Is it “original” or just copying?

[onocoffee]

I took a tour today at George Nakashima Woodworkers in New Hope, PA. It was awesome and I even got to see a glimpse of Mira Nakashima.

I like a lot of their work and I know that quite a few people make Conoid Chairs. I presume we would call those knock-offs, imitations, interpretations, etc. And my presumption is that is someone copies the work, it’s not as well regarded.

Is this because of the proximity to the lifespan of the designer? Or that the designer is known?

In comparison, I don’t think we call a Queen Anne or Chippendale, etc as “knockoffs”, correct? Those pieces can be build and lauded for the craftsmanship. But does the same apply to more recent designs?

I’m curious to hear your thoughts

 

[smorgasbord]

Well, Thomas Chippendale was a British furniture maker in the 1700's. Unlike George Nakashima, Chippendale published a book of his designs, and as a result other furniture makers started making those designs as well.
That said, I don't believe there is a design patent on the Conoid chair, and even if so, litigation would probably be prohibitively expensive and Mira probably gets all the work she wants anyway.

There's a lot of crazy pricing out there. Just look at the YouTubers selling their furniture for some crazy amounts, as if finding someone to make an epoxy river table is hard. For auctions, not being a document original greatly reduces the resale value, but many people won't care about that. As for Nakashima style furniture, I find that I spot many (probably not all, though) of the copies since they're not proportionally as well balanced.

 

[onocoffee]

Well, Thomas Chippendale was a British furniture maker in the 1700's. Unlike George Nakashima, Chippendale published a book of his designs, and as a result other furniture makers started making those designs as well.
That said, I don't believe there is a design patent on the Conoid chair, and even if so, litigation would probably be prohibitively expensive and Mira probably gets all the work she wants anyway.

There's a lot of crazy pricing out there. Just look at the YouTubers selling their furniture for some crazy amounts, as if finding someone to make an epoxy river table is hard. For auctions, not being a document original greatly reduces the resale value, but many people won't care about that. As for Nakashima style furniture, I find that I spot many (probably not all, though) of the copies since they're not proportionally as well balanced.

Not proportionally nor well balanced???

Well that certainly applies to my Concordia-ish chair, as I was able to see and sit in several examples yesterday. There was a lot I missed by only having pics to reference!

 

[smorgasbord]

I took a tour today at George Nakashima Woodworkers in New Hope, PA. It was awesome and I even got to see a glimpse of Mira Nakashima.

Do they still publish a price list like they did in the 1970s? I’m curious what their pieces go for today.

 

[Coen]

I'm of the side that thinks that if you don't want anyone else to copy your designs you should keep them out of the light.

 

[onocoffee]

Do they still publish a price list like they did in the 1970s? I’m curious what their pieces go for today.

Yes, they were kind enough to share with me their current price list - updated September 2024. It's quite extensive and the book notes: "Our furniture is customarily made in American Black Walnut or Cherry. For an additional charge, we have a limited supply of more rare an exotic woods available for table-tops."

Here's some of the MSRP listed:

Conoid Chair $4,500
Concordia Chair $4.500
Mira Chair $2,500 - $4,000 (L, M, H)

Then, if you wanted some variant on the Conoid Chair (add-on):
One piece Seat $800
One piece Figured $1,600

Other Highlights:
Conoid Coffee Table (ranges from 30-40"L x 40-50"W x 13"H) - $13,000 - $20,000
Conoid Desk (54-84"L x 30-36"L x 28.5"H) - $29,000 - $62,000
Conoid Dining Table (starting prices in sizes ranging 60"x36" to 96"x40") - $25,500 - $43,000
Conoid Cross-Leg Side Table (32"x21"x21") - $12,000

In addition to the Price List, there is an accompanying Process Book written by Mira Nakashima that's available for $35. There is also a version of the Process Book that is presented in a wood sleeve made by the woodworkers. I believe it is the most affordable entry into the Nakashima Woodworkers pieces and is priced at $1,000.

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks!
Any way you can scan and post a PDF? Or is there a link for remote people to see the price list and/or order the Process Book?

BTW, the Conoid chair at $4500 is twice what Thos Moser charges for its Edo chair and I think the Conoid is twice the Edo in design.

 

[onocoffee]

Thanks!
Any way you can scan and post a PDF? Or is there a link for remote people to see the price list and/or order the Process Book?

BTW, the Conoid chair at $4500 is twice what Thos Moser charges for its Edo chair and I think the Conoid is twice the Edo in design.

I'll try to work on that.

I looked it up and turns out the Process Book is available on their website for the same price as it was at the studios ($35), and it turns out I was wrong - the most affordable way to get a George Nakashima Woodworkers piece is with their solid black walnut Coaster for $40 (I missed out). I will also venture to guess that if you were to order the Process Book, they would be willing to include the Price List, as it is a rather nicely printed price list.

And I do agree, the Conoid is at least twice the Edo in design.

Books & Accents — George Nakashima Woodworkers

nakashimawoodworkers.com

 

[woodferret]

You can file design patents. GN never did for the conoid, likely because it wasn't that ornamental and distinguishable. You'd have to pass the novelty and non-obviousness standards. Once it became famous, the name stuck as a marker, so everyone tries to cache in on it saying it GN-style, like Ghibli-style is now a 'thing'. Even if the object in question is easily discernable from an original GN/Ghibli design, some people find that distasteful from an emotional level. Rationally, though, I don't care.

The family is still producing the designs. They can fight copycats using trademark and trade dress. That's what it's there for.

* I'll concede that this isn't a layman take since I'm a trained engineer and this was first year level coursework.