I DO miss my table saw at times

[HowardH]

A couple of years ago I made the commitment to save some space and go all Festool so I sold my table saw.  Most of the time it has worked out but when it comes to cutting for example drawer sides, fronts and backs, I am having trouble figuring out how to make exact repetitive pieces, especially ripping to width.  With the table saw, you only have set up the fence and start ripping away, every piece will be the exact same width.  Even crosscutting using a crosscut sled with a stop for the length is much easier.  I have an older MFT 1080 and removed the fence since I couldn't depend on it being a perfect 90 for crosscuts  [huh] [huh] so now I use the Qwas Dogs which gives me a square cut but no way to accurately repeat the same rip width.  There simply isn't enough room to the right of the guiderail to make a stop work.  If the board is less than 2 feet long, I use the dogs and my MFS 400 as a fence of sorts but it only works on short pieces not to mention the time it takes to set up.  What else do you do to make repetitive rip cuts?  Right now, I'm making a printer stand for my new office and I know I could have cut down at least 4-5 hours spent if I had a good table saw.  My top  and bottom are maple and required a glue up to make the panels the right size.  I ended up jointing one edge and then standing them on edge and running them through my planer to make them parallel for a square glue up.  [blink] There has to be an easier way. 

 

[mouppe]

Weren't the parallel guides invented for just such a need as yours? It sounds as if they would be perfect for you.

 

[HowardH]

I had a set of them. I ended up selling them.  It was such a hassle, for me at least, to set up each time I felt I needed 3 sets of hands to make them work properly.  They would work much better for cutting plywood panels repetitively but not so good at ripping boards.  Not that they didn't work for that, they do, but the amount of time it took and then you had to be careful about the board moving around and you had to clamp the thing down and after awhile I said forget it. 

 

[Wood_Junkie]

You might try getting some MFT dogs that have a threaded hole.  If you grind a touch off two sides of a 1/4"-20 hex bolt you can slide them into the underside of the MFT stock fence (which is sized for M6 bolts).  Get some cheap star knobs with the same threading and you can cinch down the MFT fence from under the table, so it doesn't budge at all.
I have found this very effective for creating a reliable fence on my 1080s that doesn't get accidentally knocked out of square.

If you were so inclined and equipped, you can order extra/replacement fences and span across multiple MFTs, creating a longer fence for longer workpieces.  Obviously alignment of the tables is crucial.

FYI, the huge drawback of this approach, and using the MFT fences, is that the stop flag is not usable for repetitive cutting.  The slot that the flag goes in would be face down, holding the 1/4" bolt!
I have been giving serious thought to taking the 1080, Inc. plunge and getting some various sized extrusions, for which I could then make some jig stops, etc.

As far as rip cuts go, I doubt you'll ever match the speed of a tablesaw for repeat production.  But, you can make it easier by gang cutting 2-3 pieces at once, as long as you clamp the rails and materials.

 

[Qwas]

I'm not following you when you say there is not enough room on the right of the guide rail. I know this won't be a popular answer but my first thought is to move the rail farther to the left, to the next set of holes. I know many guys don't like multiple kerfs in the table but this is one of the reasons I never worried about multiple kerfs.

Next thought is using a table or a saw horse with a stop. Set it up on the right to act as an extension to the MFT. You can try to secure it to the MFT or to the floor, but I've never had problems with it moving.

Instead of worrying about the right, how about we turn it and make  it on the left. Is it possible to reverse your setup so the stop will end up being needed to the left of the guide rail? Then you can measure from the right side of the guide rail across the rail and MFT. At the needed length, plop down a board and clamp it in place - instant work stop good for multiple cuts. Need the stop board to fairly precise? Stick a Qwas Dog in a hole close by near the top of the stop. Measure the distance between the dog and the stop board with a caliper. Move the Qwas Dog to a hole near the bottom of the stop board and adjust the stop for the same reading as the top.

Does any of that help?

 

[Qwas]

... now I use the Qwas Dogs which gives me a square cut but no way to accurately repeat the same rip width.  There simply isn't enough room to the right of the guiderail to make a stop work.  If the board is less than 2 feet long, I use the dogs and my MFS 400 as a fence of sorts but it only works on short pieces not to mention the time it takes to set up.  What else do you do to make repetitive rip cuts?  Right now, I'm making a printer stand for my new office and I know I could have cut down at least 4-5 hours spent if I had a good table saw.  My top  and bottom are maple and required a glue up to make the panels the right size.  I ended up jointing one edge and then standing them on edge and running them through my planer to make them parallel for a square glue up.  [blink] There has to be an easier way. 

I didn't understand the 2 feet before but I get it now, that's the max cutting width with the MFT. If you need just a few inches, try removing the front guide rail clamp. I found a small piece of 1/2" plywood that fits nicely (height wise) between the aluminum extrusion and MDF top. Make this piece longer than needed so you can put an alignment mark (or stop) on it to help keep the guide rail aligned.

If you need more than a few inches, then the guide rail has to rotate 90° and use the table longitudinally. If you don't want to move the guide rail clamps with it each time then you need my Rail Dogs.  [smile]

 

[Wood_Junkie]

If your floors are fairly level, these are a real winner paired with a MFT.  I use 'em all the time as side supports.  They're out-standing.   [eek]

Ridgid AC9933 Support Stand

Good support, not expensive, fold compactly, solid.  I have been using two for 3-4 years.

 

[Jesus Aleman]

Howard, have you tried using an INCRA jig or positioner on the left side of the rail to serve as a repeatable fence?

JGA.

 

[HowardH]

I'm not following you when you say there is not enough room on the right of the guide rail. I know this won't be a popular answer but my first thought is to move the rail farther to the left, to the next set of holes. I know many guys don't like multiple kerfs in the table but this is one of the reasons I never worried about multiple kerfs.

I suppose I could move it down towards the middle a bit.  However, let's say you are cross cutting a 8' board.  I normally use the table as it's main support so I typically measure from the right side which means I have to allow for the kerf or else everything would be short by the width of the kerf.  I would have to devise something that could be attached to the right side of the mft that could support the board so I can cut exactly on the line or set up a stop to the left of the guiderail.  Either that or simply move the guiderail and front rail support most of the way down to the left so the table is supporting the workpiece to the right of the guiderail instead of the left.  Your dogs make it a lot easier to re-square! [big grin] Then I could measure from the left side and cut exactly on the line as it's designed.  It still doesn't solve my repeated, parallel rip cut issue.  I'll have to re-look at your rail dogs to see how that works.   Have you noticed that this entire discussion is about how to use workarounds for something that would be a non-issue with a good table saw?  Don't get me wrong, I love my Festools but sometimes a more mainstream approach simply works better.  

Howard, have you tried using an INCRA jig or positioner on the left side of the rail to serve as a repeatable fence?

JGA.

I use a Jointech system on my router table so I am familiar on how well these incremental positioners work.  How do you attach it to the table so it stays secure?

 

[Warrior]

Why do people get the notion that the Festool saws are tablesaw replacements? Isnt the festool motto "faster, easier, smarter"?

Trying to go to an all festool shop with no tablesaw IMO is slower, harder, and dumber.

I do love my festools, they supplement the workhorses of my shop which are my tablesaw, bandsaw, and jointer/planer. No way would I give up my stationary workhorses. I tried going with the festool ts for cutting of cabinet parts and found it less efficient than tablesaw and crosscut sled.

I use my TS75 for straight lining rough stock, cutting of panels larger than my tablesaw capacity(20' long miter joints anyone?). I have gone from a 52" fence on the tablesaw to a 30" fence significantly reducing the foot print of the tablesaw.

 

[Deansocial]

ive said before that the ts saw are no table saw replacment and got shot down for it.

It just isn't, tablesaw are just faster at alot of task's

 

[justinmcf]

i agree with eiji and dean.

there is no need to re-invent the wheel.
the wheel works pretty good as it is.

i would never give up a table saw and depend on the ts-55 and parallel guides.

do you self a favour and buy a reasonably priced tablesaw.

justin.

 

[Roseland]

Although I have one, I don't like a table saw and avoid using it whenever possible.

Most of what I do is in 1/2" or 3/4" ply or MDF, so it was easy to make a jig to hold the rail over thin strips.  The jig is simply a piece of MDF with a strip 7" wide (the width of the rails) of either 1/2" or 3/4" ply screwed to it.  I previously posted a photo of it at:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/ripping-jig/msg117172/#msg117172

It works a treat.

Andrew

 

[AlexThePalex]

I wouldn't want to be without a table saw either.

 

[meldgaard]

I wouldn't want to be without a table saw either.

No - But with the Precisio TS and Festool isnt a contradiction  ;D

 

[spikfot]

I wouldn't want to be without a table saw either.

No - But with the Precisio TS and Festool isnt a contradiction  ;D

Agreed, I own 8.5+ meters of guiderail for my saws, but the Precisio CS70 makes life easy. After I acquired it, I immediately sold the Electra Beckum 350mm TS I owned.
You gotta love a saw with it's own intake filter...

 

[AlexThePalex]

I wouldn't want to be without a table saw either.

No - But with the Precisio TS and Festool isnt a contradiction  ;D

Yeah, I know  [smile] but the point here is all the talk about a plunge saw + guide rail vs a table saw. If I didn't have the Precisio I would have another one. I already have a good DW circular saw that I like very much but if I hadn't I would get a TS55 or TS75 right away (or better yet, the Mafell which is rumoured to be a lot better). To be truly effective I'd say it's not either this or that, but both because they complement each other.

 

[bijeshj]

A couple of years ago I made the commitment to save some space and go all Festool so I sold my table saw.  Most of the time it has worked out but when it comes to cutting for example drawer sides, fronts and backs, I am having trouble figuring out how to make exact repetitive pieces, especially ripping to width.  With the table saw, you only have set up the fence and start ripping away, every piece will be the exact same width.  Even crosscutting using a crosscut sled with a stop for the length is much easier.  I have an older MFT 1080 and removed the fence since I couldn't depend on it being a perfect 90 for crosscuts   [huh] [huh] so now I use the Qwas Dogs which gives me a square cut but no way to accurately repeat the same rip width.  There simply isn't enough room to the right of the guiderail to make a stop work.  If the board is less than 2 feet long, I use the dogs and my MFS 400 as a fence of sorts but it only works on short pieces not to mention the time it takes to set up.  What else do you do to make repetitive rip cuts?  Right now, I'm making a printer stand for my new office and I know I could have cut down at least 4-5 hours spent if I had a good table saw.  My top  and bottom are maple and required a glue up to make the panels the right size.  I ended up jointing one edge and then standing them on edge and running them through my planer to make them parallel for a square glue up.  [blink] There has to be an easier way. 

I am not a professional but I finally got a sliding table saw (any saw will do) after using only festools. I still have all my festools but the table saw and the festools do complement each other

 

[Ted Miller]

All of my festool items have just made my work go faster and easier.

Not one festool has replaced any other tool I have.

I just grab the right tool for that job I need at that time, doesn't matter who the manufacturer of that tool is.

Even owning the domino I still use my plate jointer as well...

 

[BobKovacs]

I can't imagine getting rid of my table saw completely just because I have a TS55, parallel guides and an MFT.  There are definitely some tasks that are easier to do with those tools than with the table saw- like breaking down sheet goods, but there are also tasks where a table saw just makes more sense. 

I recently had a few dozen pieces of 1x6 that varied from 18-24" long that needed to be ripped down to 4 1/4" wide.  Of course, I could have set up the parallel guides and done each cut with that, or set a stop up on the MFT, but by the time I got that set up, I could have had 1/2 of the pieces through the table saw already, and would have had the other 1/2 done in the time it would take to cut 2 or 3 pieces with the Festool setup. 

Now, did I have the perfect, splinter-free cuts that the guide rails would have given?  No, but they were pretty close to perfect, and more than adequate for the application, since the edges were getting rounded over anyway.

Did I end up with the minimal amount of dust that the Festool setup would have provided?  No, but seeing how I was setup outside and had a shopvac attached to the saw, the mess wasn't too bad, and wasn't really relevant.

Buying a bunch of Festool stuff doesn't mean you've got to abandon everything else and figure out crafty ways to make the Festools do everything.