Imperial vs Metric!!!

[Tintin]

[cool] [cool] [cool] [cool]

 

[Massemannen]

[popcorn]

 

[Massemannen]

 

[Stephen B]

[size=18pt]

Here we go again!  [eek]
[size=14pt]
Let me sum up what is to follow.
[size=18pt]
NA members  -[size=14pt]
Some will say that it is their right as a citizen of the US (almost like it is guaranteed in the constitution) to stay using imperial measurements. They will quote examples such as the strength of US manufacturing and technology as being completely founded on Imperial systems. Once someone even suggested that Festool change it's measuring guides due to the NA market.

Others will point out that the US has tried to change, but this has proved too costly or did not eventuate due to citizen resistance. Eg. The use of Kilometres in the road system.

Still others will say that they are starting to use metric systems in their shops but they find confusion in estimating or conversion. They are not alone in this struggle, witness some space industry blunders. These members will be told to throw away their imperial rulers and all will be well. Mm mm  [sad]

This will be countered by arguments and discussion about the changes currently being undertaken by US technology and manufacturing, due in part to export, free trade and other agreements. Import of metric based tools such as Festool will be mentioned.

[size=18pt]
Rest of the World[size=14pt]
Will point out the logic and consequent simplicity in use of metric over imperial systems, and how this lowers manufacturing costs, promotes efficiency and safety in transport and most significantly reduces errors for those working with timber and wood.

Some of us will then 'admit' we still use imperial measurement almost as slang; for example '4x2' when purchasing 90x45mm timber.  (Edit. We even use PSI for tyre pressures, so much safer!)

Links will be made about the strength of our economies due to the efficiencies of metric systems; conveniently forgetting that like the US and Canada, our economies have at best 'struggled' since the GFC.

I am sure there are some points I have missed with regard to previous discussion of both systems. There will be some passion in the arguments presented and countered by some members, but within days all will be forgiven and we will go on to compliment a project, share in the delight of a new tool, or discuss a problem or technique.

Thankfully this is the FOG. [smile]

So -  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Edit.
There is a really helpful discussion currently happening on the FOG at -
http://festoolownersgroup.com/building-materials/help-with-common-metric-sizes/?topicseen

 

[roblg3]

WHY?  I use both...Use what works best for you and why would anyone care what works for someone else?  HAHAHAHA

 

[Birdhunter]

I use both metric and Imperial, but my wife uses "pinch", "dash", "tad", etc in her cooking. Whatever works.

 

[semenza]

Some of us will then 'admit' we still use imperial measurement almost as slang; for example '4x2' when purchasing 90x45mm timber.

      Aside from the metric debate. In the USA it is a 2 x 4  not a 4 x 2 .    :    [tongue]

Seth

 

[jonny round boy]

  Aside from the metric debate. In the USA it is a 2 x 4  not a 4 x 2 .    :    [tongue]

So, if you call 4x2 2x4, then why aren't sheet goods 4x8? Why do you still call them 8x4? If you're going to disagree with the rest of the world, at least do it consistently!  [tongue]

Or is that why you have sheet goods at 5x5, to avoid confusing yourselves... [big grin]

 

[wow]

  Aside from the metric debate. In the USA it is a 2 x 4  not a 4 x 2 .    :    [tongue]

So, if you call 4x2 2x4, then why aren't sheet goods 4x8? Why do you still call them 8x4? If you're going to disagree with the rest of the world, at least do it consistently!  [tongue]

Or is that why you have sheet goods at 5x5, to avoid confusing yourselves... [big grin]

Sheet goods are 4x8, not 8x4. The smaller dimension is always first. As in:

1 x 3 (baseboard)
2 x ? (dimensional lumber)
4 x 8 (feet - sheet goods)

Did you Brits get THAT wrong too?

[poke] [popcorn]

 

[Stephen B]

. . . . . .
Did you Brits get THAT wrong too?
[poke] [popcorn]

[size=14pt]
No WOW, they certainly did not, it's just that you guys had a rebellion, became a Republic and every thing became confused!  [smile]

Still good on you.
We had a 'little' Rebellion on the gold fields near Ballarat, The Eureka Stockade, but most things British still infiltrated our culture until large scale immigration from Europe commenced following WW11.

This immigration provided skilled trades and labour  to work in industry and large scale infrastructure projects such as the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme. Consequently this technical skilling of the workforce and industry influenced decisions to become Metric during the period 1970-1988.

[size=8pt]
Eureka Stockade
http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/eureka-stockade

Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme
http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/snowy-mountains-scheme

 

[Kev]

  Aside from the metric debate. In the USA it is a 2 x 4  not a 4 x 2 .    :    [tongue]

So, if you call 4x2 2x4, then why aren't sheet goods 4x8? Why do you still call them 8x4? If you're going to disagree with the rest of the world, at least do it consistently!  [tongue]

Or is that why you have sheet goods at 5x5, to avoid confusing yourselves... [big grin]

Sheet goods are 4x8, not 8x4. The smaller dimension is always first. As in:

1 x 3 (baseboard)
2 x ? (dimensional lumber)
4 x 8 (feet - sheet goods)

Did you Brits get THAT wrong too?

[poke] [popcorn]

Nope, not buying it ...

Rhyming slang relies on 4x2 for critical descriptions - not 2x4 [mad] [big grin]

 

[RC]

It's not so bad people - I've transitioned from Finnish Marks (currency) to Euros during my lifetime and now after about 10 years of constant use I can attest that after the first 3-5 years I pretty much quit converting to marks at the easy conversion rate of 5.94573 mk to a €. After all you kinda think more in terms of percentages of income or savings rather than absolute monetary value when you assess can one afford something or not. (Or at least I do)

Of course nothing is a better motivator for change than necessity [wink]

It does take a while to get a kind of a 'visual memory' of what the different units mean like 1 foot in my 'visual memory' = about one standard paper ruler of 30cm and 4 inches = about 10cm or in currency 20€ has about as much purchase power as our old 100 mk note used to have. These give me a reference to units I can visualize in my mind.

You could try to Swedish way of change:
Sweden used to have left-side traffic and they decided to transition to right-side traffic in 1967 in well controlled stages at the command of the Swedish parliament Dagen H.

On Saturday midnight the heavy vehicles changed sides from left to right and cars and motorbikes followed on Sunday morning.[tongue] [wink]

 

[elfick]

  Aside from the metric debate. In the USA it is a 2 x 4  not a 4 x 2 .    :    [tongue]

So, if you call 4x2 2x4, then why aren't sheet goods 4x8? Why do you still call them 8x4? If you're going to disagree with the rest of the world, at least do it consistently!  [tongue]

Or is that why you have sheet goods at 5x5, to avoid confusing yourselves... [big grin]

The only time you would see 4x2 is either in a math class or in a vehicle drivetrain discussion (suspension x drive).
The only time I've seen 5x5 sheet goods has been baltic birch which came from overseas.  [smile]

But the real annoyance for me is door sizing. There is something that just doesn't make sense... 3/0? Don't they know you can't divide by zero?  [big grin] (joking aside, I do understand the notation, but I still think it's dumb)

 

[wow]

But the real annoyance for me is door sizing. There is something that just doesn't make sense... 3/0? Don't they know you can't divide by zero?  [big grin] (joking aside, I do understand the notation, but I still think it's dumb)

Agreed, and brings up an interesting point: What are common metric door sizes?

US doors are typically multiples of 2" - 2 foot 6, 2 foot 8, ...3 foot 0, etc. - expressed as 2/6, 2/8 ...3/0 as elfick noted above.

Are metric doors multiples of something? 32mm perhaps?

 

[Slartibartfass]

Having grown up in Europe before I settled in the US a "while" ago...I can state that both systems work well as long as you stay within one. I even start to count/group stuff in 12s and 16th. After a while any system feels natural.

And using zero Celsius as a starting point is arbitrary too. The only so called logical base is zero kelvin.... Enough said....

 

[semenza]

  Aside from the metric debate. In the USA it is a 2 x 4  not a 4 x 2 .    :    [tongue]

So, if you call 4x2 2x4, then why aren't sheet goods 4x8? Why do you still call them 8x4? If you're going to disagree with the rest of the world, at least do it consistently!  [tongue]

Or is that why you have sheet goods at 5x5, to avoid confusing yourselves... [big grin]

It is 4 x 8. But you may be on to something with the 5 x 5.  We could just start building everything with 4" x 4"s and 5' x 5' to simplify things  [big grin]

Seth

 

[Wuffles]

The only so called logical base is zero kelvin.... Enough said....

Apart from stuff like: http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-gas-goes-below-absolute-zero-1.12146

 

[Slartibartfass]

Cool tidbit, I learned something. Thx for sharing.

The only so called logical base is zero kelvin.... Enough said....

Apart from stuff like: http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-gas-goes-below-absolute-zero-1.12146

 

[Wuffles]

Cool tidbit, I learned something. Thx for sharing.

I felt bad posting it, it's like the periodic table, you think, wow, those guys knew their stuff predicting spaces for the missing elements all those years ago, and then BANG, a new one if found that doesn't conform to their guesses. It's a shame. They should move absolute zero down a bit each time.

 

[GPowers]

Some USA industries are all metric, like the medical field.