Incra Cleansweep router table dust collection, is it a bad idea??

[Michael Kellough]

Routers draw air in from the top and push the air past the motor to keep the armature from overheating. When the router is used normally there is an extra "benefit" in that the air is somewhat effective in blowing the debris away from the working area. When used in a router table that air-stream is pretty annoying, blowing the debris in your face and everywhere, depending on how tightly the table insert encloses the bit.

A well designed dust collection system for a router table should remove debris from the cutting area. But it should not interfere with the makeup air required by the router motor. In this regard the Incra system seems to be a very primitive design.

The Incra Cleansweep is a box that completely envelops the router. The dust extraction port is right below the intake air end of the router. The router fan has to compete with the dust collector and pull air out of a dust and debris laden stream going the opposite direction. How is this good?

To me this simple inexpensive system from Keen Products is the only thing that makes sense.

A flexible silicon shroud fits around the motor shaft effectively blocking debris from falling into the motor. The shroud also provides a port to connect a suitably high velocity dust extractor. (all vacs are high velocity compared to a dust collector and are a better match for the speed of the debris) The system also provides a collection line to the fence to capture the debris from profile milling operations.

You can buy it from Woodcraft or Amazon.

Incra makes some great stuff but I don't get this one...

Provoked by an email from Incra that claimed there dumb box was "superior".

 

[nickao]

The incra set up works better and doesn't hurt the router.

Both these systems are basically copies of things that have been sold for years.

Using a collector with a 4" hose actually keep that router in the Incra box stay cooler if that's your rational for not having it enclosed.. getting to the router for me is never an issue as the router stays in the table all the time.

I have a couple router tables that are enclosed, but until I actually added a box right around the router the dust collection wasn't near as good and the enclosed table got hot. I have had a Milwaukee 3.5 HP router in an encloser very very similar to that of the incra(and that encloser is within an enclosed router table as well) with zero bad effects on the router 7 years later.

Both types of systemswork, the INCRA type works better for me in my shop. I  have a system like the 2nd set up sitting in one of my drawers full of router accessories I dont use anymore.

 

[rizzoa13]

The clean sweep isn't the only dust extraction either. The incra wonderfence removes dust from directly behind the bit and then through the fence to the extractor. The clean sweep adds additional extraction underneath the bit through the magnalock rings. Personally I'd think the air being pulled across the router motor would help it shed heat quicker and let it run at a lower temperature. That's just my guess though.

I'll be getting the clean sweep down the road for my setup without a doubt.

 

[rst]

I use the Keen Products setup on my self made router table.  I have a Bench Dog lift that I've been using for long before all the other manufacturers copies came out.  I buy self stick velcro to attach the under table collar to my various size inserts.  I like this setup better the the below vac setups as it keeps 99% of the chip filled air away from my PC 7518 motor.

 

[Svar]

I never used fully enclosed cabinet dust collection, but I agree with OP. I always thought that the motor there works in a dust cloud recirculating it through its innards, and that can't be good. High concentration of combustive dust and sparks from brushes also make me worried.
On the other hand, I haven't heard anyone complaining about such system, unless air flow inside the cabinet was inadequate causing overheating. That happens when routing a dado, for example, where your material almost entirely blocks the only air intake point. Combined with stationary (low static pressure) dust collector it brings air flow through the box to a halt.

 

[Cochese]

The first theoretical complaint I've heard about this system. It is designed to be used alongside the Cleansweep rings, which have additional vents to draw in more air and thus more dust. There might be more dust blowing around inside the cabinet, but then again so does just about all the DIY router cabinet designs.

 

[promark747]

I hope it's not a bad idea...I just bought one a few days ago...  [scared]

 

[Svar]

The first theoretical complaint I've heard about this system. It is designed to be used alongside the Cleansweep rings, which have additional vents to draw in more air and thus more dust. There might be more dust blowing around inside the cabinet, but then again so does just about all the DIY router cabinet designs.

The complaint about overheating is not theoretical, it's just not from personal experience. Additional vents in the rings make sense. Some users drill holes in the cabinet itself for better ventilation.
Not saying it's overall a bad system. Every system has drawbacks.

 

[Cochese]

The first theoretical complaint I've heard about this system. It is designed to be used alongside the Cleansweep rings, which have additional vents to draw in more air and thus more dust. There might be more dust blowing around inside the cabinet, but then again so does just about all the DIY router cabinet designs.

The complaint about overheating is not theoretical, it's just not from personal experience. Additional vents in the rings make sense. Some users drill holes in the cabinet itself for better ventilation.
Not saying it's overall a bad system. Every system has drawbacks.

I'm saying the concern about the router overheating due to this system is to this point theoretical - I've not heard of it happening.

 

[semenza]

    I agree that the under table enclosure set ups seem like a bad idea. I have that type of set up.... 4" hose to a dust collector. DC is excellent. I have often wondered how long the PC7518 motor will last.. But it has been in use for many years. Mine does not have the rings with additional holes just various size solid rings.  I also used to have a vac connected to the Incra Wonder fence. It didn't improve the DC to any noticeable degree by using both so I quit using the through the fence and just stuck with the enclosure.  Never tried through the fence by  itself.

Seth

 

[Svar]

I'm saying the concern about the router overheating due to this system is to this point theoretical - I've not heard of it happening.

But I have heard about it happening from a user of shop made cabinet. Hence holes in the cabinets to draw more air, which solved the problem.

 

[Cochese]

I'm saying the concern about the router overheating due to this system is to this point theoretical - I've not heard of it happening.

But I have heard about it happening from a user of shop made cabinet. Hence holes in the cabinets to draw more air, which solved the problem.

I could see that happening with a near-zero clearance opening at the bit, but like I said the CS rings address that.

I'd also say it also depends on use case. A lot of people would be better served with a shaper for high-intensity/long-session routing.

 

[grbmds]

I have the Clean Sweep installed on my Incra table. I've periodically checked the router and residual dust in the Clean Sweep box underneath the table over the past year and found almost none. I use mine with a cyclone dust collector with a 4" connection to the CleanSweep. The dust collection is great; not 100% but close. Even for grooves, dust collection is better than my previous table because there is strong air movement downward. I haven't really owned the table and the PC7518 motor long enough to determine if there would be a decrease in motor life from using the Clean Sweep, but it would seem unlikely due to the air movement and the elimination of almost all dust and chips.

In response to a previous comment for this post, the additional dust collection port on the Incra Wonder Fence works well, but only when the bit is exposed a little and mostly buried in the fence; so when routing on edges mainly. When doing dovetails on the Incra table, this additional collection port doesn't do anything because the chips and dust aren't generated near the opening in the fence. For this type of operation, only the under table collection functions. Sorry if this is obvious to everyone, but just wanted to make sure that those who might be in the market for the Incra table and/or fence know.

 

[promark747]

On my Wonder Fence, I've found that removing the end cap from the fence (the infeed side, i.e., opposite the vac connection) resulted in better dust collection.  Perhaps better airflow...

 

[Cochese]

The only issue I have with the Wonder Fence is when split, some dust escapes the top.

 

[HarveyWildes]

I've got a shop made router table/drawers/box enclosure with a 4" DC connection, and a Wonder Fence with a Rigid vacuum attached.  Even when I'm routing next to the fence, some chips still get through straight along the fence in the direction of the cut.  I might try the endcap trick.  I just replaced the old Jessum Mast-R-Lift (not the II) with a new Incra lift that has clean sweep rings, so I'm hoping that will help some.

That aside, I've had a Makita router in the table for going on 15 years and never had trouble with overheating or bearing wear on the router.  It's not running on a production schedule, but it's not running once a month for five minutes either.

 

[rst]

Cochese, just put painters tape over the split and that issue disappears with the Wonderfence.

 

[Cochese]

Cochese, just put painters tape over the split and that issue disappears with the Wonderfence.

I can solve it easily, I wish Incra would have solved that particular issue by now. Those little plastic pieces that are mounted on the top of the fence to show the offset, something like that would be perfect.

Might whip up something and see if I can attach magnetically.

 

[leakyroof]

interesting theory.  For my own router table, which is a stout Benchtop model from Bench Dog, I added a 4" normal DC hose to the Cabinet, with a splitter taking a smaller hose to the dust port at the fence as provided by the Manuf.  Bench Dog was pretty clear in their instructions that you were not supposed to run the router motor in their cabinet without venting it through DC, and the motor isn't even enclosed like the example MK/OP provided.
I have the big Porter-Cable router mounted to the table, it's never heated up or failed me yet, but, I always run DC air/dust collection when I'm using the router table, even for a brief job.

 

[JimD]

I used a box enclosure around the router in my table saw extension table and didn't like how hot my PC690 got.  So I took it off.  When I built my separate router table, I put a collection up around the collet inside the cabinet and another on the fence.  Works at least as well and the router doesn't seem to get as hot.  Just makes sense to me to not have the DC fight the router blower.