HVLP for on site spraying

[ericbuggeln]

Tom, I think he was referring to using just a pot and a compressor? No turbine, is that possibly where the confusion is?

He claims this unit was made specifically to spray Benjamin Moore paint. I am gonna use pre cat lacquer or LenMar Ultra Laq bc my store stocks it and can tint it. Eric

 

[deepcreek]

The 1050vr is the Cadillac.  The ECO-5 is a Chevy.  They are both cars and may share some common components but they are not equal.

I would call Apollo and speak to someone there about your needs now (paint grade) and in the future (stain grade) to get their recommendation between these two machines.

The couple of times I've spoken with Apollo I had to leave a message but they called back within a few hours.

 

[ericbuggeln]

The guy at Apollo said unless I'm spraying really thin stain, I wouldn't need the adjustments that the 1050 VR has, plus he says I could use conversion varnish instead of the stain with the ECO 5. He says they are basically the same machine and no reason to over sell me. Eric

 

[tiralie]

For the how many umpteinth time in this thread...

LOL.

Tim appears to use Target EM6500. Both are cabinet grade products.

Yes Tom you are correct. I use most of the Target products. I also use General Finishes sealer, Dyes and stains and base as well as Mixol pigments for tinting EM6000 etc, etc etc.

I am gonna use pre cat lacquer or LenMar Ultra Laq bc my store stocks it and can tint it. Eric

Those are solvent based, make sure you have good ventilation, get a good mask, and safety goggles.

... I could use conversion varnish instead of the stain with the ECO 5.

I don't understand "instead"? Are you going to substitute conversion varnish for stain in your finishing schedule?

Tim

 

[Scott B.]

This is getting complicated to the point that I am getting confused.  [crying]

In all seriousness, to the group:

While I have met neither, by all indications over the past couple of years, in my opinion Tim Raleigh and Tom Bader are two of the most knowledgeable and competent spray technicians I have met on the internet. They "get it", at a very deep and successful level.

My professional advice to those just venturing into the realm of high level spraying is that you are not going to jump straight in at the level that these guys are at. I don't even fully "get" some of what they describe, because I have not done it the way they describe doing it. Intellectually, I completely believe that they both achieve very high level results, but it may not be the most immediately accessible route for the masses to take. I think either of them would tell you that what they share is gleaned from a lifetime of research, experience, trial and error. What works for them may not work for you. And I suspect some of it would not be comfortable for me, and Lord knows I try just about everything that involves pressurizing and dispensing liquid product.

The point I labor to make is that if you are entering the fine finish spraying arena, start simple, for your own sake. I have pushed my own self to near heart attack stress levels on real paid project spray tasks. The more you can simplify it for yourself, the better. For beginners, my recommendation would be to start with a simple, stock set up and learn product, process, technique and lay downs. From there, you can grow into the tweakier realm. The overwhelming majority of setups you see me do in videos are bone stock conventional over the counter stuff. For years and years, thats all we did. Starting with airless in the 90s, through everything that has evolved in the past 5 years, to finally going pneumatic in the past couple of years. All set ups are not created equal, and are not equally accessible. What sounds simple to Tim or Tom might have me pooping a pickle under pressure on a job. Start with a basic set up, master it. That makes it easier to master more complex setups going forward. There is no one size fits all. That is why I work with so many setups.

P.S.

I do have to say, with profound respect, if I could put two guys in my shop for a day to play with sprayers and pick brains apart, it would be Tim and Tom. And I know alot of guys with sprayers. But this stuff is like me, when I cross over into carpentry tools. You guys might recommend that I learn and master some simple Kreg jig joinery before purchasing a chain mortiser. Or something like that.

 

[peter halle]

Scott,  great post.

Painters and chain mortisers should not be in the same room.  [poke]

See you at JLC buddy!

Peter

 

[Scott B.]

Scott,  great post.

Painters and chain mortisers should not be in the same room.   [poke]

See you at JLC buddy!

Peter

Thanks Peter. I can't wait for Providence next week. We were in St Louis last week for our big paint industry expo, so we are totally in "that" mode. Looking forward to it.

Generally, I agree about chain mortisers. But we are working with kids alot these days, training vocational students in schools. We met up with a 17 year old who cut an entire timberframe entry solo with a chain mortiser, and walked us through his process step by step, complete with demo of dry fit of his joinery. Stunning. I had never seen such a thing. Moral of the story, never stop learning.

Back to spraying, it has become like musical instruments. The guitar to be specific. One of the easiest instruments to learn, one of the most difficult to master. And, a little knowledge can be very dangerous.

 

[peter halle]

Scott,

I just found out that a 5 in 1 with dijon mustard and grilled onions (yellow - not sweet) tastes good.  My foot was not available.

Peter

 

[mastercabman]

For all you pressure pot guys, I researched it fully and getting a huge compressor that I can't get out of the truck on my own or easily transport through someone's house was the big drawback. I also don't have room in my shop or basement for one of those behemoths.  We are gonna have to make do with a turbine unit.

For what its worth Jason the resident pro says that the JC10 is putting out half the cfm that he would recommend of a pressure pot set up. Eric

I think you are somewhat confuse about what compressor to use for a pressure pot.
If you decide to buy a HVLP turbine sprayer and want to use a pressure pot,you only need a small compressor to "PUSH" the fluid in the pot to the gun.The atomizing happens with the turbine motor.So you end up with 2 separate unit. 1 for air(turbine) and 1 for fluid(compressor).
Most cabinets/furniture shops uses spray guns that are run only by compressed air.No turbine.Some still uses conventional spray guns with or without a pressure pot.some uses a syphon cup on the gun or a gravity cup.Those spray guns are also available in HVLP but still need a good size compressor.
That is why Tom is trying to say that the jc10 is good enough for a pressure pot when working with a turbine style sprayer.
Does that help ?

 

[ericbuggeln]

That's what I thought, so there is still a chance I could supposedly buy a JC10 for finishing, but really use on trim work. That's what I really want. There's always next project, Eric

 

[tjbnwi]

This is getting complicated to the point that I am getting confused.  [crying]

Getting ???

I've have never been one to worry about doing anything. I always figured if I screwed it up I'd just fix it. Oh well lesson learned.
I think all the mind games one plays with ones self only holds you back. As I used to tell my kids, "you want that cut, there's the saw, if you cut something off we'll discuss what you did wrong". For some reason they don't agonize about doing things either, go figure.

If I worried about screwing things up, I would have never changed careers.

Thank you for the compliments.

Tom

 

[ericbuggeln]

I'm so confused ??? I keep flip flopping between the Eco 5 and 1050. Talking to Scott, who was amazing actually has me even more unclear.

It seems that I will definitely have to at least choose between bleeder or non bleeder gun. You guys have any advice?

Tom, I am gonna eventually gonna try out a pressure pot down the line. Not for any other reason then you were so enthusiastic about them, they gotta be cool. Eric

 

[tjbnwi]

I prefer non-bleed guns. Don't need any more noise than already exists.

Tom

 

[ericbuggeln]

Tom, that's great news bc I read the description of both and the non-bleeder appears to have way better features.

So after I get the turbine, I could say get a Bandit and hook it up to a JC10 and the turbine and have spraying gold? I love accessories as much as the next guy, Eric

 

[tjbnwi]

You won't need the pot until you have to spray at least a couple of gallons on a job.  The natural break of filling the cup can be a good thing.

Tom

 

[ericbuggeln]

Now my cabinet buddy who is a member of this forum, wants me to buy his 3 stage Apollo system from the early nineties. Don't have a product number, but if he tells me it will run I believe him. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should try to pick up this unit for cheap and learn on it and then get a big boy unit when I know what I'm doing. He says it was $2000 new and comes with 3 guns and multiple cups. It's been in storage in CT. Clearly not the sexy choice, but may be the responsible one? What would you guys do? Eric

 

[Michael Kellough]

I don't think a 3 stage turbine is strong enough to push acrylic paint and you only need one gun.

 

[tiralie]

While I have met neither, by all indications over the past couple of years, in my opinion Tim Raleigh and Tom Bader are two of the most knowledgeable and competent spray technicians I have met on the internet. They "get it", at a very deep and successful level.

Scott:
Thanks, I am sure I don't deserve such praise. I'll keep working on it.

You guys might recommend that I learn and master some simple Kreg jig joinery before purchasing a chain mortiser. Or something like that.

Not me, if you want to work with a chain mortiser I say get the best you can afford and go for it. [big grin] I have never understood the learn on cheap equipment theory. Shouldn't you learn on the best so you don't develop bad habits? Cheap equipment is for those who have mastered their craft.

Thanks again.
Tim

 

[ericbuggeln]

Well, I actually have the money in pocket now. I will be spraying the two vanities within three weeks.

While my buddies Apollo at $300 seems like a great deal, it's real cloudy if it can do what I want it to do??? It's also been sitting in storage.

The ECO 5 was recommended over the 1050 VR by the Apollo rep and the Apollo dealer, both of which would have benefited if I had bought the more expensive model. Scott has no experience with this model. The price point is exactly where my initial budget is . This model was designed specifically to spray water based coatings and has most of the same parts as the 1050 VR

The 1050 VR is the Cadillac, but would strain me financially.

Is the strain worth it or should I stick with the advice of the industry nerds?

I will probably only use this unit 10 times a year, but during those times I will expect glory from it

If Tom, Tim, DeepCreek could cast a vote it would be appreciated, Eric

 

[tiralie]

What would you guys do? Eric

Eric:
Everybody's situation is different.  Analysis paralysis has set in. You have enough information to make a decision.

When I get to the point where I am as undecided as you are, I do nothing.

It usually means I am either too tired or stressed to make a good decision.  

There are always alternatives, I am just too stubborn/blind to see them. If I have to make a decision, I write down my objectives as clearly as I understand them and write the pros and cons for each solution.

Sometimes I just have to put on my big boy pants and get on with it.

Running and managing a business is all about decision making. You glory in the good decisions and suffer the bad ones.

I have a vision for the type of business I want. I am prepared to sacrifice for it. That guides my decision making.

It's not easy paying bills on time, marketing and doing the work and having enough left over to support your family.

When the buck stops with you, sometimes the stress of being responsible for the all the decisions (good and bad) you make is too much.

Maybe your buddy with the 3 stage can spray the cabinets for you.
Tim