I might be joining the club!

[Masiolli]

Hey guys! This is my first post, but I've been lurking for a while. I've learned so much about Festools and woodworking in general from this site so let me start with a big THANK YOU!

I teach elementary school and have been trying to come up with a way to allow my students to have some "woodworking" experiences. Over the course of the last few months I've been toying with some designs and I found my answer in Festool.

I've created a Kickstarter project in order to help me get the tools I need to make these kits for classrooms in elementary schools and daycares (and realistically, to build some things around the house as well). So I decided to make my first post here, one asking for help.

Check me and my brother's project out, support if you'd like, or just spread the word around. The success of this project will allow me to officially join the Festool club!

The purchase list if successful will look like this:

*TS55req w/ 3000 rail substitute
*MFT/3
*Parallel guide set
*Domino 500 set
*CT26
*like 20 boxes of Dominos

Thanks again for any help! I can't wait to officially taste the coolaid!

You can go to www.educationalwoodprojects.com and it will redirect you to the kickstarter page.

 

[Mauri Motti]

Welcome aboard!

I studied sculpture at an art academy and it was there I was introduced to Festools. When I graduated and needed tools on my own I knew whom to trust 

Good luck with your project!

Kind regards,
Mauri

 

[RKA]

Welcome to the FOG!  

Please forgive me for being critical, but when you ask for money to support an idea, I feel it's warranted.  What skills are you trying to foster with this project?  From a child's perspective, this (the assembly) appears no more complex than a jigsaw puzzle at a 3 year old's level coupled with the creative aspect you mentioned (coloring it).  Everything else is being done by you because you can't actually put a tool into their hands.  Given it's elementary purpose, I'm not understanding the justification for thousands in tools.

 

[MahalaHomecraft]

I have to agree with RKA.  I'm a professional contractor/semi-professional cabinet maker, and although I love what I do, because of several factors I decided a few years ago that I wanted to go back to school to become a math teacher.  Many of my professors have commented as to how my carpentry experience gives me a unique perspective and provides me with real world practical experience relating to directly to some of the things I'll be teaching.  So I think carpentry is a great addition to any classroom, not only for hands on experience, but also because it opens up a world of skills that every adult should have and sadly so many lack, insofar as maintaining the house a person lives in, etc.

Kindergarten is too young to teach children to use tools.  Even if the children were older and somehow you were allowed to put tools in their hands, they shouldn't start out with Festool.  They should start out with normal and learn how to appreciate quality so they don't take it for granted.

These tools aren't for them, they're for you.  And believe me, I know what it's like to crave Festool.  I have a little bit of an addiction and definitely spend more money on this stuff than I should, but all of the money I do spend on it is mine.

I think you have a good idea in your woodworking program, but I don't think it's justified to ask for all of that money so you can buy some really nice tools for yourself.

 

[Masiolli]

Thanks for the welcome Mauri!

I appreciate the criticism. I think it's good to get other peoples perspectives and thoughts. That's how we learn (that and from mistakes..) I can definitely see what you're talking about. Valid points.

This whole thing started with a small project that I did with my school age students over summer at daycare. We were learning about building things, but the extent of the actual building was reduced to paper and tape/glue. I asked if I was able to prepare some bird houses for them to build and that's when they said no nails or screws. The dowels worked and the kids enjoyed it more than I was expecting, but it took me almost a week to make 12 of them. It definitely is more of a creativity/craft project which is great because of all 12 I had, only 3 had ever painted anything wood. Several even told me it was cool because they never got to build anything before.

The tools are definitely overkill, but my garage is the workspace which got me interested in the track saw / mft set up. Currently I'm borrowing my dads $300 table saw which is being stored in my laundry room. Dust collection and space were the two biggest factors.

I work with kindergarten and younger, but they can still learn by following the plan, they enjoy the experience of putting it together, they get to experiment with different materials in art. It's a typical intro level project. The others I have found either come preassembled or require nails. At least with these, they get to put them together.

I hope that makes sense. Again, thanks for the critique!

 

[cje]

Wouldn't be something like Lego be a good alternative? My 3yo grandson likes it a lot.
His last 'project' was to build a house around his (1yo) sister so she couldn't get out [tongue]

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

A few years ago, I started a musical instrumental program an an inner NYC charter schoool.  I got all of the instruments donated from all over the country.  The instruments were donated to the school (a 501c3 non-profit) - and not to me. Anyone who wanted a tax credit rec'd a numbered tax voucher.

My father was a talented professional woodworker, welder, amd mechanic. He taught me how to use a screwdriver, hammer, and handsaw at about seven years old.  He wouldn't think of having me near a power tool.  Most kids are terrified of power tools.  

Do you intend on using them in the presence of the kids? Have you spoken to your own superiors of your intentions? Did the parents sign permission slips for this?

Me, being a New Yorker who has been hustled countless times,  read your request as a scam.  Your title is appropriate...you "might be joining the club."

 

[Tinker]

[welcome] to the club. You are looking at great tools and you have a great idea >>> BUT
Sorry to throw water on your fire.  

I think you are trying to interest goups of kids who are, for the most part, too small to handle the tools you are planning to use.  I am 39 years old (ask anybody here on the FOG  :) and i would not want a workbench any higher than the MFT/3.  The older 1080 and 600 work much better.  When cutting with my ATF 55, I don't think i could reach much further across than the /3.  It is quite wide enuf for me.  Of course my knees are much closer to my chin than with most people.  They are still considerably further away than any of your preschoolers, and even with most elementary school kids.  The TS 55R is considerably more weight than kids the ages you will be working with would be able to handle
 
When tools are too heavy, the reach is too far, and the work surface is over their heads, along with some other obstacles, you need to be thinking "legal backup."

I have worked with many kids of highschool age.  Out of a couple of dozen between ages of 16 to 19 or 20, there were no more than 3 or 4 out of the group that i would, or could, trust using power hand tools.  One of the group was my own son.  He grew up watching me use everything from handsaws to big excavators. When i decided he was ready to start using any tool, I laid out the limitations and safety issues in no uncertain terms. One little mistook and he was off the machine. (many tears ensued) If using hand tools, I made him go thru the motions time after time until he had the program indelibly imprinted in his head.  And then, i stood over him like a vulture until I could trust him alone.  I taught two other boys the same way. They wanted to learn and understood that I was teaching them to be not only skilled, but safe.  

Others who worked with me were not so eager, nor were they as serious about learning.  For them, the only tools they ended up using were lawn mowers, weed whackers, blowers and gardening tools.  Even then, if they were not serious about learning anything about tools, they usually did not last for long on any of my crews.  (Don't get me wrong here.  The very best crews I have had were when I was landscaping with 7 or 8 highschool kids.  They were all hustle and did great work.  Kids want to learn)

Your plan seems to be to take kids who are too young and of little or unknown experience and much to small to be able to do what you are trying to teach.  They could become either frustrated, or revert to the playfulness that comes natural to them.  I am with CJ'60. Teach them to use their imaginations and put them to work with Lego.  Of course, i might add that TINKER TOY  8) is a great starter to teach construction skills and to use their imaginations.

7th and 8th graders might be more interested and serious to learn.  And safety issues are more acceptable to their egos.  Younger, and I think power tools are out of the question for any groups.
Tinker

 

[Masiolli]

The children will absolutely NOT be near the tools, let alone be using them. They're 5. We aren't even allowed to use nails or screws in the class let alone power tools. These will be made off site and brought or sent to the classroom.

Legos are a great toy. I still enjoy them. The kids love them and we do use them for learning experiences during play time. This project would be a different experience for them. I understand it's hard to make woodworkers understand the value of such a simple project such as this, but the idea was created once I saw the response of my own class to it.

Again, thank you for the welcome, and critique!

 

[sfay]

This is a great idea.  I know some kids who could really benefit from finishing the drywall I'm installing and I think it would be very educational for them.  For this program I'm going to need a Planex and a CT 36 AC and an assortment of abrasives.  Anyone willing to support this purely educational experiment, please feel free to send me a check or money order. 

 

[peter halle]

Hey,  the OP has come here and posted an idea.  He is willing to hear thoughts and critiques.  Please make sure we stay polite.

Thanks.

Peter

 

[JJ Wavra]

I like the idea that you have for this program.  However, more research is needed on your part.  This list you have put together is of luxury items for your application and of even more importance I do not think the tools are a great fit for this project. You have listed large cutting application, ie 3000 rail, when the 1400 rail would be fine.  I see no reason to need an mft other than to clamp work to use the domino. Where is you miter saw, or table saw sled?  The prototype you show is with dowels, why not just get a nice doweling jig.  Buy a workmate to clamp to and a corded drill.  If you have a table saw then buy or make a straight edge and break down the sheet goods with a circular saw. Then to the table saw. Then to the miter saw.  All of this tooling could be had for less than $500.  Also, in your write up you say 1/2" ply and you are not using 4 mm tenons which are the only ones that will work, that makes me pause. I hope you are serious about this project and a salesman did a great job of selling you on the idea of these tools and not that you are looking for free tools.

 

[Runhard]

Hey guys! This is my first post, but I've been lurking for a while. I've learned so much about Festools and woodworking in general from this site so let me start with a big THANK YOU!

I teach elementary school and have been trying to come up with a way to allow my students to have some "woodworking" experiences. Over the course of the last few months I've been toying with some designs and I found my answer in Festool.

I've created a Kickstarter project in order to help me get the tools I need to make these kits for classrooms in elementary schools and daycares (and realistically, to build some things around the house as well). So I decided to make my first post here, one asking for help.

Check me and my brother's project out, support if you'd like, or just spread the word around. The success of this project will allow me to officially join the Festool club!

The purchase list if successful will look like this:

*TS55req w/ 3000 rail substitute
*MFT/3
*Parallel guide set
*Domino 500 set
*CT26
*like 20 boxes of Dominos

Thanks again for any help! I can't wait to officially taste the coolaid!

You can go to www.educationalwoodprojects.com and it will redirect you to the kickstarter page.

I think that you have a good idea to provide an educational, hands-on opportunity for the children you teach.  You could just build 12 bird houses using the dowels and let the kids play with them in the classroom. Why do you need to make hundreds of them? If you want the kids to build bird houses with Dominos instead of dowels, you could probably ask the FOG members to build some bird houses and send them to the school for the kids, I would do that. To ask for money to purchase Festools is overkill. You even state that you will be using them to build things around your house. I purchased my tools with my own hard earned money.

Daniel

 

[Masiolli]

Thanks Peter, I'm admittedly shocked with some of the responses. Not at all what I expected...

To answer the questions:
I don't recall mentioning domino sizes at any point, but if I said anything other than 4mm, it was a typo. That is what the prototype is using and what the final product will use as well.

The miter and table saws are my fathers that he lent to me. As mentioned, I was looking for compact design and great dust collection as my garage is the work space (we do park our cars in there). The mft would essentially replace both the miter and table saws.

The thought was to make these not just for my own class, but for many classrooms. Ideally offering classroom kits that daycares and youth centers could use, even with the strict regulations against sharp objects. If it were just the 12 I would make them all by hand, as I did.

Hope that answers your questions!

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Masioli,
Please supply a verifiable 501c3 ID number for your charity and then ask for donations.  If not, even if you think your intentions are genuine, any sober person will have a difficult time believing that you're not a grifter.  

 

[Vindingo]

Thanks Peter, I'm admittedly shocked with some of the responses. Not at all what I expected...

I think what rubs people the wrong way is that it seems as if you using the fact that you are a teacher to get people to buy you tools. You want to start a business to make birdhouses to sell to schools and day-cares. That's fine. You don't come out and say that though, and I think the marketing comes across as deceptive.   

If your intentions were to donate all of the birdhouses, then I misunderstood, but you should make that clear.  Donating the bird houses really changes the tune. 

If this is all for charity, there are other nail/screw-less bird house kits out there which include paint, a brush, and some rope.  It might be easier to have a fund raiser to purchase a bunch of those kits, or even contact the manufacturer to see if they will cut you a deal.

I understand it's hard to make woodworkers understand the value of such a simple project such as this, but the idea was created once I saw the response of my own class to it.

 
To be honest, I find this statement to be a bit contentious. Please don't patronize us.  If there is anyone who would see the value in a building project for a child, it would most certainly be a woodworker.  I bet most of us have fond memories of the first things we built.  We understand.