the 440, I do know of some workshops that will be coming available in '13 that would settle any aaa misunderstandings that you (or anyone) may have.

 

[Scott B.]

Here is a little 440 love for those who may be curious

 

[tjbnwi]

[wink] I don't know about that Titan, a lot of overspray on the camera lens at times ;D

From the of the description of the problem Carolina is having, ether the pump pressure is to high and the fluid is being blown out to quickly for the air cap to atomize it, or the compress is set to low for the air pressure to atomize the fluid. The tip could be to large to start the process also.

I'd start with a new 5-12 tip and adjust from there.

Fugi is a very nice unit.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

Questions:

1. Is the Titan MMF 440 as good as the Graco 395?  I can't see using a hvlp, fuji or apollo, to paint all the wainscoting, doors and trim of an entire 4000 sf house.  Or do I need to thin the product out more to get a finer finish with the Titan?
2.  Would a Pig air tank work with a 4 gallon air compressor?
3.  Or should I go with a large air compressor and let the movers worry about moving it around?
4.  Can I have the large air compressor downstairs and paint some built-ins on the second floor using a 100 lf line?
5.  Can a hvlp, fuji or apollo, produce the same quality as a gun needing 11 cfm?

1. Is the Titan MMF 440 as good as the Graco 395?  I can't see using a hvlp, fuji or apollo, to paint all the wainscoting, doors and trim of an entire 4000 sf house.  Or do I need to thin the product out more to get a finer finish with the Titan?

Sorry can't help you. I have no experience with the Titan machines.

2.  Would a Pig air tank work with a 4 gallon air compressor?

This will not work with a conventional gun that requires 10- 13 CFM. I have tried. Beside making the compressor work 100% of the time, the CFM sucks and the pressure is lame. If the gun has an HVLP cap set it'll need even more CFM. you could make it work with a gun that requires less CFM. Depends on the gun and what CFM you are getting at that gun with your compressor. Asturo and CA Technologies are the two manufactures that make a guns that can spray at low CFM and are designed to work with smaller 2hp. compressors. I have not tried my CAT (Lynx 100L) with heavier viscosity paints yet.

3.  Or should I go with a large air compressor and let the movers worry about moving it around?

If you can get access to 220-240 single phase and your movers don't mind you should be good to go.

4.  Can I have the large air compressor downstairs and paint some built-ins on the second floor using a 100 lf line?

Yes, I do this frequently. Most of the water in the line will run into the compressor tank as it's the lowest point in the line.
Make sure you drain it.

5.  Can a hvlp, fuji or apollo, produce the same quality as a gun needing 11 cfm?

Yes, but it depends on what you are spraying and who is spraying it. The advantage of turbine HVLP systems is they run warmer than compressed air systems which helps to evaporate water in water bourne coatings. Spraying water bourne lacquer, Scott and Tom can certainly produce much better quality with any one of the machines you list than I can.
I believe in this context, coating viscosity is the problem and higher tensile stress (pressure) overcomes the resistance of higher viscosity coatings not cfm.
Tim

 

[Scott B.]

[wink]I don't know about that Titan, a lot of overspray on the camera lens at times ;D

Tom

[big grin] Good one. Graco snob.

 

[CarolinaNomad]

Thanks for the reply guys.  I'm glad to here it's not the machine as much as it is me not knowing how to atomize the product.

Scott, I'll keep my eye out for those workshops.  I'm glad to see that the 440 was used for exterior latex.

Tom, thanks for explaining the possible problems with the contols.

Tim, I was getting hung up on needing a higher CFM as being the biggest factor in providing a high quality finish.  Would you mind if I stopped by your shop and talk business?

Now I just need to decide on purchasing an Apollo 1050vr or the fuji HVLP to spray clear coatings.  Considering I move around alot, the larger air compressor seems to be too much of a hassle, especially if I can obtain the same quality results.  That and the fact I don't want to use the 440 for both paint grade and clear coatings.

 

[tjbnwi]

Carolina,

Head on over to the Tools for Sale area. There's an Apollo up for grabs.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

Tim, I was getting hung up on needing a higher CFM as being the biggest factor in providing a high quality finish.  Would you mind if I stopped by your shop and talk business?

Sure anytime, I will send you a PM with my contact info.
Also wanted to ask about that set up at McFaddens. Did they explain why the CAT H20 guns were connected to a Bobcat pump and a compressor. Seems odd that they set it up in that configuration.
Tim

 

[CarolinaNomad]

Tim, I was getting hung up on needing a higher CFM as being the biggest factor in providing a high quality finish.  Would you mind if I stopped by your shop and talk business?

Sure anytime, I will send you a PM with my contact info.
Also wanted to ask about that set up at McFaddens. Did they explain why the CAT H20 guns were connected to a Bobcat pump and a compressor. Seems odd that they set it up in that configuration.
Tim

My memory is starting to fail.  The CPR H20 was connected to the compressor but was being feed by the PPS system, not the bobcat.  However, I think you can have it connected to the bobcat.  The gun needed a big air compressor something around 13 psi.

 

[tjbnwi]

The Fugi Q4. I don't edit anything.



Tom

 

[tiralie]

Nice demo Tom.
Tim

 

[peter halle]

+2.5!

Peter

 

[tjbnwi]

Thank you gentlemen.

Tom

 

[CarolinaNomad]

Great video!  Like the idea of the disposable table cloth/paper and the temporary spray booth.