Slowlearner
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Glossed over thread saw about heatsinks etc. Found thishttps://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...rZLdUJhIbkOWGyRphRIWfUjGuLxbxX0gaAssyEALw_wcB
Installing LED strips and other LED issues
- Thread starter Cheese
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usernumber1
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not sure where you're getting your led from; after messing around with numerous local suppliers and chinese deals, all my installs are going to be from armacost only. their LEDs are up to spec and i have not see any burnouts.
i think leevalley also uses them as a supplier. they are definitely premium priced but sometimes there's a sale from their site
i should add the installs have some spec requirements, so for example you may need aluminum housing for cooling purposes, etc. depending on power, length of run, etc. there's other things : they provide technical docs
i think leevalley also uses them as a supplier. they are definitely premium priced but sometimes there's a sale from their site
i should add the installs have some spec requirements, so for example you may need aluminum housing for cooling purposes, etc. depending on power, length of run, etc. there's other things : they provide technical docs
Cheese
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Slowlearner said:
The extrusion you noted is manufactured by Klus. Nothing wrong with their products, it's good German stuff. They produce a variety of various aluminum extrusions and I'm using one of theirs for a an edge lit glass shelf in a bath.
I tend to use all DIODE LED products when I can because of their track record. I've used them for the last 6-7 years and haven't had any issues. It's currently used mostly by commercial fabricators in the kitchen, bath and lighting arenas.
https://www.diodeled.com
Interestingly enough as a comparison, the Klus 39" long extrusion you pointed out costs $33.90 with a frosted cover.
The DIODE LED 48" long extrusion costs $23.50 with a frosted cover. If I had a commercial account, I could probably get a 10%-15% discount.
Cheese
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So, it's been a while since we've seen this post.
I purchased some in-concrete friendly LED lights that were IP 67 rated at the time. And that time was 13 years ago...
They are manufactured totally from 316 SST, and feature 3/16" thick tempered glass lenses set in silicone. All the internal seals are Viton o'rings. They truly are the cats-pajamas...material wise. They were given the name Polaris because of their water affinity and were only manufactured for about 3 years.
Unfortunately, the then current LED lighting technology wasn't commensurate with the materials science technology. So the LED lights they used at the time were just a multitude of 5 mm LEDS in a small circle to produce a fairly bright lite. It worked well for a awhile, but like I've said before, heat is the enemy of semiconductors and without a robust heatsink, it was inevitable that they would have a shortened life span. her affinity city.
Unfortunately the life span was even shorter than I thought it would be, just 2 years. These are used for lighting stone treads and are on a dusk-to-dawn sensor. They're on a yearly average of 12 hours per day which comes to 4400 hours per year. So to only get 9000 hours of use from an LED that's rated at 50,000 to 60,000 hours was disappointing.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Here's the housing.
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Here is the original LED array that came installed in the housing.
[attachimg=5]
I purchased some in-concrete friendly LED lights that were IP 67 rated at the time. And that time was 13 years ago...
They are manufactured totally from 316 SST, and feature 3/16" thick tempered glass lenses set in silicone. All the internal seals are Viton o'rings. They truly are the cats-pajamas...material wise. They were given the name Polaris because of their water affinity and were only manufactured for about 3 years.
Unfortunately, the then current LED lighting technology wasn't commensurate with the materials science technology. So the LED lights they used at the time were just a multitude of 5 mm LEDS in a small circle to produce a fairly bright lite. It worked well for a awhile, but like I've said before, heat is the enemy of semiconductors and without a robust heatsink, it was inevitable that they would have a shortened life span. her affinity city.
Unfortunately the life span was even shorter than I thought it would be, just 2 years. These are used for lighting stone treads and are on a dusk-to-dawn sensor. They're on a yearly average of 12 hours per day which comes to 4400 hours per year. So to only get 9000 hours of use from an LED that's rated at 50,000 to 60,000 hours was disappointing.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Here's the housing.
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Here is the original LED array that came installed in the housing.
[attachimg=5]
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Cheese
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The original LED array that comes in the stainless housing dies in a helter-skelter fashion. Sometimes it's death starts as a single LED and sometimes it's several LED's that fail all at once, and that pattern slowly continues until all the LED's are finally dead.
[attachimg=1]
I originally purchased 6 of the Polaris lights and over the past several years after swapping in and out all 6 of the housings, all of the Led arrays are toast to a greater or lesser degree. To continue to use the housings long into the future, I decided to fabricate replacement LED units using the newer technology of a single high efficiency LED mounted onto a single pad.
I chose Luxeon Star LED's because of the many options they offer including, spectral color, white color temperature, luminosity, LED driver amperages and their long term reliability. Typical LED life with a proper heat sink is in the 50,000 - 60,000 hours range. If you subscribe to a dawn-to-dusk lighting program, that means almost 12-13 years of usage before a replacement needs to be considered.
https://www.luxeonstar.com
So the first thing I determined is that the premature failure of the individual LED's was because of a lack of effective heat-sinking.
Thus, I started with designing an aluminum plug inserted into the stainless housing that would securely hold the LED while also being a line-to-line fit with the stainless housing. That way, as aluminum is a great conductor of heat, any extraneous heat generated would also be sloughed off to the stainless enclosure, even though stainless is horrible at heat dissipation. Using the stainless housing as an additional heat sink/transfer mechanism was important as the housings reside within concrete steps which can then dissipate heat because of their thermal mass.
So the concrete stays cool, which means the stainless housing stays cool, which also means the aluminum plug and the attached LED stays cool.
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=1]
I originally purchased 6 of the Polaris lights and over the past several years after swapping in and out all 6 of the housings, all of the Led arrays are toast to a greater or lesser degree. To continue to use the housings long into the future, I decided to fabricate replacement LED units using the newer technology of a single high efficiency LED mounted onto a single pad.
I chose Luxeon Star LED's because of the many options they offer including, spectral color, white color temperature, luminosity, LED driver amperages and their long term reliability. Typical LED life with a proper heat sink is in the 50,000 - 60,000 hours range. If you subscribe to a dawn-to-dusk lighting program, that means almost 12-13 years of usage before a replacement needs to be considered.
https://www.luxeonstar.com
So the first thing I determined is that the premature failure of the individual LED's was because of a lack of effective heat-sinking.
Thus, I started with designing an aluminum plug inserted into the stainless housing that would securely hold the LED while also being a line-to-line fit with the stainless housing. That way, as aluminum is a great conductor of heat, any extraneous heat generated would also be sloughed off to the stainless enclosure, even though stainless is horrible at heat dissipation. Using the stainless housing as an additional heat sink/transfer mechanism was important as the housings reside within concrete steps which can then dissipate heat because of their thermal mass.
So the concrete stays cool, which means the stainless housing stays cool, which also means the aluminum plug and the attached LED stays cool.
[attachimg=2]
Attachments
Cheese
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The aluminum plug/heat sink is fabricated from 6061-T6511 aluminum round. Close attention is paid to the diameters as I wanted it to fit snug inside the stainless housing.
The round recessed area in the top of the plug is where the LED and its pad will be mounted. Likewise it was very important that the bottom of the recess is smooth & flat as it's the only mechanism for the LED/pad interface to carry away the generated heat.
[attachimg=1]
The slot milled into each side of the plug is for running the 12V DC wires to the LED/pad assembly.
[attachimg=2]
This top view shows the recessed area with 2 each 4-40 tapped holes to retain the LED. A light coating of thermal conductive paste is applied to the recessed area and the LED is then fastened down carefully so as not to warp or distort the assembly.
[attachimg=3]
This is what a complete LED/pad assembly looks like. A single LED that puts out more lumens than the previous 18 each 5 mm LED's. The 18 previous LED's generated 120 lm, this single LED is rated at 186 lm @ 700mA current.
And here's a drawing of how the LED/pad assembly is created.
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Two different color temperature LED's. The 3500K version is for the front steps where it matches the rest of the front garden lighting. While the 5000K version is for the rear steps to match the garden lighting used there.
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
The LED assembly is mounted in place but still needs to be fastened down with screws. You can see the black & red lead wires have been soldered to the LED and have been placed in their channels.
This is also a great shot comparing old LED technology to current LED technology. The single LED on the right puts out 45% more light than the 18 LED array on the left and it also has a 30% longer life span.
[attachimg=8]
Here's a shot of the LED's in the front steps at night before the 2nd bluestone tread was attached. They put out just enough light to clearly outline each tread while not annoying the neighbors. [eek]
[attachimg=9]
[attachimg=10]
The round recessed area in the top of the plug is where the LED and its pad will be mounted. Likewise it was very important that the bottom of the recess is smooth & flat as it's the only mechanism for the LED/pad interface to carry away the generated heat.
[attachimg=1]
The slot milled into each side of the plug is for running the 12V DC wires to the LED/pad assembly.
[attachimg=2]
This top view shows the recessed area with 2 each 4-40 tapped holes to retain the LED. A light coating of thermal conductive paste is applied to the recessed area and the LED is then fastened down carefully so as not to warp or distort the assembly.
[attachimg=3]
This is what a complete LED/pad assembly looks like. A single LED that puts out more lumens than the previous 18 each 5 mm LED's. The 18 previous LED's generated 120 lm, this single LED is rated at 186 lm @ 700mA current.
And here's a drawing of how the LED/pad assembly is created.
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Two different color temperature LED's. The 3500K version is for the front steps where it matches the rest of the front garden lighting. While the 5000K version is for the rear steps to match the garden lighting used there.
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
The LED assembly is mounted in place but still needs to be fastened down with screws. You can see the black & red lead wires have been soldered to the LED and have been placed in their channels.
This is also a great shot comparing old LED technology to current LED technology. The single LED on the right puts out 45% more light than the 18 LED array on the left and it also has a 30% longer life span.
[attachimg=8]
Here's a shot of the LED's in the front steps at night before the 2nd bluestone tread was attached. They put out just enough light to clearly outline each tread while not annoying the neighbors. [eek]
[attachimg=9]
[attachimg=10]
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Cheese
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Here's a better shot of the rear steps.
The first photo is before the lights come on.
The 2nd is at dusk when the photo cell sensor kicks in. It adds just enough light to highlight what could become a tripping hazard.
The 3rd is around 11:00 PM when the potential tripping hazard turns into a reality. You can see that there's a good amount of light being thrown on the treads. Also note the similar color temperatures between the garden lights and the step lights. If this lighting wasn't matched, it'd be immediately noticed. [eek]
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
The first photo is before the lights come on.
The 2nd is at dusk when the photo cell sensor kicks in. It adds just enough light to highlight what could become a tripping hazard.
The 3rd is around 11:00 PM when the potential tripping hazard turns into a reality. You can see that there's a good amount of light being thrown on the treads. Also note the similar color temperatures between the garden lights and the step lights. If this lighting wasn't matched, it'd be immediately noticed. [eek]
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Attachments
Michael Kellough
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Thanks for posting, this is very educational.
Cheese
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Just happened upon these today. They seem like they'd be perfect for a tennis court or basketball court at night. A 500 watt current draw with a 65,000 lumen output.
https://www.ledlightexpert.com/500-...--5000K-Bright-White--10KV-surge-_p_1380.html
[attachimg=1]
https://www.ledlightexpert.com/500-...--5000K-Bright-White--10KV-surge-_p_1380.html
[attachimg=1]
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Michael Kellough
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Installed at only 8 feet high, I’m enjoying these 10k lumen shop 4 foot strip shop lights from Rockler.
Also love how lightweight they are. You could use double stick tape or Velcro to hold them in place.
Also love how lightweight they are. You could use double stick tape or Velcro to hold them in place.
Cheese
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Michael Kellough said:
Thanks for that [member=297]Michael Kellough[/member] I'm curious if you used fluorescent lighting before in that area, and if so are the LED's brighter? How is the light spread compared to fluorescents? The color temp seems pretty good.
Is it a single or double tube? Second thought...maybe it isn't even a tube at all? [eek] If that's the case, they'd get thrown in the trash when they die.
Michael Kellough
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Yes these replaced fluorescent lights and they’re a big improvement in brightness and cri.
Two rows of closely spaced leds. I seem to recall doing a rough calculation based on a couple of inches and there are about 400 individual leds.
Here is a tight shot of the room, spruced up to host my wife’s new etching press.
The light fixture is installed right above the gearbox parallel to the bed. It makes a pretty clear shadow of the stand but it also cast plenty of light laterally.
Two rows of closely spaced leds. I seem to recall doing a rough calculation based on a couple of inches and there are about 400 individual leds.
Here is a tight shot of the room, spruced up to host my wife’s new etching press.
The light fixture is installed right above the gearbox parallel to the bed. It makes a pretty clear shadow of the stand but it also cast plenty of light laterally.
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Michael Kellough
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[member=3192]rvieceli[/member] thanks! Made the stand from 3” 8020 stock and 1/2” MDO as shear panels to be able to leave out some aluminum stock and maximize storage.
The Dodge 5-1 reducer works fine (rated for something like 1500 rpm [scared]). It does stick out a lot more than I expected. By modifying the mount and choking up on the space between parts I could move the handle in about 1-1/2” but it would take some work.
Hard to see in the pic but I had to add extra stock to the bottoms of three of the legs because the floor is so out of level. The leg on the right corner is the designed length while the leg diagonally opposite needed an extra1-3/8”. They must have run short of concrete when pouring the floor. Getting it to reach the door (behind the camera) took priority.
The Dodge 5-1 reducer works fine (rated for something like 1500 rpm [scared]). It does stick out a lot more than I expected. By modifying the mount and choking up on the space between parts I could move the handle in about 1-1/2” but it would take some work.
Hard to see in the pic but I had to add extra stock to the bottoms of three of the legs because the floor is so out of level. The leg on the right corner is the designed length while the leg diagonally opposite needed an extra1-3/8”. They must have run short of concrete when pouring the floor. Getting it to reach the door (behind the camera) took priority.
Michael Kellough
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Etching inks don’t smell too bad but after printing mineral spirits is used to clean the plate.
What was it that made the old mimeo supply smell good?
What was it that made the old mimeo supply smell good?
Michael Kellough
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[member=44099]Cheese[/member] the fixture has four rows of led’s, 6 led’s per row per 2”. Overall length of rows is 45.5” so 45.5/2 = 22.75 x 24 = 546 led’s. BRIGHT!!!
Doh! Noticed in the enlarged photo that the columns of led’s are numbered. The last is 110 so there are 440 led’s.
Doh! Noticed in the enlarged photo that the columns of led’s are numbered. The last is 110 so there are 440 led’s.
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Cheese
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Michael Kellough said:
Nice stuff Michael [smile] Those are 2835 LED's...that's a good thing as they are currently the most efficient commercially available LED's. Another popular & inexpensive LED is the 5050. The 5050 is physically larger but the 2835 LED produces 20% more light than a 5050 LED while drawing 15% less current.
FWIW...the LED's get their name from their size. The 2835 is 2.8 mm x 3.5 mm and the 5050 is 5.0 mm x 5.0 mm.
