Incra Cleansweep router table dust collection, is it a bad idea??

[rst]

With my Keen Dust Router system I use a festool router table hose that I bought on Ebay for a good price...works great.

 

[HarveyWildes]

I've got a shop made router table/drawers/box enclosure with a 4" DC connection, and a Wonder Fence with a Rigid vacuum attached.  Even when I'm routing next to the fence, some chips still get through straight along the fence in the direction of the cut.  I might try the endcap trick.  I just replaced the old Jessum Mast-R-Lift (not the II) with a new Incra lift that has clean sweep rings, so I'm hoping that will help some.

That aside, I've had a Makita router in the table for going on 15 years and never had trouble with overheating or bearing wear on the router.  It's not running on a production schedule, but it's not running once a month for five minutes either.

I just used the clean sweep rings for the first time.  They did not totally eliminate chips getting through straight along the fence in the direction of the cut, but there was maybe a 75% improvement.  The chips tend to escape during the initial cut, before wood covers the ring.  I assume that is because there is a certain "escape velocity" for the chips, and the more enclosed the bit is, the higher the escape velocity needs to be to overcome the more concentrated flow of air into the ring.  At any rate, it does improve the dust collection nicely, but doesn't eliminate the problem.  The smaller the dust particles, the better the collection.  I assume that the smaller particles don't have enough mass to go against the flow (so to speak), while the chips do.

 

[grbmds]

I've got a shop made router table/drawers/box enclosure with a 4" DC connection, and a Wonder Fence with a Rigid vacuum attached.  Even when I'm routing next to the fence, some chips still get through straight along the fence in the direction of the cut.  I might try the endcap trick.  I just replaced the old Jessum Mast-R-Lift (not the II) with a new Incra lift that has clean sweep rings, so I'm hoping that will help some.

That aside, I've had a Makita router in the table for going on 15 years and never had trouble with overheating or bearing wear on the router.  It's not running on a production schedule, but it's not running once a month for five minutes either.

I just used the clean sweep rings for the first time.  They did not totally eliminate chips getting through straight along the fence in the direction of the cut, but there was maybe a 75% improvement.  The chips tend to escape during the initial cut, before wood covers the ring.  I assume that is because there is a certain "escape velocity" for the chips, and the more enclosed the bit is, the higher the escape velocity needs to be to overcome the more concentrated flow of air into the ring.  At any rate, it does improve the dust collection nicely, but doesn't eliminate the problem.  The smaller the dust particles, the better the collection.  I assume that the smaller particles don't have enough mass to go against the flow (so to speak), while the chips do.

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] How effective the rings and Clean Sweep are depends on more than one factor, I found out. First, while you want to use the ring with the least clearance possible, sometimes using a ring with a larger opening will give better dust collection. Obviously the openings need to remain small enough to prevent the wood from getting caught on the opening edges or tilting into the opening. Second, your dust collection machine makes a difference. For example, I found I get better results using my cyclone dust collector and the full 4" port on the Clean Sweep than if I use my CT48 and narrow the opening down to fit the Festool hose. For rabbets and cuts close to the fence, using both the in-fence collection plus the below table collection eliminates some of the chips you get at first and probably some other chips during the cut (but then I have an Incra Wonder Fence that permits that). I really do get almost all the chips although you are correct that some escape at the front end of the cut. You can reduce that even by edging the wood into the cut which will give the air flow the opportunity to pull a smaller amount of chips and will get almost all of them (depends how important it is to you). I think the Clean Sweep (and, for that matter, any under table collection) is essential and greatly improves the collection compared to without under table collection.

 

[HarveyWildes]

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] How effective the rings and Clean Sweep are depends on more than one factor, I found out. First, while you want to use the ring with the least clearance possible, sometimes using a ring with a larger opening will give better dust collection. Obviously the openings need to remain small enough to prevent the wood from getting caught on the opening edges or tilting into the opening. Second, your dust collection machine makes a difference. For example, I found I get better results using my cyclone dust collector and the full 4" port on the Clean Sweep than if I use my CT48 and narrow the opening down to fit the Festool hose. For rabbets and cuts close to the fence, using both the in-fence collection plus the below table collection eliminates some of the chips you get at first and probably some other chips during the cut (but then I have an Incra Wonder Fence that permits that). I really do get almost all the chips although you are correct that some escape at the front end of the cut. You can reduce that even by edging the wood into the cut which will give the air flow the opportunity to pull a smaller amount of chips and will get almost all of them (depends how important it is to you). I think the Clean Sweep (and, for that matter, any under table collection) is essential and greatly improves the collection compared to without under table collection.

Yep - that's my setup also, except I'm using a Rigid vacuum on the fence, and I pretty much agree on all points.  On rabbets and other edging tasks, once I'm past the initial cut, the dust collection is nearly 100% and on grooves the chips do not pack into the groove like they used to.

But - not exactly sure what you mean by edging the wood into the cut.  Could you elaborate?

 

[grbmds]

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] How effective the rings and Clean Sweep are depends on more than one factor, I found out. First, while you want to use the ring with the least clearance possible, sometimes using a ring with a larger opening will give better dust collection. Obviously the openings need to remain small enough to prevent the wood from getting caught on the opening edges or tilting into the opening. Second, your dust collection machine makes a difference. For example, I found I get better results using my cyclone dust collector and the full 4" port on the Clean Sweep than if I use my CT48 and narrow the opening down to fit the Festool hose. For rabbets and cuts close to the fence, using both the in-fence collection plus the below table collection eliminates some of the chips you get at first and probably some other chips during the cut (but then I have an Incra Wonder Fence that permits that). I really do get almost all the chips although you are correct that some escape at the front end of the cut. You can reduce that even by edging the wood into the cut which will give the air flow the opportunity to pull a smaller amount of chips and will get almost all of them (depends how important it is to you). I think the Clean Sweep (and, for that matter, any under table collection) is essential and greatly improves the collection compared to without under table collection.

Yep - that's my setup also, except I'm using a Rigid vacuum on the fence, and I pretty much agree on all points.  On rabbets and other edging tasks, once I'm past the initial cut, the dust collection is nearly 100% and on grooves the chips do not pack into the groove like they used to.

But - not exactly sure what you mean by edging the wood into the cut.  Could you elaborate?

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] Sorry I wasn't clear. I just meant that when I start the cut very slowly, fewer chips escape.

 

[juststartingout]

I have the Keen products on my router table and on my jobsite table saw(Dust Cutter II).  The gear is well made for hobbyists like myself.  One thing I would like to mention is that the company is PHENOMENAL!!!  I called Keen for an exchange due to a part I needed replaced from my own fault.  The company sent me an email apologizing for the delay(the founder--the respndents father) had just passed.  They sent me the replacement part before my sending payment. 

I have to say, I felt great about the legacy the Daughter is trying to keep up for her father, and I don't know anything about Incra, but I actually made a box for myself along with the keen products. 

Again, I CAN definitely recommend the Keen Products!

Oscar

 

[grbmds]

Too bad when I needed the attachment they weren't selling it during their transition. I would have liked to try it but it just wasn't available and, since the delay was indefinite, I chose not to wait. I love my Incra and Clean Sweep though. I couldn't ask for anything more.

 

[ben_r_]

I use the Rockler version of the under table dust bin idea (LINK) along with the Incra lift with the Clean Sweep Magnetic Inserts all in a BenchDog cast iron table. The drop coming from my 3HP Oneida V-3000 dust collector gets gradually sized down via wye branches to 4" where it splits off with a wye (NOT a T) to a 2.5" that goes the router tables fence dust port. I actually believe using the Rockler box helps cool the router as it has an adjustable circular side vent which a fully open sucks in a ton of air which in turn passes buy the router motor. LOVE this setup, there is never any dust in the bin nor on the table.

 

[big K]

The only issue I have with the Wonder Fence is when split, some dust escapes the top.

I had the same issue with my WonderFence, found it real annoying. I made a wood block, probably 2 1/2" wide, that fits over the fins of the WF's extrusions on top with a small down-fence in back to sit over the top opening and it resolved the problem permanently.

I have two enclosures around my twin router table that are hooked up to dust collection, and they made my router table damn near dust free. The enclosures are red sheet metal boxes that were once sold by Hartville Tools, but they are discontinued now. These boxes have access doors to get at the router and do have small slots cut around the top of the box for additional air flow to aid with dust extraction.

I use both the box and fence DC connections with 4" hose to both running to a 6-4-4 Y and blastgate. Dust collection isn't quite perfect, but damn near.

 

[kono0014]

Not sure it has been mentioned but another benefit of the Incra Cleansweep is the sound reduction.  I have even thought about adding a couple pads of insulation on the inside of the box to even further reduce the sound but haven't got around to experimenting.  VERY noticeable sound reduction as is though.  I love mine and I will concur that the router never gets hot as the air moving past it is significant.  No issues whatsoever.

 

[Steven Owen]

Not sure it has been mentioned but another benefit of the Incra Cleansweep is the sound reduction.  I have even thought about adding a couple pads of insulation on the inside of the box to even further reduce the sound but haven't got around to experimenting.  VERY noticeable sound reduction as is though.  I love mine and I will concur that the router never gets hot as the air moving past it is significant.  No issues whatsoever.

I chatted with Incra about the CleanSweep, they said they’ve did several years of testing and redesigns and multiple router brands to make sure the CleanSweep would operate without causing any over heating as long as people are using 4 Inch dust collection system to maximize the air flow.

 

[retfr8flyr]

I have been running the Clean Sweep system, with the Wonder fence, on my Incra table for years and my PC 7518 shows zero sings of any problems. The box is always clean and the only time I have to worry about dust is when I am free handing something, without the fence.

 

[Lbob131]

The  only  time  you need  downward  dust extraction is  when  routing  grooves, rabbets,  dado's  etc.

The  OF2200  vents  to  the sides  and  not  the base. And  has  excellent dust extraction  through  the base.
Seems  to be  the perfect  candidate  for  a router table.
If  its  fitted  to  the ujk  router  lift  with  the extension collet  then  above  table  bit changes  should  be  possible.

An  incra  lift  and  AUK  router  is  cheaper  than  what I just  suggested  but it seems  to  me  it solves  the  downward  dust  extraction  issue. And  here  in the  UK  the  american/canadian  router  table  systems  are  exceedingly expensive.
For  me  anyway. As  I can't get  my head  around  pulling  dust  down  into  basically  what seems  to be  an enclosed  router  chamber  full  of dust.

Surely  particles  of dust  will enter  through  the  inlet  side  of  the router?
Especially  if  you  just  use  the fence  extraction.
If  you  use  both  extractions (base  and  fence)  at  the  same  time  then surely  they  will  be  pulling against  each  other?

I suppose  you  could  wrap a dust  filter  on  the  inlet.
My  old  RUPES  sander  had  a  dust  attachment  filter. [cool]
Which was  purchased  in  1983.
You can  still  buy  the exact  same  sander  today....
It  almost  looks  Festoolish  looking. [big grin]