Is the Kapex tough? My experience to date.

Woodhack

Woodhack

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Joined
Feb 2, 2014
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33
In various comments sections you will alway find somebody saying this machine is for diy folks and other ignorant things.

Im here to tell ya that I have had this saw for 4-5 years now maybe more it can handle being used  like any tool.

Its small size, fairly large capacity and ease of use is priceless on the lift ESPECIALLY when tilting it for miters.

Couldn't do this with my old dewalt12"..

Anyway... just a quick drop in. Pictures are today out in the cold as ive been doing all month. Pretty building dont ya think?

I dont see my pictures in the preview. Im hoping they attached. Attaching pics was a huge fail last time i did a real long post and I wasted a ton of time. Thats why i stopped posting here. Nightmare to share experiences and ask questions. Gonna try again now

 

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I'm really glad you've had no issues with your Kapex.  That said, do you really believe that a sample size of one is really an indicator of overall product quality?
 
James Biddle said:
I'm really glad you've had no issues with your Kapex.  That said, do you really believe that a sample size of one is really an indicator of overall product quality?
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Sample size of one is bad, yes. But also remember, you can't use number of folks posting when their "item X" fails on the internet either.  The failure rates of products looks far worse than reality since people will be quick to post when it goes wrong, but for all those who it just works, don't say much.

No one outside festool knows how many Kapex have been sold, and how many warranty claims have been against it.  The internet has a way of making issues look far worse than they are.  The Kapex very well has an issue, or at the very least it has a bad reputation for failures.  But only Festool knows if they failure rate is out of line with the engineering expectation on failure rate.

In the end, a very large portion of people who had Kapex failures probably showed up here or similar websites to post there issue.  A small portion of those folks who have bought Kapex will have showed up here or similar websites to post about their ownership of a Kapex.

 
DeformedTree said:
But also remember, you can't use number of folks posting when their "item X" fails on the internet either.  The failure rates of products looks far worse than reality since people will be quick to post when it goes wrong, but for all those who it just works, don't say much.
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True, but how many people on the same forum complained about their OF1400 smoking, or TS55 armature replaced three times? I've seen people reporting two, three Kapex failures in a row. Now, consider that OF1400 or TS55 likely outsell Kapex 10 to 1 and do the math. We are not talking about absolute numbers but failure rate relative to other motorized tools. Anecdotal evidence may lack scientific rigour, but should not be dismissed.
 
Svar said:
DeformedTree said:
But also remember, you can't use number of folks posting when their "item X" fails on the internet either.  The failure rates of products looks far worse than reality since people will be quick to post when it goes wrong, but for all those who it just works, don't say much.
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True, but how many people on the same forum complained that their OF1400 burned down? I've seen people reporting two, three Kapex failures in a row. Now, consider that OF1400 likely outsells Kapex 10 to 1 and do the math. We are not talking about absolute numbers but failure rate relative to other motorized tools. Anecdotal evidence may lack scientific rigour, but should not be dismissed.
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Agreed,  I think Kapex has a problem.  Just need people to always remember the situation is in generally not as bad as it would seem based on internet postings. 

It's good to here some people have had good long service lifes with their Kapex. 
 
DeformedTree said:
Agreed,  I think Kapex has a problem.  Just need people to always remember the situation is in generally not as bad as it would seem based on internet postings. 
It's good to here some people have had good long service lifes with their Kapex.
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BTW, I think that even with a problem some people may see it as a good investment. If, due to its bells and whistles, it saved you many hours of fiddling and cleanup and earned customer satisfaction and referrals, then it has payed for itself. Even if its life is presumably reduced.
 
Hi!

Your post is highly appreciated! Thanks for showing some onsite pictures, and rather rare: a Kapex on a lift - looks like a really interesting building. Love the oriel!

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
The Kapex is a terrific saw and it's portability on the UG stand as well as the miter adjustment you mentioned are unique features and quite valuable.  But we Kapex owners also now understand that along with those features we own a saw that has a propensity to let out the smoke without any prior warning.  As you observe we are not in a position to understand the odds of this failure, but the ongoing drumbeat of regular anecdotal failure reports along with Festool's deafening silence after several years of these reports have fueled the paranoia of Kapex owners.  After spending many times the cost of competitive SCMS being left in this position does not build owner enthusiasm!
 
[member=28389]Woodhack[/member]

Thank you for sharing your experience and for the pictures. I'd love to see a picture of the finish result on the facade  [big grin]

I have the Kapex for ~10 months and have read a lot about failures on the FOG. Because of that I take extra care of the saw, i plunge the blade gently, push it slowly and steady, and most importantly wait for it to stop before releasing the unit. I do a monthly maintenance keeping it clean, especially the top vent. I even thought of a deflector to prevent the dust to get into the head. Perhaps a 3D printing project  [wink]

I use the saw weekly, making about 20-30 cuts per. The blade is still sharp as it was when unboxing. That being said I am glad the saw work like day one.  [smile]
 
I have done more cutting with the removable fences off in the last 6 months than I have for probably the rest of the time going back to 2010.  If you are beveling the saw head (versus swinging the table and mitering) than the moveable heads get in the way. 

Peter
 
James Biddle said:
I'm really glad you've had no issues with your Kapex.  That said, do you really believe that a sample size of one is really an indicator of overall product quality?
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The OP is just stating that the Kapex works for him.  I love the pictures of it mounted to a lift!  I carry my HKC55 on a lift to do exterior with acceptable results in some applications, others I use a ground cut station.

No, sample size of one is not always an indicator of overall product quality.  In some cases a sample size of 10,000 is not an indicator of overall quality either.  The plural of anecdote is not data.  As I read various forums I keep in mind that silence is really an indicator of satisfaction.  Folks normally only comment when they are in some way disappointed.

In my case I have not bought a Kapex simply due to its cost.  The Dewalt FlexVolt best meets my needs.  I've used a Kapex and really like it, purchasing one just was not in the budget at the time. 

 
Mine have been off for 7 years except one time. Also I misplaced them for a few years. Now the reside in my pick up right next to the spare plug it cord.
Rick.
 
I have been reading the posts on the Kapex over the years. I went through a couple Kapexs in the initial release due to the binding problem. Which has now  been resolved. I moved to a different saw as I could not wait. I am a Mechanical engineer so I am afflicted with the usual problem that engineers seem to have. Fiddling. In this case I have wondered if the problem with the Kapex is that the duty cycle or use cycle  are sufficiently divergent enough from the track saws so that the electronics are failing due to the "pulse" nature of the use. Something that the track saws do not have. I have tracked my use of the chop saw and tracks saws. While obvious, the difference in the power cycle is vast. This leads me to believe that if you were to try and apply the same control methodologies learned from the track saw to chop saw, especially one with the electronic control that is present on the Kapex, you could have problems, especially in the long term. To the point that they may not be caught in the R&D phase of bring a product to market. This is not an excuse, simply an observation. If this is true than allowing the chop saw to achieve steady state, then making your cut and than allowing the blade to come to rest would mitigate most of the problem. With a little test bench testing "borrowed KApex from a friend" I have found that if you do this, the behavior found on the oscilloscope  closely matches that of the track saw, which do not seem to have this problem. It would also explain the period from purchase and failure. Also this might be why people are having different experiences, in terms of durability. the closer the use reflects the track saw the better the longevity.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Good points you bring up [member=2242]tallgrass[/member]. However the other brands of miter saws do not suffer from  this issue of pre mature failure.
 
This is true, however I am not aware of other saws that are variable speed and have the same torque and speed control parameters. This adds complexity to the control of the saw that others do not have. This means of control may not be tolerant to certain use regimes.  Again I am not suggesting this is ok, simply suggesting that the operation of the saw requires more care to correspond to best practices. I think it is the pulsing of the system and under load combined with the frequency at which this happens may be playing havoc with the control system. A problem or sensitivity that takes time to manifest.  I think best practices are to allow the blade to come to steady state , make cut and then allow the blade to come to a complete stop. I have heard chop saw pulsed almost like a DJ at a night club. "sarcasm" where the blade has made its cut and the trigger is let go before the blade as even come up to speed. Granted tools must allow for some abuse but maybe this type of control is intolerant of this over the years. The relative rarity of this may speak to this.
 
But what benefit does variable  speed offer?  Perhaps cutting metal?
Maybe too many features is not  a good thing if it comes at the expense of reliability.
 
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