I just came across the Kreg MortiseMate (Domino knockoff)

[Packard]

I just came across the Kreg MortiseMate, a knock off of the Domino.  More accurately, a knock off of some home-grown mortising machines.

My observation:

1.  Cheaper.  $300.00 vs $1,700.00
2.  Slower to use.  From the videos it appears to be much slower to use.
3.  Have to bring the work to the jig.  For larger pieces, you cannot bring the jig to the workpiece, a huge disadvantage. 
4.  Kreg designs are typically well-thought out and competent.

I have a Porter-Cable pocket hole jig.  An excellent piece of equipment. More efficient and sturdy than others I have seen.  But it is big, bulky, heavy and has provisions for permanently mounting on a bench (or better) on a wall.  I had to buy a small Kreg jig to use for applications where I could not bring the parts to the jig.  The MortiseMate seems to suffer the same disadvantage.

It is not clear to me if it can use the standard Dominoes or if Kreg-specific tenons are required. 

It is interesting.  Kreg has a very wide exposure in the retail environment.  I suspect it will do well based on the price and the Kreg name.  It does not seem like a replacement for the Domino machine however.

 

[ChuckM]

A more correct comparison is not with the DF but with this:https://jessem.ca/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system

I read somewhere that JessEm assisted in the development of the Kreg's mortise jig.

 

[Packard]

I have a Delta mortising machine and a Delta tenon jig (for the table saw).  The two least used pieces of equipment that I own.

Slow to use, and ceiling height limits the tenon pieces to about 40” long.  An ill-advised (twice) purchase.

 

[ChuckM]

I also had the Delta benchtop mortising machine, but sold it as well as the biscuit joiner as soon as I became proficient with the Domino Joiner. The consideration to sell was less to do with money but more to do with space and lack of use. Because of the DF, I have also lowered the usage of the table saw dado cutter by 95%, if not more. Since my Kapex can do trench cuts, I might also be selling the dado cutter one day.

 

[smorgasbord]

I'm sure we've discussed these domino mortise makers before. There are all sorts of jig, these use a dill, others use a router.

What they all miss is that the important aspect of the Domino isn't the mortise, but the ease and accuracy of making it.

For joints, if you're going through all the trouble to set up and align these slot cutting jigs, not to mention the multiple passes you're making, you might as well just get a good doweling jig. The doweling jig will be easier to use, accurate, and dowel joints are arguably as strong as a Domino joints.

The Domino, like the biscuit joiner, introduces one axis of small freedom that reduces the need for extreme accuracy in all dimensions that doweling requires. Again, the whole point is to make cutting the joints faster and easier. If you've got some complex jig you need to set up and then take multiple passes, etc., you might as well just cut a dowel joint accurately and be done. Plenty of great jigs for that.

For me, the beauty of the Domino lies in the standard width slots, the quick Tight/Loose settings, the adjustable fence offset with repeatable stops,  the paddles/cross stops, and the centering markings on the base. None of these Domino replacements offer those in an as easy to use fashion, so there's really no point in trying to make slots for dominos using some Rube Goldberg contraption.

And there other uses for the Domino, of course, but again, that's making use of a tool you already own, not a main reason to buy the thing.

 

[Packard]

I think the price and the name “Kreg” will get them some business.  If it does, then I see a Domino machine look alike in Kreg’s future.

I used to use dados for all my cabinets until I read that the dado itself offered almost zero structure (racking).  That was what lead me away from dadoes. 

When I used dadoes, I liked them to have zero slop, which meant long-ish setups as the thickness of plywood is surprisingly vague.

And I never found a router bit that gave a good fit on standard 3/4” nominal plywood.

 

[woodferret]

Sloppy AF

So bad, the reviewer actually recommends a out of production product (Jessem) instead

 

[smorgasbord]

So bad, the reviewer actually recommends a out of production product (Jessem) instead

I still see it on Jessem's site, or is this a different product/version?
https://jessem.com/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system

 

[ChuckM]

Sloppy AF

So bad, the reviewer actually recommends a out of production product (Jessem) instead

Although I didn't watch the video, any clips that carry the "Domino Joiner Killer" title or the like suggest that the clips are baits for clicks. The truth is that there exist no killers for the DF (at least for now). Content makers know how great the Domino Joiner is as a joinery tool as well as how expensive it seems to be for a lot of woodworkers. When someone says they find a DF killer, people listen and ... click (only to find out what really gets killed is their time  [tongue]).

 

[luvmytoolz]

To me these "Domino Killers" are akin to the treadle lathe compared to a modern lathe. Less efficient and clumsy in operation with sloppy results judging by the video.

Although admittedly the treadle lathe does have some historic nostalgia to them, I still wouldn't want to use one for any substantial project.

 

[festal]

Sloppy AF

So bad, the reviewer actually recommends a out of production product (Jessem) instead

Although I didn't watch the video, any clips that carry the "Domino Joiner Killer" title or the like suggest that the clips are baits for clicks. The truth is that there exist no killers for the DF (at least for now). Content makers know how great the Domino Joiner is as a joinery tool as well as how expensive it seems to be for a lot of woodworkers. When someone says they find a DF killer, people listen and ... click (only to find out what really gets killed is their time  [tongue]).

Reason you are seeing these flashy titles and thumbnails is creator's way to make people watch videos   thats all it is.  The only one i can think of as competition to domino is Lamello Zeta P2 and it also gives you locking connectors

 

[ChuckM]

Yeah. Flashy or unconventional titles or banners are part of the marketing game. But when some of them overuse them, they can be driving potential viewers, especially those who get tired of the title gimmicks away. When a content maker does that enough, viewers are not dumb and will instantly recognize what not to fall for -- again when a new clip comes out.

 

[woodferret]

So bad, the reviewer actually recommends a out of production product (Jessem) instead

I still see it on Jessem's site, or is this a different product/version?
https://jessem.com/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system

Nah, that's the one.  They say it's going to be 'phased out'... which to my ears says they're not in production anymore and will sell all that there is, and be done.

 

[Packard]

Sloppy AF

So bad, the reviewer actually recommends a out of production product (Jessem) instead

Although I didn't watch the video, any clips that carry the "Domino Joiner Killer" title or the like suggest that the clips are baits for clicks. The truth is that there exist no killers for the DF (at least for now). Content makers know how great the Domino Joiner is as a joinery tool as well as how expensive it seems to be for a lot of woodworkers. When someone says they find a DF killer, people listen and ... click (only to find out what really gets killed is their time  [tongue]).

Reason you are seeing these flashy titles and thumbnails is creator's way to make people watch videos   thats all it is.  The only one i can think of as competition to domino is Lamello Zeta P2 and it also gives you locking connectors

My understanding is the Lamello connectors, like the connectors I linked above are not structural. They just pull panels together. 

On the other hand, tenons, loose tenons, dowels, dominoes, the lowly Beadlock, etc., all add structure in addition to keeping panels together. 

Addendum:  I would add pocket-hole joinery to the list of products that pull pieces together but add little or no structure on their own.

I built a screen door entirely using Beadlock fasteners about 10 years ago.  It is still solid.  It was tedious to use.

Kreg nibbled at the track saw business with various panel cutting devices until they finally came out with their own tracksaw and track.  I assume they are competent. 

If they continue to follow that pattern, they will have a Dominoe-type machine in the next couple of years.  I read this as a toe-in-the-water move for Kreg.

 

[ChuckM]

Every DF owner I know uses their machine to build furniture and cabinets. This is the first time I saw it used in stairs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/comments/1foxhf4/domino_joiner/

Any Domino killers capable of doing it as efficiently? [big grin]

 

[Packard]

Every DF owner I know uses their machine to build furniture and cabinets. This is the first time I saw it used in stairs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/comments/1foxhf4/domino_joiner/

Any Domino killers capable of doing it as efficiently? [big grin]

No.  But I suspect a single 1/2” diameter dowel would be just as quick and sufficiently strong for this application. 

(But note, I’m a dowel-guy, so I might have a prejudice.)

 

[ChuckM]

That guy, with over 20 years of experience in his trade, builds stairs and other things for a living, and I trust that he must've used dowels in his work before using or switching to the domino machine for that particular application.

 

[ChuckM]

Nah, that's the one.  They say it's going to be 'phased out'... which to my ears says they're not in production anymore and will sell all that there is, and be done.

I can't locate the link or remember where exactly I saw something similar about JessEm helping Kreg in the tenon jig as it is discontinuing its own mill pro. I did notice that JessEm is reducing its prices on the mill pro and related jigs or accessories, perhaps not just for the BFS.

The cheaper Kreg version may sell more copies, but I can't see how it'd create a significant revenue stream for Kreg. Wait till the patents for the Domino machine expires, and Kreg may rethink about the future of this new product.

 

[Packard]

That guy, with over 20 years of experience in his trade, builds stairs and other things for a living, and I trust that he must've used dowels in his work before using or switching to the domino machine for that particular application.

Or his fall-back method is Dominoes just as my fall-back method is dowels. 

There are situations where Dominoes are a clear advantage.  This does not seem like one.  I think this is an either/or situation. 

 

[ChuckM]

No, not a fallback for him. He said in his other posts to his audience that he used the Domino machine often, and it was worth the money. It is easy to tell if one uses their particular tool frequently. This guy uses his DF with the speed square and tape markings without thinking. Only someone who uses their DF like an extension of their arm or hand would do that.

He has a bunch of other Festool tools including the Kapex.