I'm about to go 'full-dip' - help a guy out...Kapex or Domino?

[RPSmith]

Howdy Everyone,

The Festool 'slippery slope' was more of a cliff for me.  I'm throwing all my profit from my last job plus my tax return into a the Festool starter package:

Festool Midi (with Dust Deputy Ultimate Kit)

TS 75 (with 55" LR32 Hole Guide Rail)

OL1400 Router (with LR32 Hole Drilling Kit)

MFT/3 Table (Deluxe Package with clamps)

additional blades, bags, clamps, connectors, splinter guards, rail stops, deflectors, etc.

The last piece of the puzzle is whether to get the Domino Kit (with fences and tenon/cutter kit) or the Kapex.

I am a finish carpenter whose been doing this for 18 years (and can't believe I just found out how good these tools are!).  I do a lot of on-site work (probably 80%) but also do projects in a shop.  These projects include furniture building and cabinet work for on-site delivery.  I'm lucky: the houses I work on are very high-end and all of these tools will see immediate use.  I realize the Domino opens up a whole new world (the bounds of which I am only starting to see), but the Kapex looks like one heck of a saw that will improve my day to day productivity immediately.

I already have a Makita LS1212 with extra blades and it has been my workhorse for a decade now.  It works fine...but then so did my worm-drive/router setup for cutting down doors...until I used a TS 75.

How versatile is the Domino and which tool do you see me getting my return on investment first?

Oh, and it's great to be here - I've been scanning this site for info for weeks, now and I'm happy to join such a dedicated and knowledgeable group.

 

[chrisrosenb]

I use the Kapex more than the Domino.
The dust collection is great when it is hooked up to a dust extractor & the quality of the cuts is better than any other miter saw I have ever used. 

 

[tiralie]

Hey RP:
While you will get lots of opinons on this, I think the Domino is the better choice. While you can use the Domino out of the box and produce excellent results, it takes a while to integrate into your work flow.
Like you I work on site installing, and I am not that comfortable taking the Kapex on site. For install cabinets and mill work I would rather have or take a Makita LS 0714. Ya the dust collection isn't as good as the Kapex, but it's not as bad as the Bosch stuff.
I find that I am way more comfortable with the Kapex on the Kapex MFT table. For me it puts the Kapex handle at a perfect height for quick, effortless cutting. The crown stops which I think work great. I need to buy another hold down clamp, and the Kapex extension sets.
You have a CMS now and while the Kapex is brilliant as far as dust collection, accuracy etc is concerned on site you may use your Makita more and leave the Kapex in the shop. Others have noted that hauling the Kapex around from site to site means that it sometimes needs to be reset.
You will of course buy the Kapex eventually (it's hard to resist) so flip a coin.
Tim

 

[RONWEN]

I'm not a contractor but IMHO the Domino will have a greater impact on how you work especially since you are happy with the Makita.  Having said that, if I were moving the saw from job to job constantly I may change my opinion.

 

[fritter63]

Howdy Everyone,

The Festool 'slippery slope' was more of a cliff for me.  I'm throwing all my profit from my last job plus my tax return into a the Festool starter package:

Well, you're in good company.

I've been  an "amateur" woodworker and luthier for over 20 years now, and I'm kinda kicking myself for all the times I walked past the Festool displays and said "I don't get it". Now I walk past my (covered) monster tablesaw and keep asking "What have you done for me lately?"

The main problem for me is looking at what, $15K worth of shop and wishing I hadn't bought all those tools for doing things that the Festool system makes easy. So here's my approach:

- I've prioritized my Festool want list based on functionality first. Ie, first I'm getting the Festools that let me do things I can't do with my current tools. The Domino is first on the list for obvious reasons, and I can "make do" with my Bosch sliding compound mitre for awhile.

- I've been scrimping pennies by being good about brown bagging my lunches. Everytime I'm good about not hitting fast food, I give myself $8 in my Festool account for buying more toys. So far to the tune of about $200+/month(the software industry is a notorious abuser of fast food!)

- I've been taking a hard look at the tools I have lying around the shop which only got used once and will probably never get used again, and selling them. The proceeds go to the Festool slush fund. Ex: That HD Milwaukee angle drill that I bought to do the electrical work in the my house, then realized I didn't have time for it and hired an electrician anyway, and that I used for just one day? Yeah, that's gone and sold.

That being said, even though it was down on my list, I couldn't resist picking up a barely used OF 1400 on eBay yesterday for $200 off retail. Now I'm in debt to my own Festool fund!

 

[gbruzze1]

I'd say go with the domino.  You already have a miter saw, and theres nothing else on the market that can compare to a domino.  Even if you have a biscuit joiner, you will quickly find it's very inferior to the domino.  

But then again, it probably also depends on the type of work you're gonna be doing.  I bought the domino last month because I had to build some cabinets and face frames.  I've been drooling over it for a few years and finally convinced myself that I needed it.  Like many say, not I wonder why I waited so long.  So if you're planning on doing a lot of joinery, box building, face frames...anything where alignment is critical...go with the domino.  If you're gonna be doing a lot of trim and working inside the house, go with the kapex.  Personally, I still have a DeWalt DW 708 (the old style 12" slider).  It's a beast to carry, which is my biggest gripe.  But with regular maintenance and periodic checks of the alignment, it suits my needs well.  The next time I can justify it, I will get a Makita 0714.  Better dust collection and much lighter and smaller, so the 0714 will travel with me and the DeWalt will stay at home until I need it.

Then again...you could always buy both and then you wouldn't have to worry about having regrets for not getting one or the other!

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I would say the Kapex.  I do pretty much exactly what you do and I still have not found a need to buy the Domino.

You could always sell off some never used tools and eventually fund the domino.

In all honesty, the domino is almost too slow for an onsite tool, the whole leaving something in clamps.

I really love my Kapex, it is a real work horse and I never have to mess with any of the settings.

 

[dsweetser]

The rail for your TS75 is to short to cross cut 4'. You need the FS1900.  Enjoy sliding down the slope!

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

The rail for your TS75 is to short to cross cut 4'. You need the FS1900.  Enjoy sliding down the slope!

The TS 75 comes with the 75" rail now and has for the past couple of years.

 

[woodnerd]

I don't own the Kapex, because every time I convince myself to get it I go play with it and talk myself out of it.

Forced to make a choice between the two, I have to go with the Domino.  The Kapex is a nice saw, but it *is* just another miter saw, albeit well-built/accurate/etc.  The Domino is unique, there's nothing else exactly like it out there and it can change the way you work.

The savings on getting a more-than-good-enough miter saw instead of the Kapex almost pays for the Domino.

On the other hand, if you decide to get both I'm sure nobody here will be offended ...

Now, please, understand I'm that I'm NOT knocking the Kapex.  If you'd like to donate one to me I'll be more than happy to take it  [big grin] But it always comes down to "Can I spend that $1400 in a better way than replacing my current Makita?"

 

[rxe]

Kapex is incremental, Domino is transformational.

I've had a domino for about 3 weeks now, and it has literally changed the way I work - and I'm only a hobbyist.  I have no idea how it is so accurate.  When I used a biscuit jointer, it was pretty good, but very easy to get it slightly mis-aligned.  For some reason with the Domino I'm just knocking holes in the wood, and everything lines up perfectly. 

If you have a workable SCMS, but the Kapex on the long list.

 

[bhendrix]

Welcome, RP!

OK, finish carpenter, 80% on-site, 20% in-shop, mostly high-end . . . .

Excellent choice with Festool.   Can't believe I didn't discover them sooner, too.

I would buy a larger dust extractor.  The extra suction from a CT26 (or re-conditioned 22/33) will serve you better with a Kapex or TS55/75 than the Midi.

A+ on the Ultimate Dust Deputy.

My go-to saw is the TS-55.  The 75 sits in its systainer most of the time.  The 55 is lighter and offers a better cut through plywood than the 75 (not that the 75 is bad by any means).  The 55 has almost twice as many teeth per second through material than the 75.

My go-to router is the 1010.  The 1400 is great, but the 1010 does everything I have asked for trim and cabinet work.  I think the only real benefit of the 1400 is if you have/need 1/2" bits.

I just finished trimming a project with 6" base and 6" crown and built-in cabinets.  I used both the Kapex and Domino extensively.  

I discovered we could join both the base and the crown using the domino.  I ended up with the best crown butt joints I've ever made - perfectly aligned and plenty of glue.  No more open joints.  Same with the base.  The domino was used for built-in case construction, too.

The Kapex, with crown stops, gave me the best miter joints I've ever had.  Coped with the Trion and ended with nice, tight joints.  The Bosch 5412 has been sold and not missed.

I would be hard-pressed to pick between the Domino and the Kapex for trim/finish.  I would have to have both.

Good luck on your journey!!!

 

[ajones]

If you do any first fix and built ins then it has to be the domino any half decent cms will chop a bit of wood up, but the domino is unique and will change the way you work.

get dominoed

 

[Holzhacker]

If you do the kind of work that will use a Domino, Domino all the way.
Forget the Kapex. Overpriced and Overrated. Unless you absolutely need the specific features of the Kapex, there doesn't seem to be much point to overpay for a product that has had problems and still seems to a bit.
You could buy the Domino with all the Acc and some various 'stuff' for about the price of a Kapex.
One of the things I really dislike about the Kapex (Yes I am a Kapex basher) is not only the initial saw outlay but then the high price of the add-ons. One can hit the $2000+ point real fast. That just seems like insanity to me for a chopsaw set-up. In fairness, if I were doing the amount of crown/trim that Dan R was/is doing I would have to consider the set-up.
For a chopsaw go with the Bosch or Makita. My Bosch is a monster but it works well for less than 1/2 the Kapex price.

 

[jonny round boy]

I own both  a Kapex and a Domino, and since you already have a SCMS, I'd say Domino. The Kapex won't do anything your Makita can't (it'll do it a bit better, but that's it!).

 

[mouppe]

Go with the Domino over the Kapex. And I would recommend a CT26 over the Midi vac.

Good luck and enjoy the tools!

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Welcome RP!  I think you have a good idea - the steeper the slope the better.  Everytime I get a new Festool I kick myself for not getting it sooner.

I love the Domino vs. Kapex question - how could there be a wrong answer?  And its fun to quibble over.

So here's my two cents worth...

If you are doing mortise and tenon or biscuit joinery now - just get the Domino, no need to think further.  It will make you so much more productive you will be able to buy that Kapex in a couple of jobs.  I build furniture, mainly chairs, and learned old school joinery - big fat long tenons, the bigger the better.  The Domino tenons are relatively small, but its a snap to double them side by side, making a wicked strong joint.  My current chair project is all domino joinery.  I'm taking the plunge, but the mock up is extremely sturdy.

Darcy has a good point about still needing to clamp with a Domino, but I would guess that if your work is mostly high-end you probably try to avoid pocket screws...

I will pile on to the crowd that holds that the Kapex doesn't really do anything unique, just a little better, faster, cleaner.  Personally, I think it was well worth the $$ to me for the time saved in cleanup and that smooth, precise bevel setter - even a hacker like me can dial in the right compound angles for chair joinery.

Spend some time reading the threads on the MFT/3 and MFT jigs - the MFT is way more than it seems at first glance!

Let us know what you decide and don't hesitate to ask questions here - there is a ton of stuff not in the manuals that will make your life easier!!

 

[AlexThePalex]

Go with the Domino over the Kapex. And I would recommend a CT26 over the Midi vac.

+1 on the Domino, it adds functionality you don't have yet.
+1 on the CT26, a larger vac is really better for carpenter work than a Midi.

 

[tiralie]

Go with the Domino over the Kapex. And I would recommend a CT26 over the Midi vac.

+1 on the Domino, it adds functionality you don't have yet.
+1 on the CT26, a larger vac is really better for carpenter work than a Midi.

Another vote for the 26. 
Here's a recent review if you haven't read it. Brilliant!
I don't have it yet but for the weight to performance ratio is right in my sweet spot. I have a big Bosch AirSweep.
Man that thing gets heavy hauling it around site to site.
Tim

 

[BobKovacs]

I mulled that same decision recently, and decided to buy both, since I'm not one for making hard decisions....lol.

Based on your happiness with the Makita, the Domino would probably be the better choice, provided that the type of work you do will have enough applications.  If you're mostly a running trim/basic casework guy, it might not have as much use for you.  The advantage to the Kapex would be the dust collection, which can be a selling point when working in occupied high-end houses.

And let me state, for the record, that I was truly shocked to see above that Darcy doesn't have a Domino- I was certain that he had at least one of everything that Festool currently makes.  Hell, he's even gotten to the point that he's traveling around the country picking up 50 y/o Festo power feeders like they're missing pieces of some twisted Festool puzzle......lol