interesting video. A safe rip saw? (LOCKED)

[Brice Burrell]

Nick, with all due respect, you aren't qualified to provide legal counsel to the forum owners.  

.......People here and the posters and readers need to take some responsibility and I think having the forum owners deciding what we are smart enough to read is an insult to many here that are complaining. We are not stupid and showing a vid or link of doing something wrong and deleting it just says the people running the forum think we are stupid and not smart enough to process the info as safe or unsafe.

   

This is an absurd comment. We all know in this litigious society companies must protect themselves.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Really can't blame em in this letigious society.  

Then I'd say, blame the litigious society.

 

[Mike B]

Then I'd say, blame the litigious society.

So true!

Perhaps the forum can have a filter that only conceals "dangerous" links from litigious nations. Leaving the rest-of-the-world to make up their own mind. ;-)

 

[nickao]

I never gave any advice at all. Re read the post.

What I can and did do was comment on a real life experience I had. I stated that Festool had attorneys.

Hey anyone can sue anyone for anything, but I still believe in my mind that is not the reason for the videos getting deleted. I believe it is the forum promoters not wanting to show bad techniques that can get  a person hurt. Basically not letting us see anything unsafe.

I also said it is the right of the forum to make up and follow their own rules.

I thought my idea about the Saw Stop scenario was valid, I never said if I personally was for or against the idea of deleting these posts. Actually, I don't care to much as I am here for uses of the Festools and not really to many other tools.

.....People here and the posters and readers need to take some responsibility and I think having the forum owners deciding what we are smart enough to read is an insult to many here that are complaining. We are not stupid and showing a vid or link of doing something wrong and deleting it just says the people running the forum think we are stupid and not smart enough to process the info as safe or unsafe.

You said the statement above is absurd, no its not.  

So you don't think users should take responsibility for anything? The forum owners decide what is put up and taken down so they certainly are deciding what we are able and not able to see and whether it is safe or not for us to consume(before we can see it and decide for ourselves). If the forum did not think someone was stupid enough to do marginally safe or totally unsafe things in any video they would leave the video's up. I never said nor meant to imply Festool or the forum thought every single member was stupid. They are making the decision for us to what is safe and it may not be a bad thing, but it is happening. I believe this is an issue for some people, I never said I had an issue with it.

http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/dmcalaw.htm

http://newteevee.com/2008/08/06/youtube-lawsuits-a-roundup/

Most things taken down from web sites is due to copyright infringement.

 

[kosta]

Sawstop it would appear is not a direct competitor with Festool . while Eurekazone is selling a similar product, products. Would you want your competition
advertising on your companies web site or Forum?

If my competition invents a solution to a problem that keeps 98%+ of pottential customers from buying all my "other" tools???
I will pay them to advertise in my forum.

 

[kosta]

but what they showed in the video isn't a safe practice if ....

Then why not take down the sawstop video? Or do you  consider putting your finger in safer?

I am just reacting to the willingness of people here to either censor content, or call for it to be censored. I have never seen any board with so much censorship as here. And I think it is a very bad practice. In the culture where I am coming from all this stuff would be allowed without question. We are allowed to learn from both the good and the bad and put the ultimate responsibility into our own hands, and not in someone else's.

The Sawstop video clearly shows putting your finger in the blade's path to be safe with their saw.  The Sawstop video is promoting a very cleverly built and now, proven safety system, so I see no reason to remove that video.  With the EZ saw system I didn't see any special safety device(s) that would make what they were showing to be a safe practice.  That's the difference between these two videos.

Brice, the sawstops stops the blade from cutting someone's fingers.
This one stops the wood from pulling someone's fingers into the blade and much more.

If this is another unsafe video, the guy in the camera must be out of his mind to stay in front of the cut pieces while the blade is spinning.
Or, he must tested the setup many times before he take the video???

< Edited by Shane Holland to remove a video showing unsafe use of a tool - placing a finger under the saw base while it's running >

You keep saying that the ez system offers no safety devices or something like that.
Maybe the system needs no safety jigs or devices because is that safe?

Think of the rotation, reaction, reversed engineering and post your concerns at the other forum.
Don't just say that you did that with a tablesaw and nothing happened.
That was very unsafe and not my links to the safest woodworking videos.

Thank you all for your strong concerns.
I hope that we all learn something from this thread.

 

[tbellemare]

I hope that we all learn something from this thread.

I don't get it. What is the point of this? It seems pedantic at best and argumentative at worst?

Please forgive my assertions if I'm being dense...

Tom

 

[Corwin]

If my competition invents a solution to a problem that keeps 98%+ of pottential customers from buying all my "other" tools???
I will pay them to advertise in my forum.

Huh?

 

[JeromeM]

I hope that we all learn something from this thread.

What I have learned is that Dino is his own worst enemy.

Also the video is totally pointless.

EurekaZone is very much like Microsoft {get something that just about works, may be even is a good idea, then release it, then keep on trying to make it work as it should}
While Festool is like Apple {develop products and don't release them until they work really well then keep on trying to make them better}

An example is the "Transforming the tracksaw into a beam saw with the B-300 by Eurekazone" in that you will see that his product cuts the frame of the table unlike the MFT

EurekaZone product may work but the videos I have watched have shown what they can do but but in many cases no reason to want to do it.

Dino really needs to show why any one would want to do it. This is specially  true of the video that started this thread.

 

[mastercabman]

but what they showed in the video isn't a safe practice if ....

Then why not take down the sawstop video? Or do you  consider putting your finger in safer?

I am just reacting to the willingness of people here to either censor content, or call for it to be censored. I have never seen any board with so much censorship as here. And I think it is a very bad practice. In the culture where I am coming from all this stuff would be allowed without question. We are allowed to learn from both the good and the bad and put the ultimate responsibility into our own hands, and not in someone else's.

The Sawstop video clearly shows putting your finger in the blade's path to be safe with their saw.  The Sawstop video is promoting a very cleverly built and now, proven safety system, so I see no reason to remove that video.  With the EZ saw system I didn't see any special safety device(s) that would make what they were showing to be a safe practice.  That's the difference between these two videos.

Brice, the sawstops stops the blade from cutting someone's fingers.
This one stops the wood from pulling someone's fingers into the blade and much more.

If this is another unsafe video, the guy in the camera must be out of his mind to stay in front of the cut pieces while the blade is spinning.
Or, he must tested the setup many times before he take the video???
testing the upside down ez smart tablesaw.

You keep saying that the ez system offers no safety devices or something like that.
Maybe the system needs no safety jigs or devices because is that safe?

Think of the rotation, reaction, reversed engineering and post your concerns at the other forum.
Don't just say that you did that with a tablesaw and nothing happened.
That was very unsafe and not my links to the safest woodworking videos.

Thank you all for your strong concerns.
I hope that we all learn something from this thread.

I don't get it?    What is it with the 2 saws???? ??? ???
Even in this video,i feel like it is unsafe to use.

 

[Dane]

I'm not sure why this has not been pointed out before.  But "Kosta" is Dino.  Dino got banned a few years ago and shortly thereafter, "Kosta" appeared to interject the EZ talking points in any discussion that he could.  That is, unless some other internet personality with the exact same non-native English speaker idiosyncrasies as Dino just happens to be milling about the FOG acting as Eurekazone's spokesman.

This thread has gone on long enough in my mind. Dino, sorry "Kosta", is getting exactly what he wants by dragging it out and re-posting his video and getting as many hits to his videos and website as he can.  FOG members need to stop engaging and giving him free publicity.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

If this is another unsafe video, the guy in the camera must be out of his mind to stay in front of the cut pieces while the blade is spinning.
Or, he must tested the setup many times before he take the video???

This video was also removed for the same reasons.  I don't consider placing your finger under the base of a circular saw while it's running to be safe.  Please consider this a request not to post any more videos on this forum showing unsafe practices.  Thank you.

 

[mastercabman]

Also,anyone noticed how the trigger switch is taped ?  Call that safe?????

 

[Brice Burrell]

I'm not sure why this has not been pointed out before.  But "Kosta" is Dino.  Dino got banned a few years ago and shortly thereafter, "Kosta" appeared to interject the EZ talking points in any discussion that he could.  That is, unless some other internet personality with the exact same non-native English speaker idiosyncrasies as Dino just happens to be milling about the FOG acting as Eurekazone's spokesman.

This thread has gone on long enough in my mind. Dino, sorry "Kosta", is getting exactly what he wants by dragging it out and re-posting his video and getting as many hits to his videos and website as he can.  FOG members need to stop engaging and giving him free publicity.

Dane, I've suspected that for some time now. 

Sawstop it would appear is not a direct competitor with Festool . while Eurekazone is selling a similar product, products. Would you want your competition
advertising on your companies web site or Forum?

I think some of the newer guys here might understand why these threads end up getting us into trouble and/or get have gotten deleted in the past.  If we were talking about honest curiosity of a legit member it would be fine, blatant promotion by a competitor is another matter altogether.

 

[Jay Knoll]

Boy am I sick of the Eureka stuff.  I used to enjoy Saw Mill Creek until the Festool Eureka wars seems to rage daily, I stopped posting years ago and very very rarely visit. 

And now he's back flogging his stuff here?

I vote "block"

Jay

 

[ajones]

I'm not sure why this has not been pointed out before.  But "Kosta" is Dino.  Dino got banned a few years ago and shortly thereafter, "Kosta" appeared to interject the EZ talking points in any discussion that he could.  That is, unless some other internet personality with the exact same non-native English speaker idiosyncrasies as Dino just happens to be milling about the FOG acting as Eurekazone's spokesman.

This thread has gone on long enough in my mind. Dino, sorry "Kosta", is getting exactly what he wants by dragging it out and re-posting his video and getting as many hits to his videos and website as he can.  FOG members need to stop engaging and giving him free publicity.

He could get 10,000 hits I would not buy anything off them based on the casual disregard for safety and haphazard and dangerous way the tools are demo'd

 

[RONWEN]

Could someone please PM me a link to the "interesting video" so that I could watch it & see what all of the discussion is about?  I am over 21 and have taught 100's of industrial safety classes.

EDIT: Thanks, That's just plain sick.

 

[Mike B]

Please consider this a request not to post any more videos on this forum showing unsafe practices.  Thank you.

Shane, mate....

I'm sorry, you normally do a good job of moderating but frankly, your attitude to "unsafe" video's is naive at best, self-serving at worst. I'm more than a little alarmed that you think the members of this forum are unable to watch and learn from both safe and unsafe practices. How are people to learn if they cannot observe the right and wrong ways to complete a task. You are on a slippery slope of inconsistent moderation.

I'm not sure any educator worth their salt could get away with teaching people the correct way to do something without demonstrating/warning about the wrong ways as well. Why should this forum be any different? Woodworking is a practical undertaking and this is a practical forum. All demonstrations have their merit and are to be learned from, surely that a major part of why people use this forum? If anything these videos may often serve to demonstrate how Festool products can offer a safer way to complete the same job.

With regards to these particular videos, it seems to me there are some political issues with regards to the source and brands involved as well (certainly for some posters on this thread). However, if that's the case, just some out and admit it. I am more concerned with your desire for us to never post "unsafe" videos ever again. Perhaps you could just label the link as "unsafe" as a clear warning in future.

Sorry for the rant, I just really feel you've made a poor decision here.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Mike, I'm afraid you don't understand the issues involved here.  First, your being from Australia you don't understand the litigious nature of so many people in the US.  For this reason Festool has to be cautious in what is allowed to be shown here.  It is all too easy to be critical when you have nothing to lose.  Second, original poster is the owner of a competing company posting under an alias to promote his products on Festool's forum. That is out of line, way out of line.  I think this whole thread should be deleted. 

 

[Corwin]

...  I think this whole thread should be deleted.   

I have to agree.